VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #8

[raeann]

Omg, I hadn't heard about her saying someone was stalking her. Sorry I'm somewhat behind on some of the earlier finer points of this case--but could someone fill me in on that deet? (Very interesting--and chilling.) Thanks!

This is most likely being COMPLETELY misinterpreted! When she posted that he was "following" her..... it most likely meant he was following her TWITTER account! Not as in stalking or following her in person!

 

[franco]

This is bothering me:
If JM showed up at LE asking for a lawyer, did they get him one? Why did he feel the need to speed off?

I've never seen anything quite like this case and LE's response. Part of me wonders if there is something much bigger at play here.

If so...could they be putting all of this public heat on JM to try to get him to rat out someone else?

To me it seems like bad police work not other conspiracy. I think they are grasping at straws without even enough of evidence to arrest him yet. They need to wait till the forensics from the car and apartment to come back and shut up about the rest till then.

 

[SleepingBark]

not when your lost for 2 hours lol , cant be any worse than wondering around for a couple of hours. I never had an issue with google maps always gets me there.

True, but not everyone is equally direction savvy. Personally, I've wound up having to take longer routes in which the allotted time could have been cut in half. I've generally found this out upon asking someone. Or, I don't want to make it appear obvious I'm uncertain/lost. Makes me feel vulnerable in public sometimes when traveling solo. Not saying that second part was her same issue..just sayin'.

 

[Lava]

Yeah if she was seriously worried about him I don't think she would've just sent a tweet like that..

Yep.


Now, going off the deep end here, and probably wasting time (lol)...it would be fun to know what the discussion was about. Did it get heated? Was the over-eager kid actually mad? Did they have some psychological problems? Who knows. Not anything I'd expect to actually be a part of this case, but interesting to let your head go there for a second.

 

[absentia]

11:50PM Hannah left a party on 14th St Northwest.

11:49-12:45 No one knows where she was.

12:46 She was seen at McGrady's.

If she had left at 11:50 and walked to McGrady's she would have arrived around 12am and would have entered the view of the camera on the left side of the screen.

Somehow, someway she ended up on the opposite side of McGrady's.

View attachment 59596

View attachment 59598

[video=youtube;EbceiUIHkbQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbceiUIHkbQ[/video]

However she certainly arrived at 12:46 from the right side of the screen, walking up Preston (which turns into Grady). She is stumbling.

She walks up and peeks inside the patio area. She then walks towards the door and proceeds to stumble off of the sidewalk. She is visibly inebriated. In physical distress.

She then proceeds to walk back the way she came on Preston, towards the downtown mall.

She would have had to walk completely out of the way through neighborhoods and side streets in order to reach Preston and arrive at McGrady's.

But a whole hour passed and no one has a clue what she was doing in that time. All we know is she arrived at Mcgrady's, got turned away, and then sprinted down Preston street and eventually slowed back down to a walk right in front of the Shell station.

I want to know where the heck was she for that hour? Did she stop by someone else's house and did they server her more booze? Perhaps those people are afraid to come forward?

Did she run down to the mall on some other street and and then run back up Preston?

Did she meet up with ANYONE?

Or are we to believe she was wandering around her neighborhood for an hour, alone, and not one person noticed a thin,pretty, 6 foot tall girl in tight pants and a crop top?

exactly. Longo said it today - she "had her world turned around, which is what I believe happened" after dinner and the early party. So what does that mean? they believe she was drugged?

 

[TravelingBug]

Well...pff:banghead:

:laughing:

The good news for the mods is that after another or day or two of these ridiculous media claims of huge news, none of us will be able to think straight to read or post here because of all the head banging we're doing.

Last night it was the exclusive "interview with someone close to the POI" who rode the bus with him 14 years ago and hasn't been in touch since basically...

Today it's Coy and his breaking news that negotiations were going on and JM was going to turn himself in.

:scared:

It seems like it's right around what's usually JVM or NG's showtimes when we get "bombshell tonight" (over old or erroneous news then usually also!) when this has happened the last two days. Thankfully it was the weekend and they weren't on.

