VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #8

[msteach]

Thank you!!! You have eloquently stated precisely what so many of us are thinking and why we are responding in the manner in which we are.

We're neither 'defending' JM nor are we disrespecting Hannah. We are simply saying that before playing judge and jury, let's wait for some actual evidence a) of a crime being committed and b) of JM's involvement with the commission of that crime.

It sounds like they should have the forensic evidence back by mid-week from what Longo said at the presser today. If, after they have the info (and if they share it with the public at that time), an arrest will possibly be made. Remember what Longo said -- that they don't intend to arrest without being able to make a conviction stick -- so an actual arrest next week will speak volumes -- even if LE opts to do a gag order like they did in the AM trial. If they don't arrest him and just continue to call him out, it will lead me to believe that they don't have any solid evidence. If they do make an arrest, I will believe that they likely have their man.

For what it's worth, here are my .2 cents. I've been employed as a secretary at a law firm for nearly ten years, and while I don't claim to have ANY legal training, I've learned things "on the job" which may be relevant. I work with private criminal defensive attorneys, not public defenders, but in my experience weekends are practically "off limits". That is to say, an attorney might meet with a potential client for an initial consultation on a weekend, but they won't begin the real work of defending said client until Monday. My thought is that if JM didn't retain an attorney prior to Saturday, that attorney might be inclined to advise JM to keep quiet through the weekend, until the attorney looked into his situation once the workweek began. All of this is speculation, of course, since we have no idea who/or evern if/ he obtained counsel, but I do believe that most defense attorneys have no interest in working the weekends. I completely respect the time sensitive nature of Hannah's case, but do remember that a retained attorney is obligated to ONLY serve their client. If their offices are anything like mine, emergent situations occur continuously. JM may very well have been instructed to wait the weekend out before talking to anyone.

I'm not convinced of his innocence or his guilt at this point, and I'd wager that he's much more forthcoming this week under his attorney's advisement. Any interaction with LE, regardless of guilt, can be a scary and invasive expierence. If guilty, it's beyond justified. If innocent, the informed reaction is to first protect yourself and your rights. Legal counsel 101 is to speak with an attorney first, because "open and shut" cases are the preference of nearly all LE offices in the country. No one wants something as damning as an u solved abduction on their hands.

And for the record - no, I'm not saying JM is innocent. Only that he's entitled to the same rights and protections we all are until (and even after) being formally charged. While I understand and sympathize with the frustration over lengthy process of LE being able to formally interview JM, I'm not at all willing to forego the rights of each and every one of us in order to speed up the process. As Thomas Jefferson infamously said, "those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
BBM

Just my opinion!

 

[Wahoo]

Not that it matters, but I don't see outside delivery in that description (any delivery of specimens or requisitions would be in-house - to/from the morgue, to/from the Blood Bank, to/from Sterile Supply, etc.), nor is that the description UVA uses for their transportation department. That can be seen here: https://uvahealth.taleo.net/careersection/1/jobdetail.ftl?job=22071 Any transportation is done solely in-house and solely on foot. Medical transportation of patients to and from the hospital is done by a separate unit, Pegasus and Medic 5.

The job posting date is marked today. Can't tell whether that's the original posting date or just today's date stamp, but I imagine there is an opening for a transporter at UVA currently.

 

[Claudia]

That seems to be debatable. When I asked the question earlier, I was told that police can take you in for questioning without an arrest warrant.

Of course, I was aware that it happens all the time around here, I just didn't know if it was legal to do that in Virginia.

Anyone else know for sure?

They can take you in and hold you for up to 72 hours. At that point, they have to either charge you or let you go.

 

[TravelingBug]

I was watching the McGrady Security Camera video again.

Hannah actually comes in from the direction she should be headed, if she was trying to go to the university, which is really sad. She somehow went the wrong way after the party, and was finally heading the correct way home.
Considering the length of time that passes between leaving the party and being filmed here, finally heading the right direction, she seems to have spent 40+ minutes already walking around trying to get properly oriented.


