VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #7

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bakerlady said:
Lost for a whole hour? You would think she would have called a friend in that time to ask for directions/help.
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She told the friend she was at the party with that she was going home and didn't need him to walk with her, right?

I wonder if she did in fact go back to her apartment, and went back out when it was time to find the second party, the one she got lost trying to get to?
 
sophiebelle said:
Not sure if the POI has talked to LE or not, but if you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing. Look at all the people who have spent the weekend looking for Hannah. Many have never heard of her before this. Then we have someone who has info, and to my knowledge has not told what he knows. That's a shame. I think with all eyes on this case, he would be treated more fairly than someone who is quietly charged/set up and convicted. I think many of those unfairly convicted people were done so before forensics became so prevalent. Not all, but many. Just my personal thoughts.
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that's not true. if you have nothing to hide, you lawyer up. there are many many ways things can go wrong, and many ways your words can be twisted. you need to protect yourself. cops are legally allowed to lie to you to get you to say a certain thing. talk to a lawyer. they've seen everything and will tell you how it is. you don't talk to LE without a lawyer when you're very associated with a case. period.
 
Where was Hannah all the time between when she left her male friend to "go home" and when she showed up on video at McGrady's? Obviously she did lie at least once that night, about going home when based on all other accounts she was intending to go party with her other friends. So, where did she go before McGrady's?
 
elmomom said:
Where was Hannah all the time between when she left her male friend to "go home" and when she showed up on video at McGrady's? Obviously she did lie at least once that night, about going home when based on all other accounts she was intending to go party with her other friends. So, where did she go before McGrady's?
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This.

There is a big gap in time.
 
carbuff said:
She told the friend she was at the party with that she was going home and didn't need him to walk with her, right?

I wonder if she did in fact go back to her apartment, and went back out when it was time to find the second party, the one she got lost trying to get to?
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bakerlady said:
View attachment 59537

According to the video Hannah Approached McGrady's from Preston, crossed Grady, approached the doorman, and then left the bar headed in the same direction from which she came, on Preston.

She must have done quite a bit of walking after leaving the party to get to Preston street. She could have traveled a much more efficient route. Or maybe she stopped somewhere else between 11:50 and 12:46.
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According to this map she still should have approached the bar from the other direction. She seems to have gone completely out of the way. Drunk and confused, maybe. Wen't somewhere else first, maybe.
 
otto said:
Imagine if everyone that saw Hannah, or had surveillance of her, insisted on having a lawyer prior to giving information to police. What kind of crazy world would that be?
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He was the last person seen with Hannah and has been identified as a POI, I think that is a little different than just any ordinary observer. I would never talk to the police without competent legal counsel advising me in such a situation. He never has to talk to the police or testify if he is brought to trial. That is our system. He has a right to remain silent.
 
If he knows she was never in his car or apartment, I can see him waiting for LE to clear him. I know some people are getting annoyed if race is mentioned but it is a very real issue in America, like it not not, Imo. LE has already told the public that LE has had contact or that is known to LE, making him sound like a hardened criminal, Imo. I would wait until LE contacts him and then go in with my lawyer.
 
netsleuth said:
He was the last person seen with Hannah and has been identified as a POI, I think that is a little different than just any ordinary observer. I would never talk to the police without competent legal counsel advising me in such a situation. He never has to talk to the police or testify if he is brought to trial. That is our system. He has a right to remain silent.
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I would, but then again I have nothing to hide to start with. Apparently neither did the other witness who voluntarily came forward and called police.

IMO JLM had several days to contact a lawyer. A competent lawyer would have offered to represent him immediately especially given the high profile and emotional nature of this case involving UVA and Charlottesville. Lots of free publicity and plenty of prestige amongst his law buddies.

A competent lawyer would have also advised him that it was in his best interest to voluntarily submit to police questioning, with his lawyers present, instead of making the police come looking for him with a search warrant as well.

I can only think of one reason why he didnt contact police and didnt contact a lawyer and thats because he was hoping he wouldnt be caught.
 
Seems to me that if LE has discovered that that HG indeed WAS in his car AND he has directly told LE that she was NOT, then they would be much closer to considering him to be a suspect. For now, he is a POI. We heard on Friday, that they really want to talk to him. Perhaps they have, by now. But a DailyMail report about his granny saying that she heard from his mother that he said HG was not in his car, is not quite the same as HIM saying that to investigators............so let's just see what the press conference reveals. JMO
 
lateott said:
Are you thinking what you would do? Or are you imagining what he is thinking?

