VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #8

[franco]

Or maybe a very recent break-up?

or maybe referring to her going missing and whatever happened to her?

 

[HFfan1]

You are kinda making the point - and the POI has money to buy complete strangers drinks?

Drinks cost $8-10. A new bumper costs hundreds, so does a new car. I know PLENTY of people my age (which this guy is) who make worse financial decisions.

 

[BloodshotEye]

LE still should not be using him wanting to not speak without a lawyer against him. If they have evidence, use it. But don't use someone's right to protect themselves as evidence.

Agreed.
We heard an on-camera reference, to LE receiving the 'advice of legal counsel', to refrain from disclosing the name of the POI. I was rather chilled, by the way Chief Longo, practically issued a full on challenge for all media, to disclose, 'out', investigate, and pursue the identify of, the POI. All of this occurred on camera. They clearly used the media, to help them skirt a technicality. Yet when the POI asserts his right to have a lawyer, and requests assistance with that, it is magically released to the media, and plays out in the news, as a sign of guilt? I have a great respect for Chief Longo's experience and dedication. I believe he is emotionally connected to the outcome of this case - he has a family, and he feels the profound depths of this family's pain. I could hear it in his voice. However, If LE manipulates the media, and justifies it one way or another, whom/what else to you think they manipulate? Public opinion maybe? If LE were truly considering all possible scenarios, they would also be asking the media to report on and consider the 2 other attacks on women, that occurred the same weekend that HG disappeared, within the exact neighborhood in which she lived and partied that night. I find Longo's statement about 'tunnel vision', to be rather amusing. IMO, I do feel that there is a deliberate manipulation of the public's opinion about the POI. Do I think POI is responsible for HG's disappearance? I have no idea. But I would have a greater respect for LE's work process, if they didn't resort to things like this lame warrant for reckless driving.

Mod: screen did a strange 'freeze' - apologies if this is posted twice.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

Not me, I judge you by your shoes!

Beautiful mood lightener! And since I, too, am a shoe-ho, I bow to you for saying it first.

 

[msteach]

(snipped by me)

I am curious tho, if JLM is innocent and decides to sue, would he have a case?

Gosh darn why are there no lawyers on this thread?

I suspect that he would...maybe. Anyone remember the name Richard Jewell? http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/us/30jewell.html?_r=0

I was under the impression that they started using that term AFTER that whole 1996 Olympics fiasco, but according to the always correct research source, wikipedia -- Jewell was termed a POI and not a suspect and his life was ruined forever as a result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_interest

 

[bakerlady]

For clarity

 

[zapped]

To respond, 25k is not enough to afford a decent car in this area. The cost of living in Charlottesville is nearly 10 percent higher than the national average, and housing costs are 20% higher according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index 2011 Report. Many police officers and firefighters (who make about that) can't afford to live in the city they work to protect, nor the county immediately surrounding it. There has been a movement at UVA for many years to create a "living wage," because minimum wage won't support anyone.

There is reliable public transportation, within walking distance of JM's house, so a reliable car to work isn't a necessity.

His job as "transportation" doesn't involve vehicular transportation - it involves transporting patients, in stretchers, from point A to point B within the hospital (room to OR and back, in his case).

Remember, too, he was (apparently) employed as a taxi driver at least as recently as seven years ago. I don't know what cab drivers make around here, but it can't be much, so his 25k salary is likely relatively new in his life.

http://hiring.monster.com/hr/hr-best-practices/recruiting-hiring-advice/job-descriptions/patient-transporter-job-description.aspx

According to this article his job does entail delivery.Which would make sense considering that its been confirmed he was once a taxi driver and that prior experience would be viewed as an asset when applying to a job such as this.

 

[helpful]

WOW, that is a very interesting connection to draw! Of course, if she had been kidnapped with hope of ransom because of her father's connection to the World Bank/international banking, etc., one would think we'd have heard about that by now. Still, it's a very interesting point.

My dad also works for a major international political organization (NATO), has connections to a part of the world where there is longstanding ethnic and religious conflict, and is "known" in his field. I seriously doubt anyone would kidnap me to get to him. In fact, I doubt there are many people who even think to connect us, even though we share a fairly uncommon surname. The fact is, very, VERY few of the people who work for organizations like the World Bank, IMF, NATO, etc. are high profile enough for their children to draw scrutiny. I'd be shocked if this is what happened to Hannah. Real life is not a Robert Ludlum novel.

Edited to add that it might be good to keep in mind that even the World Bank, NATO, IMF, etc. have employees who just do "regular" work. I'm not sure what Hannah's father does, exactly, but I have a friend who is officially employed by the IMF to do pretty standard software engineering stuff. He just happens to do it for an organization that the general public thinks is all cloak-and-dagger. It's totally possible that Hannah's dad does a totally normal job that happens to be under the aegis of the World Bank.

