VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #8

[cluciano63]

Thanks for the FB breakdown South Fishy and welcome...
I pretty much agree with all you've said.
You need to watch the PC from today. It was pretty...unique. Made me very nervous about whether or not this case will ever go to trial, or Hannah will ever be found. If JM had ideas of cooperating, he probably won't now, Imo.

 

[TravelingBug]

They still don't have enough to detain him on Hannah's disappearance if I have understood everything correctly. What I questioned earlier was why they didn't just take him in for questioning when they got the search warrant for his car. They said they spoke with JM at that time. Questioning at police headquarters might have resulted in a lot more information. (It might not have, either.) I just have wondered why they didn't try.

I'm not sure we know either way on if they actually did try?

Perhaps they asked and he said no (and they've chosen to not release that at this point)

 

[WhitegateGirl]

I also want to say that I'm a twentysomething woman who goes to bars alone and this case is making me feel ill when I look back at all of the dumb stuff I've done when drinking. A few weeks ago I walked 12 miles (yes, seriously) home at 2 AM because I missed the last bus home. It was dark, obviously, and some places had no sidewalk. It was incredibly stupid and it's not the only thing I've done when drunk only to regret it later.

(For what it's worth, a VERY sweet male colleague was completely horrified when I told him this story. He made me PROMISE that if anything similar ever happened again, I'd call him for a ride regardless of how late it was. If ONLY Hannah had a person like him!)

Whew, I don't even know you, helpful, and reading this gives me shivers. Glad nothing happened. Hannah was apparently not so fortunate.

 

[MvD]

Some things are just not making sense to me... I don't for a second believe LE aren't fully aware of JM's whereabouts, yet the press conference kinda made it seem like they didn't. Did police ever release info on make/model of vehicle JM was last spotted in? If not, that's also odd... If they are actively looking for him. since a warrant for his arrest was issued, LE could go get him immediately..why haven't they?

 

[equanimous]

since the first time I watched the truly creepy video of WG ducking out of Hannah's sight so that he could watch her, and then falling in behind her and appearing to stalk her. IMO, these are not the actions of someone who wants to help a clearly confused and disoriented girl--more the behavior of a predator who sees an opportunity and decides to take it. Mind you, I'm not saying JLM is innocent--the two could have even been acting in concert, though it seems unlikely--I'm just pointing out the fact that there are TWO men whose behavior that night raises questions.

It is more "creepy" for a 32 y/o man to spot a drunk, clearly confused and disoriented 18 y/o girl, run to catch up with her, put his arm around her waist and take her to a bar to get her more drinks... than it is to spot a clearly confused and disoriented 18 y/o drunk girl, become concerned, keep an eye on her for awhile and contact police as soon as you find out she eventually disappeared... don't you think?

 

[ksj3]

Did police ever release info on make/model of vehicle JM was last spotted in? If not, that's also odd... If they are actively looking for him. since a warrant for his arrest was issued, LE could go get him immediately..why haven't they?

That's one of my questions. Too, should the public have a reason to fear him should he be seen? They haven't released (to my knowledge) any information about his direction of travel or the vehicle in which he left - or even who he left with, as people might be able to recognize that person. It's all quite strange, and a bit disconcerting.

 

[Wysteria]

Looking at his records and info (including condition of his car), I don't think JM could very well afford to buy strangers drinks.

He had garnishments from unpaid bills. To those that are saying questioning will ruin his life, he has already been convicted of at least one misdemeanor, so he has to acknowledge that on all job apps that ask, have you ever been convicted of a crime? The one I looked up was Trespassing After being warned.

He has been charged with a (non-violent) Felony. He is familiar with criminal defense attorneys.

The alcoholic drinks he was buying for young girl may be more telling...

Ya.
If cleared and his POI status changes, he'll live.

One of the many things that bugs me is that this "goofy, teddy bear", abandoned an under the influence 18yr. old college girl old at approx. 2am. (if I choose to believe 3rd hand information supplied by Grandma).

I really wish that he would just talk to LE and tell everything he knows (even if he doesn't think it's important), with his attorney present. If truly innocent he may have a plethora of vital information to help find this lovely young gal.

:truce: back to lurkdom lol

 

[gitana1]

some people still believe in the Constitution in this country

How is this man's rights being violated?

LE still should not be using him wanting to not speak without a lawyer against him. If they have evidence, use it. But don't use someone's right to protect themselves as evidence.

They are not using his purported refusal to speak without a lawyer as evidence. They are using it to profile. Which is what good LE does.

I suspect that he would...maybe. Anyone remember the name Richard Jewell? http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/us/30jewell.html?_r=0

I was under the impression that they started using that term AFTER that whole 1996 Olympics fiasco, but according to the always correct research source, wikipedia -- Jewell was termed a POI and not a suspect and his life was ruined forever as a result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_interest

You can't sue someone for reporting the facts. You can sue for lying. That's why Jewell did. I see no grounds for a suit in anything reported this far but I haven't read more than a handful of articles. Please direct me, anyone, to what you think he may be able to sue for and I will let you know, if you want, what his chances may be.