She then goes off camera for about 2 minutes. And you can see that group of three guys clearly watching her. A guy in a black shirt leans way forward and his *advertiser censored* is hovering off the seat as he strains forward and crooks his head to watch, another guy is holding his arm out and points a couple times with his finger. Is he providing her with directions?

<snip>

I could be crazy, but if you keep watching, I then think way in the distance she crosses that divided street. And I think she talks to a car that pulls over!

<snip>

I just wanted to say thanks! I love when people post what they see in pictures and videos

Aside from possibly attempting to give directions, I wonder if they could actually be noticing someone behind her and trying to indicate that? :waitasec:

Like discussing and trying to point out / determine among one another if someone might be behind her but ducking in and out, and thus trying to show one of the others what/where they were seeing someone?

Or trying to determine if maybe there was someone who was just walking and happened to be behind her but maybe doing something explainable and/or non-creepy and thus not concerning?

Or even seeing something and trying to indicate that actually to Hannah more than just maybe trying to figure it out themselves?

 

[zapped]

I was still renting at 33. Now I am 42, and we have a 98 vehicle and a 2000 vehicle. Yet, somehow, we are very stable people...

Im not casting aspersions at you or anyone else for renting. With all due respect, it does seem to me that youre focusing on one thing, taken out of context with the other information around it, and missing the bigger picture here.

Taken all together, JLMs situation is more typical of someone in their early 20s than it is someone approaching middle age and IMO there is usually a reason for that.

I drive a 2001 Chevy s-10 myself but Im not driving it down the road with duct tape to hold the doors shut and the bumper half falling off and I doubt you are either.

Someone mentioned earlier that family and friends had commented on JLMs being "slow" and that would certainly explain it but then again so would drugs, alcohol abuse or mental health issues.

 

[ksj3]

The job posting date is marked today. Can't tell whether that's the original posting date or just today's date stamp, but I imagine there is an opening for a transporter at UVA currently.

It's posted today (though that's odd because of the hour), but there were three others posted 9/17 and two posted in August. Not too uncommon, I don't think, though sad under the circumstances.

 

[Claudia]

This is most likely being COMPLETELY misinterpreted! When she posted that he was "following" her..... it most likely meant he was following her TWITTER account! Not as in stalking or following her in person!

She wouldn't say that on her Twitter account if he was following her! She'd have to be pretty mean to tweet that so he could see it. JMO

 

[vegasgirlem]

You are 100% right. When I meet my husband he was an "Orderly" or "Transporter" at a hospital. He moved patients to and from the Radiology area. Little to no medical experience is needed for that job. I don't believe my husband had any medical experience before getting that job. Not sure if that even matters but just some more info.

 

[helpful]

'
Was there all this concern over the other guy that was called creepy - concern for him?

Did people want him to be quiet, so he wouldn't get caught?

Was there this upset with LE because they pointed him out to the media?

,

I don't think people here "want [JM] to be quiet so he won't get caught." I am sure that I am NOT alone in hoping that if he is, indeed, guilty, he will be caught. However, in the absence of LE stating the nature of the evidence found in his car, I'm a little concerned that JM is a black man who has been all but convicted in the media of doing something terrible to a white girl in the Old South when there is video footage of a white guy skulking around at the same time. It gives me pause and I'd hope the same of any thinking person.

 

[Jmm124567]

JM has been confirmed as a taxi driver, photo 2007:



His story is: " The Daily Mail says he admits to buying her drinks but claims he did not drive off with her in his car, which has been confiscated by police. Quoting Matthew’s grandmother, the Mail says he and Graham went their separate ways."

http://wvtf.org/post/person-interest-named-charlottesville-investigation

Wow the outline of his face looks like the sketch in Morgan Harrington's case. He also lives right down the street from Route 29.

Didn't they get DNA off Morgan Harrington and it matched with DNA from a 2005 case in the area?

 

[WhitegateGirl]

She wouldn't say that on her Twitter account if he was following her! She'd have to be pretty mean to tweet that so he could see it. JMO

An interesting point, Claudia--makes sense. And if she really, literally meant that someone was physically following her, it's pretty chilling in retrospect.