But it's REALLY going to get nutty tomorrow if we get another overblown, exaggerated, or just made up news "teaser" as breaking news around the same time...because if it's shortly before or during JVM or NG's showtimes, they'll escalate it even more. LOL

 

[franco]

True, but not everyone is equally direction savvy. Personally, I've wound up having to take longer routes in which the allotted time could have been cut in half. I've generally found this out upon asking someone. Or, I don't want to make it appear obvious I'm uncertain/lost. Makes me feel vulnerable in public sometimes when traveling solo. Not saying that second part was her same issue..just sayin'.

yeah I meant she should have used siri or google maps when she was lost. You do not even need to think just listen to the voice . it tells you all you need to know to get home.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

This is most likely being COMPLETELY misinterpreted! When she posted that he was "following" her..... it most likely meant he was following her TWITTER account! Not as in stalking or following her in person!

Very good point!

 

[absentia]

Yep.


Now, going off the deep end here, and probably wasting time (lol)...it would be fun to know what the discussion was about. Did it get heated? Was the over-eager kid actually mad? Did they have some psychological problems? Who knows. Not anything I'd expect to actually be a part of this case, but interesting to let your head go there for a second.

I noticed that too. made me wonder.

 

[absentia]

yeah I meant she should have used siri or google maps when she was lost. You do not even need to think just listen to the voice . it tells you all you need to know to get home.

Siri can be cruel. :gaah:

 

[GhostGhost]

I think his money goes to going out drinking he is considered a familiar face in that scene. So those drinks add up. He might have a drinking problem but who knows.

I think you are on to something. Some type of problem. He had garnishments from unpaid debts.

What if he was packed up to flee (at his Apt) or even the psychology of thinking, I won't be living around here in a couple days. Something Cops in Ocean resort cities have seen.

 

[DocBrew]

I can speculate sometimes google maps is an annoyance to use, if I'm correctly thinking of the interactive gps feature.

Heh. Google Maps causes me to get lost. Only works about half the time, in my experience.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

Yeah if she was seriously worried about him I don't think she would've just sent a tweet like that..

I agree, but truly, I don't think most of us would ever imagine that an innocuous, harmless-seeming person we'd already talked to was now following us with the intention of killing or raping us. And Hannah was clearly not a paranoid type, or she wouldn't have been wandering around alone at night. So I don't really think the wording or tone of her tweet means much.

 

[cluciano63]

Average base income for a medical transporter is listed as roughly 25k at the link below.

http://www1.salary.com/Patient-Transporter-Salary.html

IMO thats more than enough to afford a decent used car. The fact that his job consists of driving, yet a dependable car wasnt a priority for him, makes me wonder what he was spending his money on.

Maybe drugs that arent easily traceable or drinking to excess?

Leaving the police station like he did, knowing that police were probably following him and driving recklessly regardless, lends a certain amount of credence to the above theory as well.

I dont see his actions of late as belonging to a sane, sober or mentally stable person and if he is innocent then he needs to slow down and think about how his actions are being perceived and how they are hurting his defense.

From a 45 year olds perspective the condition of his car and the fact that he's still renting at 33 years old doesnt say much for stability or having his stuff together either.

JMO

$25k translates to probably less than $22k after taxes...that is not a lot of money, Imo. Car payments are $300-500 a month, plus insurance etc. anyway...why does it matter? Do you have any idea how many people in their thirties rent? I don't understand your post at all. Jmo

 

[SleepingBark]

yeah I meant she should have used siri or google maps when she was lost. You do not even need to think just listen to the voice . it tells you all you need to know to get home.

Yes, I know what you're referring to. The little blue or yellow man that speaks with google maps, hasn't always been 100% reliable imo. Sometimes it won't even load one's current location. I get your point though.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

This is most likely being COMPLETELY misinterpreted! When she posted that he was "following" her..... it most likely meant he was following her TWITTER account! Not as in stalking or following her in person!

Oh! Well, that's very different. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[zapped]

I have been thinking about the stance that a lot of folks here have taken about "if he has nothing to hide, why not talk to the cops" and "if he doesn't have an alibi, he must be guilty".

I am a middle aged+ school teacher with a squeaky clean record and a child who is an attorney. I don't even drink or smoke, I certainly don't do drugs, and, truly -- I have nothing to hide. The most I have ever had over the past 35+ adult years has been a speeding ticket here and there -- and then, only a few miles over -- not reckless driving, not anything big. Maybe it's because my child is an attorney and I have a different perspective than some, but I would never speak with LE without being "lawyered up". Heck, my child has told me never to even let cops search your car -- even with nothing to hide -- without a warrant. You know, how they say, "Do you mind if I take a peek inside?" Don't ever let them without a warrant is what my child has told me. Just for my own protection.