 

[Wahoo]

And along those lines, what it's like between 12:30-1:30-ish am in terms of it's feasible to park or difficult or a total craps shoot and not real consistent even on a weekend, etc.?

Easy to find a free spot on the street at that time of night.

 

[Hadiehl]

For what it's worth, here are my .2 cents. I've been employed as a secretary at a law firm for nearly ten years, and while I don't claim to have ANY legal training, I've learned things "on the job" which may be relevant. I work with private criminal defensive attorneys, not public defenders, but in my experience weekends are practically "off limits". That is to say, an attorney might meet with a potential client for an initial consultation on a weekend, but they won't begin the real work of defending said client until Monday. My thought is that if JM didn't retain an attorney prior to Saturday, that attorney might be inclined to advise JM to keep quiet through the weekend, until the attorney looked into his situation once the workweek began. All of this is speculation, of course, since we have no idea who/or evern if/ he obtained counsel, but I do believe that most defense attorneys have no interest in working the weekends. I completely respect the time sensitive nature of Hannah's case, but do remember that a retained attorney is obligated to ONLY serve their client. If their offices are anything like mine, emergent situations occur continuously. JM may very well have been instructed to wait the weekend out before talking to anyone.

I'm not convinced of his innocence or his guilt at this point, and I'd wager that he's much more forthcoming this week under his attorney's advisement. Any interaction with LE, regardless of guilt, can be a scary and invasive expierence. If guilty, it's beyond justified. If innocent, the informed reaction is to first protect yourself and your rights. Legal counsel 101 is to speak with an attorney first, because "open and shut" cases are the preference of nearly all LE offices in the country. No one wants something as damning as an u solved abduction on their hands.

And for the record - no, I'm not saying JM is innocent. Only that he's entitled to the same rights and protections we all are until (and even after) being formally charged. While I understand and sympathize with the frustration over lengthy process of LE being able to formally interview JM, I'm not at all willing to forego the rights of each and every one of us in order to speed up the process. As Thomas Jefferson infamously said, "those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

Just my opinion!

 

[cluciano63]

The way LE is handling this case is dictating how some of us are reacting, Imo.
It does not mean we are less concerned or upset by Hannah being missing. But I feel like LE is making potential mistakes that could result in no one being charged, or an acquittal. No one wants that. It is shocking to me the way Longo is basically calling this guy out, when he has nothing to charge him with, related to Hannah and we haven't seen this before, Imo. So we don't know if it is a great strategy. Everyone was this case solved...not to just watch Longo do his act. Jmo

 

[msteach]

http://hiring.monster.com/hr/hr-best-practices/recruiting-hiring-advice/job-descriptions/patient-transporter-job-description.aspx

According to this article his job dos entail delivery.Which would make sense considering that its been confirmed he was once a taxi driver and that would be considered an asset when applying to a job such as this.

Patient transporters push patients from their room to their tests or to the OR and back. Of this I am certain. We used to call them orderlies. Same job. New title.

 

[snarkymalarkey]

ahh now I see what you mean but she came from the opposite direction so she would not have been on rugby or even near it.

But if we are trying to figure out how she blew that 45ish minute window...


My guess is she took Preston... almost reached Shell. However prior to reaching shell, she crossed the divided highway, And then turned around and wound up on the mcgrady video.

Then I think she went back towards shell again.

I think that for the most part she was continuing do go deeper down on Grady, but for that split moment she decided to reorient herself and go towards The irish pub. Which was correct.

I think the sheer number of Grady signs threw her off and she felt going gowards the irish pub was the wrong way and so she sets i
off again in the wrong direction.

I swear she continues to pause and check her phone.

maybe she is using a mapping program that is giving her car instructions and she didnt set it to pedestrian so it isnt responding in a manner that is immediately helpful or responsive.


However, by the time she hit the mall area you would think she would have figured out how to re navigate. Yet she ends up at Tempos. Very sad.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

My dad also works for a major international political organization (NATO), has connections to a part of the world where there is longstanding ethnic and religious conflict, and is "known" in his field. I seriously doubt anyone would kidnap me to get to him. In fact, I doubt there are many people who even think to connect us. The fact is, very, VERY few of the people who work for oganizations like the World Bank, IMF, NATO, etc. are high profile enough for their children to draw scrutiny. I'd be shocked if this is what happened to Hannah. Real life is not a Robert Ludlum novel.

Thanks for your input, helpful. I respect yr position and am sure you have a better perspective on this area than I could, but I do still think it's an interesting connection. Probably means nothing, but a teenage girl is missing, so every connection seems worth contemplating.