From JMs perspective, if he is innocent, they already took his car, ransacked his house, drove him from it, accused him of driving away with her (and therefore being responsible for her being missing.) All this without him saying a word. What if he thinks it could get worse from here?

I don't think clamming up is the ethical thing to do, but I can sure understand it!
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Agreed! Several years ago I was accused of something (very, very minor in comparison to what happened here) that I did not do, and unless you are in that situation, you can't say how you would react. For me, it was by far the most frightening thing that has ever happened to me. For someone, especially police, to be SO SURE you did something that you know never even happened is just terrifying especially if it could affect your life and future.

Basically, I was driving home from work and was pulled over for running a light. No big deal, right? I don't know why or how, but this cop was SO sure that he had seen me throw something out my window (in his opinion, drugs). While I knew the police wouldn't find anything, your mind races. He accused me of lying to his face, told me he would spend all night out there looking for the drugs, there were multiple officers in the street with flashlights, and he said he even reviewed his dash cam and could clearly see it. How could he see something that never, ever even happened? What if he found a freakin crack pipe someone else had dropped? It shook me to my core. They never found anything, I knew they wouldn't, but I have never ever trusted police the same since, if at all. That cop was so certain in his mind, but as the person he was accusing, I knew without a shadow of a doubt that it hadn't happened.

I tell you this because you have no idea what this guy is thinking if he didn't have anything to do with it. And as a young, white female, I can say I can't even imagine what African American males go through in relation to their interactions with the cops. They are in jail at rates exponentially higher than any other and if I were him but didn't do it, I'd be careful as hell about what I say or do. Just saying you really have to protect yourself sometimes, because no one else is looking out for you. However, I of course still wish that if he's innocent, that he had just gone to police straight away.
 
tiredblondy said:
Forgive me if this has been posted before as I have not been able to keep up-but-if the POI was involved with Morgan Harrington they do have DNA to compare for her case so I suspect that would be one reason LE feel secure in identifying him as a POI.(if dna was identified that is) IF that is the case, we would not know yet. This is just my opinion only.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dna-links-abduction-morgan-harrington/story?id=12080850
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Claudia said:
If they have the POI's DNA (which I don't believe they do) and it matched the DNA from the sexual assault and MH's case, he wouldn't be a POI, he'd be in jail.
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Yes you are right. My post was not clear because my head is not clear today. I see what you mean. Sorry wonder if they got a warrant to collect his DNA? I also wonder what they found in his car and residence to lead the to call him a POI.
 
Skigirl said:
I also think that a lot of people are trouble imagining her being lost because they have a good sense of direction and haven't had that experience of feeling like you know where you're going, when actually you are going in entirely the wrong direction.
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Here's another example. Last night I went out to dinner with my parents and my wife. I parked in a parking garage and everyone else walked on ahead while I stopped at the payment machine. When I got out to the sidewalk, I found them heading in the opposite direction of the restaurant. Although we don't live in this city, we've all been here many times previously, and we'd also been to this particular restaurant. Yet they were all adamant that they were going the right way. I had to find and point to a street sign before they'd believe me. Human beings are very adept at believing what they want to believe.
 
lateott said:
Van Dyck is wrong in his speculative statement. She knows her way around her apartment and around campus. She is a runner. She runs away from her apartment, probably in different directions, and then she runs back to it. Runners are very good at finding their way back, even when visiting new places. Because a cop gets lost there doesn't mean she gets lost there.

I think she may have been lost at certain intermediate points in between her apartment and McGrady's, or by the Shell station. But the media (and maybe LE) is really conflating the lost and disoriented thing.

She wasn't lost all night.
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Some runners (myself included) have a horrible sense of direction. I almost missed a graduate school interview because I went on a run and got confused in a warren den of streets within a few blocks of where I was staying. When I was in college, the area I used to run to from my apartment was in a different direction from downtown and I basically went some variation (shorter or longer loop) of the same route each time to avoid getting lost. It takes me years to develop a good mental map of an area, and my expertise is in memory -- you'd think I'd figure out a way! I agree that she wasn't lost every single moment, but I think she could have been having that experience of thinking she knew where she was going, then realizing she wasn't where she thought, then doubling back a little, then getting confused again.
 
Oh great. I'm going to be out for the press conference. I'm going to come back and be two threads behind again :p
 
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