VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #8

[Eileen730]

But their cars had not been taken,their homes searched and LE was not on TV talking about how he was "known to police" etc...not exactly the same thing, Imo.

Because she was seen after with JM..why would they search their cars?

 

[Skigirl]

Well, the WG's description had to have been deliberate. Either that or WG was lying, which I think is equally possible. I can't believe that someone who could spot a "distressed" female from some metres away could mistake a man with a big dreadlock hairdo (half-up?) for a man with a shaved head. He was walking right behind him for at least a couple of minutes.

I don't know much about anything, but I am supposedly an expert on human memory, and I can tell you that memory isn't like like looking back at a photograph. Memory is reconstructed from various features that you recall, and is very easily influenced by a lot of factors, including visual features that may be in spatial proximity (the pants that Hannah was wearing were black), the way the questions are asked, and so forth. The gentleman that offered his description may not have seen very well because it was dark, or may have not seen signs of hair at the top of the POI's head, and may have encoded that as "no hair sticking up" and recalling that may have said "bald". It was also some days later and his attention may have been focused more on Hannah.

An exercise a lot of people do when they teach a unit on false memory is have someone run in at the beginning of class and do something and then ask the students after some time (fifteen minutes or so) about the person who came in. Students can rarely say much about the person with any kind of accuracy, down to what clothes or what color hair. Leading questions are especially effective at bringing out misinformation.

 

[Heathery]

If those are clothes or towels in the back of his car and not a reflection in the glass, would that be enough to get a warrant to search his apartment?

 

[carbuff]

I think it's either really specific or they really have no idea. Can't make up my mind which!

Yeah, I can wholeheartedly agree with this.

 

[otto]

It just occurred to me that police said that JM was East of Charlottesville when he fled the overt police surveillance. I'm guessing that he was visiting his grandmother when this happened.

 

[missgulfsouth]

He is not a POI because he did not come forward. He is a POI because he is the last known person to be with her.

Correct. But by evading them, he has made it a lot harder on himself publicly.

 

[missgulfsouth]

If those are clothes or towels in the back of his car and not a reflection in the glass, would that be enough to get a warrant to search his apartment?

Why would clothing or towels be cause for a search warrant of either his car or his apartment?

 

[katiewonders]

LE has said they have witnesses who saw someone get in that car, out of the car and back into the car, but nothing else, no ID of the person(s). LE said they have no info about HG after they left the bar.

I would say that, if a person enters a restaurant/pub/bar (Tango) with someone, it isn't really surprising that that person leaves the restaurant with the same person. The question is, what happens after they leave. It seems that no one has information about them, together, after exiting Tango. Is that correct?

 

[absentia]

Me, too...especially since locals have indicated that it is a small, intimate, relatively quiet, upscale place with just a handful of tables. 6' tall strawberry blonde girl in a shiny top with 275# BDLG in his white shorts and shirt are not patrons that would be easily forgotten by staff or other patrons.
Then, again, perhaps they have already talked with police and have been instructed to keep quiet...and actually are.

strawberry blonde?

 

[iCantRead]

Well, the WG's description had to have been deliberate. Either that or WG was lying

No, you are creating a false dilemma. The WG could have remembered incorrectly or simply witnessed the situation wrongly. There are more options than just WG is lying or LE is releasing false information on purpose. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously inaccurate and leads to false descriptions frequently.

 

[cluciano63]

Everyone says he knew she was missing, but we do not know that for a fact, do we? What if he did not know? What if he does not watch TV. Or if he had heard about some college girl missing, her never heard a name or saw a photo? Maybe Hannah never said she was a UVA student. What if the first he knew about it was the cops on his porch? I would freak out and probably get a lawyer. And then with the (Imo ridiculous) tone of the PC, would not dare talk to LE even if I knew they would find nothing in my car or home.

Probably he knew...but probably is not proof he knew, Imo.

 

[trixandhoney]

JM seems to have family support on his side. IIRC, Chief Longo said he came to the police station with "several family members". So maybe they will help him do the right thing - tell police what he knows.

 

[Lava]

Correct. But by evading them, he has made it a lot harder on himself publicly.

Only if people ignore the fact that people should always have a lawyer. It still did not make him a POI.
i

 

[otto]

He is not a POI because he did not come forward. He is a POI because he is the last known person to be with her.

We don't know that. Perhaps he dropped her off somewhere. If he did, he needs to tell police where he dropped her off so they can pick up the video surveillance trail. One things seems very clear: they did not part ways after leaving Tempo because there is no more surveillance video of her anywhere in that area.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

LE has said they have witnesses who saw someone get in that car, out of the car and back into the car, but nothing else, no ID of the person(s). LE said they have no info about HG after they left the bar.

I don't recall this and I would like to read it... can you post a link? Thanks!

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

 

[Z&BsMommy]

Yes, he can be charged with obstruction of justice. If any of his friends were complicit in any way to a crime committed, they can likewise be charged.

Just wanted to say thank you for your input [emoji5]

 

[Lava]

Everyone says he knew she was missing, but we do not know that for a fact, do we? What if he did not know? What if he does not watch TV. Or if he had heard about some college girl missing, her never heard a name or saw a photo? Maybe Hannah never said she was a UVA student. What if the first he knew about it was the cops on his porch? I would freak out and probably get a lawyer. And then with the (Imo ridiculous) tone of the PC, would not dare talk to LE even if I knew they would find nothing in my car or home.

Probably he knew...but probably is not proof he knew, Imo.

Nope, we have no idea if he knew. Heck, my fiance just asked me "Is there some lunatic loose in PA?" and I busted out laughing. Some people just don't follow the news at all.

 

[cluciano63]

No, you are creating a false dilemma. The WG could have remembered incorrectly or simply witnessed the situation wrongly. There are more options than just WG is lying or LE is releasing false information on purpose. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously inaccurate and leads to false descriptions frequently.

I wish LE would talk about how they cleared WG, just to show they at least considered him. Jmo

 

[Heathery]

The possibility of him fleeing? Or maybe saying they think they see something suspicious in the pile?

 

[Lava]

We don't know that. Perhaps he dropped her off somewhere. If he did, he needs to tell police where he dropped her off so they can pick up the video surveillance trail. One things seems very clear: they did not part ways after leaving Tempo because there is no more surveillance video of her anywhere in that area.

BBM - We don't even know if she was in his car.