Just my two cents for what they're worth.

Respectfully snipped for relevance to reply.

My question is why didnt he contact an attorney before today? Surely he was aware that the police were looking for him and that it would be in his best interests to turn himself in with an attorney present........ rather than wait for the police to show up with search warrants in the middle of the night.

Plenty of lawyers in C-Ville who would be willing to take this on pro-bono due to the high profile nature of this case...not to mention all of the media attention and prestige among colleagues.

To me that speaks volumes about JLMs mental state, lack of sympathy for Hannah and his honesty or lack thereof.

 

[msteach]

I emailed a friend of mine who is an HR recruiter at a regional hospital (not as big as UVA hospital, but also in a bigger market with a higher cost of living. She said that they start their patient transporters off at about $8 per hour (= $16k +/- before taxes) and that most don't make more than $10 per hour. As she said, "It's not a career track position" -- so the odds of a patient transporter making $25k -- in Virginia, a right to work state, she thought was pretty unrealistic. She also said that those salary websites are not even close to accurate in most cases.

The other thing that folks are saying re: his car and how he should be able to afford something nicer. Don't forget his laundry list of traffic violations. If he is carrying auto insurance as required by state law, he is probably paying a pretty high premium based upon that driving record. And he may have trouble getting a car loan and/or affording payments between his likely low salary and likely high insurance premiums.

Someone commented earlier that they know servers who drive nicer cars than this guy has. Between the comments made by his friends and acquaintances in interviews and on FB implying that he is "slow", plus his job, plus his likely car insurance -- after taxes and benefits, he may just be barely making ends meet.

Average base income for a medical transporter is listed as roughly 25k at the link below.

http://www1.salary.com/Patient-Transporter-Salary.html

IMO thats more than enough to afford a decent used car. The fact that his job consists of driving, yet a dependable car wasnt a priority for him, makes me wonder what he was spending his money on.

Maybe drugs that arent easily traceable or drinking to excess?

Leaving the police station like he did, knowing that police were probably following him and driving recklessly regardless, lends a certain amount of credence to the above theory as well.

I dont see his actions of late as belonging to a sane, sober or mentally stable person and if he is innocent then he needs to slow down and think about how his actions are being perceived and how they are hurting his defense.

From a 45 year olds perspective the condition of his car and the fact that he's still renting at 33 years old doesnt say much for stability or having his stuff together either.

JMO

 

[absentia]

Weird, I pretty much just wrote this exact same post. Are replying to me? http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...sville-13-Sept-2014-8&p=10992255#post10992255



I think she may have left the party, and

hit Grady Street, then turned Left. (This would be OK)

She then Hit Rugby Rd and took a wrong turn.

She turns Right on Rugby and then Walks until she hits the corner of another Rugby and Preston.

So Preston is actually also another Rugby.

SHe then turnes right on another Rugby, which turns into Preston

Then she walks along Preston so she is unable to view street signs indicating the streets numbers are going down.

SHe then finds herself in an area full of Prestons and Gravys.

It seems like a terrible street naming convention, and the road layout is so confusing, I have to wonder if they were initially based on indian trails. Because they certainly aren't based on a standard square plat map grid.


I swear there was a longer shell video, and it shows her not just walking by once, but walking by and stopping, then going back, and then turning around again.

I just cant help put think she is really disoriented, and she is desperately looking for a pattern of rising street numbers, which would indicate to her that she is heading home.

the police also believe she had her "world turned around", as if it was done to her. I think they know she was drugged. did she really walk back and forth in front of the shell station changing directions? I didn't see that.

 

[Heroine]

This is bothering me:
If JM showed up at LE asking for a lawyer, did they get him one? Why did he feel the need to speed off?

I've never seen anything quite like this case and LE's response. Part of me wonders if there is something much bigger at play here.

If so...could they be putting all of this public heat on JM to try to get him to rat out someone else?

That's exactly what I was thinking! You took the words right out of my mouth. That PC definitely made it sound like Longo was sending a message to someone.