 

[lovethesnark]

Agreed.
We heard an on-camera reference, to LE receiving the 'advice of legal counsel', to refrain from disclosing the name of the POI. I was rather chilled, by the way Chief Longo, practically issued a full on challenge for all media, to disclose, 'out', investigate, and pursue the identify of, the POI. All of this occurred on camera. They clearly used the media, to help them skirt a technicality. Yet when the POI asserts his right to have a lawyer, and requests assistance with that, it is magically released to the media, and plays out in the news, as a sign of guilt? I have a great respect for Chief Longo's experience and dedication. I believe he is emotionally connected to the outcome of this case - he has a family, and he feels the profound depths of this family's pain. I could hear it in his voice. However, If LE manipulates the media, and justifies it one way or another, whom/what else to you think they manipulate? Public opinion maybe? If LE were truly considering all possible scenarios, they would also be asking the media to report on and consider the 2 other attacks on women, that occurred the same weekend that HG disappeared, within the exact neighborhood in which she lived and partied that night. I find Longo's statement about 'tunnel vision', to be rather amusing. IMO, I do feel that there is a deliberate manipulation of the public's opinion about the POI. Do I think POI is responsible for HG's disappearance? I have no idea. But I would have a greater respect for LE's work process, if they didn't resort to things like this lame warrant for reckless driving.

Mod: screen did a strange 'freeze' - apologies if this is posted twice.

Most people think if you plead the fifth (say nothing for fear of incriminating yourself) then it obviously means you have something to hide. If you ask for a lawyer and won't answer questions without one, you're probably guilty... Most people assume this, without the media or police hinting at it.

As far as naming the POI, they're obviously putting pressure on him hoping he'll either turn himself in and stay in and confess, or make a stupid mistake because he's running scared. I don't have a problem with that. Generally speaking the cops say what is beneficial to helping them solve whatever case they're working on.... If they don't want to create mass hysteria in an already jumpy town by saying that it's possible and being looked into that the beatings and rapes are connected, that's probably a good thing. Again I mention the serial killer in Baton Rouge, they refused to name him a serial killer for months when it was clear that's exactly what Derrek Todd Lee was, and that's because once he was officially named as such Baton Rouge went STUPID crazy with fear. Just because they don't say it doesn't mean they don't think it and doesn't mean they're not investigating the possibility.

As far as the lame warrant for arrest for speeding.... Not the first and not the last and not the lamest. Get him in there and pressure cook him until he cracks. If he has nothing to hide obviously he can't crack. If he does, maybe we'll finally know what happened. If that means getting him in there on some lame 2 mi over the speed limit warrant I'm good with it.

 

[ksj3]

http://hiring.monster.com/hr/hr-best-practices/recruiting-hiring-advice/job-descriptions/patient-transporter-job-description.aspx

According to this article his job dos entail delivery.Which would make sense considering that its been confirmed he was once a taxi driver and that would be considered an asset when applying to a job such as this.

Not that it matters, but I don't see outside delivery in that description (any delivery of specimens or requisitions would be in-house - to/from the morgue, to/from the Blood Bank, to/from Sterile Supply, etc.), nor is that the description UVA uses for their transportation department. That can be seen here: https://uvahealth.taleo.net/careersection/1/jobdetail.ftl?job=22071 Any transportation is done solely in-house and solely on foot. Medical transportation of patients to and from the hospital is done by a separate unit, Pegasus and Medic 5.

 

[helpful]

I'd actually never even considered that my dad's job could subject me to any risk until I read your post. The region of his expertise has calmed down considerably since ca. 2001 or so but still...

 

[Wahoo]

I would like to know where she was trying to go. I don't understand why she was trying to get into McGrady's, and I don't understand why she walked all the way down the dowtown mass. Was she trying to join friends inside McGrady's, hoping to run into someone she knew, or just trying to get into any bar?

Preston is a major thoroughfare, far busier than any of the streets behind the Corner and around Wertland. It's possible she made a wrong turn on preston, intending to head West toward the Rugby/Grady area and the fraternity and sorority houses. Taking Preston in the direction she did is the most direct route to the downtown mall from McGrady's. If she found herself on the downtown mall, she should have known that she had gone the wrong direction - University Grounds and the Mall aren't next door. Yet, she walks the entire length of the downtown mall. Although she appears to be intoxicated in the McGrady's video pictures, she's striding past the Shell station as if she's on a mission and seems to have the capacity to realize she had gone the wrong direction.

 

[GhostGhost]

'
Was there all this concern over the other guy that was called creepy - concern for him?

Did people want him to be quiet, so he wouldn't get caught?

Was there this upset with LE because they pointed him out to the media?

,

 

[md2021]

Just a thought. Her twitter has multiple references to her having a car, being a second year student and also running a lot around downtown. I find it hard to believe she could get lost in that area. She has undoubtedly been all over that area it's a high college traffic area, with many restaurants and shops. Also the argument of her being drunk making her lost is weak, her twitter has many posts talking about how she drinks all the time. I think she knew where she was, and where she was headed.... if she thought she wasn't in control, I think she would of headed south from the pub back to the apartment. She instead headed to the mall, which is further away most likely to meet someone. Something happened in that missing hour in the vicinity of 8th /9th st. and page st.?