 

[Galadriel]

I'm processing the audio from today's press conference, and hope to have a transcript ready in the next few hours.

I can't edit my original post, but had some internet difficulties. I'll have a transcript up tomorrow afternoon unless someone else does sooner.

 

[zapped]

Not that it matters, but I don't see outside delivery in that description (any delivery of specimens or requisitions would be in-house - to/from the morgue, to/from the Blood Bank, to/from Sterile Supply, etc.), nor is that the description UVA uses for their transportation department. That can be seen here: https://uvahealth.taleo.net/careersection/1/jobdetail.ftl?job=22071 Any transportation is done solely in-house and solely on foot. Medical transportation of patients to and from the hospital is done by a separate unit, Pegasus and Medic 5.

Interesting.

You speak as if you work for U.V.A medical with authoritative comments like "solely on foot" and "solely in-house."

As someone not employed there, I would be loathe to make statements like this for fear of spreading misinformation and lack of confidence in my own knowledge when it comes to how a particular hospital operates.

Have you worked with JLM or are you a friend of his by chance? If so, many of us would appreciate your insight into his character and general disposition.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

I don't think people here "want [JM] to be quiet so he won't get caught." I am sure that I am NOT alone in hoping that if he is, indeed, guilty, he will be caught. However, in the absence of LE stating the nature of the evidence found in his car, I'm a little concerned that JM is a black man who has been all but convicted in the media of doing something terrible to a white girl in the Old South when there is video footage of a white guy skulking around at the same time. It gives me pause and I'd hope the same of any thinking person.

Exactly my position, helpful, and it has been since the first time I watched the truly creepy video of WG ducking out of Hannah's sight so that he could watch her, and then falling in behind her and appearing to stalk her. IMO, these are not the actions of someone who wants to help a clearly confused and disoriented girl--more the behavior of a predator who sees an opportunity and decides to take it. Mind you, I'm not saying JLM is innocent--the two could have even been acting in concert, though it seems unlikely--I'm just pointing out the fact that there are TWO men whose behavior that night raises questions.

 

[ksj3]

Forgot to quote - but for zapped, post #1274 - Unfortunately, the answer to both of your questions is no.

 

[zapped]

Wow the outline of his face looks like the sketch in Morgan Harrington's case. He also lives right down the street from Route 29.

Didn't they get DNA off Morgan Harrington and it matched with DNA from a 2005 case in the area?

According to Google Maps, Hessian Hills Apartments is within 12 miles of where MH's body was found and just over 1.5 miles from JPJ Arena.

Even more disturbing than that is MHs shirt being found on 15h and Grady just blocks from where several rapes and assaults were reported this past week.

 

[Wahoo]

Interesting.

You speak as if you work for U.V.A medical with authoritative comments like "solely on foot" and "solely in-house."

As someone not employed there, I would be loathe to make statements like this for fear of spreading misinformation and lack of confidence in my own knowledge when it comes to how a particular hospital operates.

Have you worked with JLM or are you a friend of his by chance? If so, many of us would appreciate your insight into his character and general disposition.

I work at the hospital and will back up ksj3 on this. As a matter of fact, if you want to transport a patient from an outpatient clinic on the hospital grounds across the parking lot to the ER, you have to call medic V. Hospital patient transportation will not leave the hospital.

I don't know JLM and did not recognize him. The hospital is the largest employer in the area.

 

[south fishy]

Addicted to this site, but first post. Way too much conflicting info on this case and I need to sleep, but I observed a few things a couple of days ago I want to lay out there. If anything, raises more questions for me.