 

[verbonica]

I don't know how to bring over posts from the other thread, so here is a copy/paste of one of yesterday's posts, from someone who works in that area of the hospital.


"cvillehoo2
cvillehoo2 is offline Registered User

Join Date
Sep 2014
Posts
6

have worked around POI

I'm new to WS and this is my first comment. I work at the hospital where POI works and know people who have trained him and worked closely with him. He used to work in patient transportation but now works in the OR's as a person who helps to move patients in the OR and help position pt's for surgery. He would potentially have access to drugs in the OR's- not super easily but it would be possible. I really only had peripheral contact with him but found him to be polite and not inappropriate although I have heard that the way he looked a women made some of the other male techs uncomfortable- they thought it was over the top for work I think. Also, I know at least one woman who has worked near/around him found him to be creepy in that he was sort of seemingly unaware of personal space and boundaries. Not sure that that is really incriminating though. Haven't heard that he didn't show up for work as scheduled except for on Friday when they executed the search warrant at his apartment.
I agree that the story doesn't make sense. I have also heard he has/had a long-term girlfriend and seemed to have gotten his life relatively together- was volunteering as an assistant coach for the football team at a local Christian school and had a good job, having worked his way up a bit. The video shows his behavior to be suspicious though and if his motives were good he would have tried in some way to help HG and would be willing to discuss that with police. His behavior that night and his public persona do not match, which gives me the creeps. If he was really who he portrays himself to be publicly and did not do her harm, he would have come forward to help. This leads me to believe that he is not who he seems to be outwardly."



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-18-Charlottesville-13-Sept-2014-6&p=10986887

--post #1033

:bolded by me

 

[GhostGhost]

It is more "creepy" for a 32 y/o man to spot a drunk, clearly confused and disoriented 18 y/o girl, run to catch up with her, put his arm around her waist and take her to a bar to get her more drinks... than it is to spot a clearly confused and disoriented 18 y/o drunk girl, become concerned, keep an eye on her for awhile and contact police as soon as you find out she eventually disappeared... don't you think?

No shortage of speculation and suspicion - for the guy that doesn't touch her or try to get her drunker.

JM, on the hand, was never coming forward, his secret was going to remain buried.


'

 

[WhitegateGirl]

It is more "creepy" for a 32 y/o man to spot a drunk, clearly confused and disoriented 18 y/o girl, run to catch up with her, put his arm around her waist and take her to a bar to get her more drinks... than it is to spot a clearly confused and disoriented 18 y/o drunk girl, become concerned, keep an eye on her for awhile and contact police as soon as you find out she eventually disappeared... don't you think?

Very true, equanimous, if you believe everything WG said. Honestly, I don't find it easy to believe him because I find his behavior on the video creepy & repellent, and to me it appears that he was stalking Hannah. People who want to help do not skulk around that way, hide and watch, darting out of sight and then following from a distance, IMO. That doesn't mean I think JLM is innocent, and in fact I think he is disgusting for having taken an inebriated girl into a bar for MORE drinks. This also seems predatory to me and it raises my suspicions, too. I'm just saying that I think we have at least two males who should be looked at with suspicion until more evidence (or, sadly, a body) clarifies the details of this case.

 

[ksj3]

It is more "creepy" for a 32 y/o man to spot a drunk, clearly confused and disoriented 18 y/o girl, run to catch up with her, put his arm around her waist and take her to a bar to get her more drinks... than it is to spot a clearly confused and disoriented 18 y/o drunk girl, become concerned, keep an eye on her for awhile and contact police as soon as you find out she eventually disappeared... don't you think?

Unless you consider this, which I posited earlier and could fully see based upon the descriptions of those who know him (even here) and the fact that he was a volunteer coach for a local Christian high school: He is a big goofy teddy bear who has a heart of gold and sees 1) Hannah stumbling/confused, 2) WG following her and ducking in an alcove, 3) flock of "frat boys" harassing her - we have no idea what those boys were saying/doing, but they could well have frightened her, causing her to increase her speed. He catches up to her, puts his arm around her and says, "It's ok, I'm going to get you away from these guys. Walk with me [here] and pretend you know me and we'll call someone," fully willing to accept the potential subsequent punch to his face he might get - because that would at least get Hannah help. He takes her to Tempo. He buys her a soda. She texts a friend and says, "Thanks. I'm good now," and he or they leave.

Did she get in his car? Only JM seems to know that for certain, potentially LE now with the warrant to search his car and subsequently his apartment. Perhaps she did. Perhaps he drove her back to her neighborhood. Perhaps something else happened there, right where the other two assaults happened, each within 24 hours of this and each other.