Preface to this info: I grew up in the south and went to college somewhere very similar to UVA. I live in the "big-city north" now, and although I loved it "down there", it is my belief that, while race is certainly still a hot button, I think RIGID CLASS STRUCTURES and CLASSISM are even more prevalent. To that thought:

Before JM's Facebook went black, etc., the make-up of his friends really jumped out at me. Following doesn't add up to 100 bc there is overlap and non-categorized. But this was the break-down of friends:
20-25% white females
7-10% black females
25-35% white males
7-10% black males
10-15% Indian,,Middle East
Also, 15-20% had their young children as or in the profile pic
3-6% used (very nice looking) wedding pics
2-4% of friends were interracial couples (IMO this is extremely high for someone in that area)

And then, not FB related, but the BIZARRE number of Websleuthers who ended up knowing him or of him and attesting to his personality.

Juxtapose that with: description of JM apartment, car, job, neighborhood, etc.
Also all of the discussion on here of "DG" before we knew who he was.

Thoughts?

Beyond that, I usually nail these things early on, but I get more confused by the hour on this one. To point:
-WG creeps me out big time and should not be ignored. BUT, also makes me think of my ex-military cop and PI dad, who I could totally see doing that.
-I'm sure I'm the only one, but the DG on the video's doesn't even look that creepy to me. But he also doesn't look like JM either, IMO.
-I find no rational explanation for the wrong early POI description & COMPLETELY unclear text descriptions & timelines.

As for JM:
-intuition says it was either an accident that he freaked out over and didn't possess the logical thinking ability to handle properly after the fact, OR, somebody(ies) smarter than him are using him.

As for LE:
-I did not see the last presser where it seems everyone here turned on him. But I'm not ready to throw him under the bus yet. There are a lot of statements saying they don't have evidence as rational for disapproval, but, speaking from years of eavesdropping on my dad, we, the public, have NO REAL IDEA what evidence they have right now. But since I also have first hand experience of small-town witch hunts, there is really no way we have any way of knowing which way this is heading yet.

Regardless of any of this, I hope Hannah is found soon and young girls there and elsewhere are reminded/taught how to increase their chances for safely navigating this world.
Goodnight!

 

[TravelingBug]

She then goes off camera for about 2 minutes. And you can see that group of three guys clearly watching her. A guy in a black shirt leans way forward and his *advertiser censored* is hovering off the seat as he strains forward and crooks his head to watch, another guy is holding his arm out and points a couple times with his finger. Is he providing her with directions?

Also, do you happen to be the one who mentioned those guys yesterday?

I probably missed them being mentioned at some other point earlier, but I saw someone mention them yesterday, because the poster had asked if anyone else noticed them seeming to be talking about her and gesturing, and then the one seeming to possibly interact and be on the verge of perhaps leaving.

But I never saw anyone else reply as to their thoughts as I think it got lost in the mush of "super close friend of the POI (except not really!)" mess.

I had wanted to go back and find it earlier and bump it and just couldn't find it, especially when someone earlier this evening wondered about two women who were seen at one point and if they had come forward.

I'd love to know if any of that group of guys came forward or if anyone can ID them (since we've obviously gone round and round on whether or not people even necessarily know Hannah's missing) if they've not come forward or heard about it to see if they can add any insight.

It seems like they'd at least have thoughts on her condition as it seemed like they were gesturing about something in Hannah's direction, so even if they weren't truly indicating anything related to her, it appears they had to have at least noticed her and/or something going on, so would likely be able to relay something observation wise.

And with it being a group, it's a lot easier to at least pick up on that they seemed to be seeing something that caught their attention that direction (and there probably weren't clowns on unicycles or something :wink) and I hope LE is able to find out what!

 

[helpful]

I also want to say that I'm a twentysomething woman who goes to bars alone and this case is making me feel ill when I look back at all of the dumb stuff I've done when drinking. A few weeks ago I walked 12 miles (yes, seriously) home at 2 AM because I missed the last bus home. It was dark, obviously, and some places had no sidewalk. It was incredibly stupid and it's not the only thing I've done when drunk only to regret it later.

(For what it's worth, a VERY sweet male colleague was completely horrified when I told him this story. He made me PROMISE that if anything similar ever happened again, I'd call him for a ride regardless of how late it was. If ONLY Hannah had a person like him!)