LE needs JM. One way or the other.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Not me, I judge you by your shoes!

And I judge you by who you judge....:nono:

 

[verbonica]

delete -- wrong placement

 

[helpful]

It is more "creepy" for a 32 y/o man to spot a drunk, clearly confused and disoriented 18 y/o girl, run to catch up with her, put his arm around her waist and take her to a bar to get her more drinks... than it is to spot a clearly confused and disoriented 18 y/o drunk girl, become concerned, keep an eye on her for awhile and contact police as soon as you find out she eventually disappeared... don't you think?

In some respects, it's WAY creepier that WG saw a young girl who seemed to be in distress, and instead of asking her if she was okay, surreptitiously followed her. If he was truly concerned, why didn't he do anything? If JM was behaving suspiciously enough to report to police, why didn't WG take action at the time?

In my opinion, following and watching someone is pretty creepy. It's even more creepy if you suspect that person is in danger but just watch from a distance.

Not accusing WG of anything, just saying he's no less "creepy" than JM based on the limited video footage.

 

[Jmm124567]

Beyond that, I usually nail these things early on, but I get more confused by the hour on this one. To point:
-WG creeps me out big time and should not be ignored. BUT, also makes me think of my ex-military cop and PI dad, who I could totally see doing that.
-I'm sure I'm the only one, but the DG on the video's doesn't even look that creepy to me. But he also doesn't look like JM either, IMO.
-I find no rational explanation for the wrong early POI description & COMPLETELY unclear text descriptions & timelines.

As for JM:
-intuition says it was either an accident that he freaked out over and didn't possess the logical thinking ability to handle properly after the fact, OR, somebody(ies) smarter than him are using him.

As for LE:
-I did not see the last presser where it seems everyone here turned on him. But I'm not ready to throw him under the bus yet. There are a lot of statements saying they don't have evidence as rational for disapproval, but, speaking from years of eavesdropping on my dad, we, the public, have NO REAL IDEA what evidence they have right now. But since I also have first hand experience of small-town witch hunts, there is really no way we have any way of knowing which way this is heading yet.

Regardless of any of this, I hope Hannah is found soon and young girls there and elsewhere are reminded/taught how to increase their chances for safely navigating this world.
Goodnight!

WG to me looks like a good Samaritan. The fact the he went to police and said a big black guy came up to her and walked away with her was the truth. About the description he gave well he may have given a correct description but police then lied about some details to the public as part of a strategy. Or WG made an honest mistake. The description police put out was correct except for the hair and pants. Maybe he got a couple details wrong. I don't think he talked to police till 3 or 4 days after so his memory may not have been great.

 

[verbonica]

Not that it matters, but I don't see outside delivery in that description (any delivery of specimens or requisitions would be in-house - to/from the morgue, to/from the Blood Bank, to/from Sterile Supply, etc.), nor is that the description UVA uses for their transportation department. That can be seen here: https://uvahealth.taleo.net/careersection/1/jobdetail.ftl?job=22071 Any transportation is done solely in-house and solely on foot. Medical transportation of patients to and from the hospital is done by a separate unit, Pegasus and Medic 5.

My post #1290 below was supposed to go here, but I guess I goofed. According to that poster, perhaps he used to work for Pegasus or Medic 5...?

 

[Aqua]

I'm still on the fence about him......but most of those violations appear to be because his car was a "bucket of bolts" and couldn't pass an inspection.

 

[Seajay]

I'm going to withhold judgment until the forensics are in. I want to know if they found evidence of Hannah in his car. I want to know what the did find in his car. I want to know what they found during the search of his place. Right now, he's a POI, not a suspect.

It has not gotten past me that he does resemble the composite of MH's killer nor that Rt. 29 is nearby and there has been a serial killer working that area for years. Wait and see. Patience is my friend. IMO, JMO, and all that.

 

[Jmm124567]

In some respects, it's WAY creepier that WG saw a young girl who seemed to be in distress, and instead of asking her if she was okay, surreptitiously followed her if he was truly concerned, why didn't he do anything? If JM was behaving suspiciously enough to report to police, why didn't WG take action at the time?

In my opinion, following and watching someone is pretty creepy. It's even more creepy if you suspect that person is in danger but just watch from a distance.

Not accusing WG of anything, just saying he's no less "creepy" than JM based on the limited video footage.

WG did not suspect she was in danger. He apparently told police that it looked like JM and HG may know each other basically he didn't see any cause for concern. Then he heard about her missing and went to police.

WG to me looks like a good Samaritan. The fact the he went to police and said a big black guy came up to her and walked away with her was the truth. About the description he gave well he may have given a correct description but police then lied about some details to the public as part of a strategy. Or WG made an honest mistake. The description police put out was correct except for the hair and pants. Maybe he got a couple details wrong. I don't think he talked to police till 3 or 4 days after so his memory may not have been great.