Found Deceased VA - Morgan Dana Harrington, 20, Charlottesville, 17 Oct 2009 - #15

[davehead21]

It would be interesting to know the origins of the 'no reentry' policies that are so common these days. I imagine they were in response to bad things that happened when people were allowed to come and go as they please -- in which case you have to wonder which policy protects more people. The greater good and all that.

It's about money. Let's say 8 people decide to go to a show, their plan is to buy 5 tickets and split the cost of 5 tickets between the 8 of them. When they get there, only 5 of them go inside the venue. A little bit later, 1 person goes outside with tickets for the other 3 waiting.

Even if this were not an issue and people were allowed to reenter a show, what exactly are they doing when they leave? Likely drinking their own beer/alcohol. Which means that the venue loses out on a ton of money.

It's all about the money. :twocents:

 

[soothsayer]

Ah, the greater greed! That makes good sense. A lot of people theorize it was a response to 9/11, but I suspect you're on to something -- how will you make people buy a $13 beer and an $8 hot dog if they have the option of going outside to eat and drink for free at their car?

 

[quiqui]

Morgan's case is what brought me to websleuths as well. I think of her often and hope that some of these lingering questions are answered soon.

I posted (gosh probably almost 2 years ago now) that I attended an event at the JPJA about 4-5 months after Morgan disappeared where the MC running the show told everyone in the audience that we could go outside for some fresh air during intermission. So is the no re-entry a rule only applied to some shows? Possibly.

There was also some discussion on here about whether or not signs are/were posted in the arena that indicate re-entry is not allowed. I didn't notice any during the two times I've been to JPJA in the last few years (though this doesn't mean they weren't/aren't there).

I do hope the lawsuit can answer some questions for her family.
:heartbeat:

 

[davehead21]

Morgan's case is what brought me to websleuths as well. I think of her often and hope that some of these lingering questions are answered soon.

I posted (gosh probably almost 2 years ago now) that I attended an event at the JPJA about 4-5 months after Morgan disappeared where the MC running the show told everyone in the audience that we could go outside for some fresh air during intermission. So is the no re-entry a rule only applied to some shows? Possibly.

There was also some discussion on here about whether or not signs are/were posted in the arena that indicate re-entry is not allowed. I didn't notice any during the two times I've been to JPJA in the last few years (though this doesn't mean they weren't/aren't there).

I do hope the lawsuit can answer some questions for her family.
:heartbeat:

What kind of an event did you attend at JPJ when you were allowed to leave and reenter?

 

[MsFacetious]

I always wondered why they didn't just stamp their hands... or do something like that?

When we go to something like a musical, they will often stamp your hand. Clubs do the same thing sometimes.
If they just stamped the hands of people as they came in, then Morgan could have gotten back in even if she forgot her ticket.

Would their policy have applied if it had been a 15 year old girl? A 12 year old girl? Where is the line drawn?
I think stamping as you come through the door is likely the best way to do it. You can't misplace the stamp.

 

[davehead21]

I always wondered why they didn't just stamp their hands... or do something like that?

When we go to something like a musical, they will often stamp your hand. Clubs do the same thing sometimes.
If they just stamped the hands of people as they came in, then Morgan could have gotten back in even if she forgot her ticket.

Would their policy have applied if it had been a 15 year old girl? A 12 year old girl? Where is the line drawn?
I think stamping as you come through the door is likely the best way to do it. You can't misplace the stamp.

Nope, they can wash off.

 

[quiqui]

What kind of an event did you attend at JPJ when you were allowed to leave and reenter?

It was a charity type of concert with a variety of bands. Though, most likely, a vastly different environment than a Metallica concert I was still surprised. Prior to this I assumed "no re-entry" was a JPJA policy...consistent across events. I did not leave to test the issue, so I don't know how it would have been handled.

 

[MsFacetious]

Nope, they can wash off.

I am obsessive compulsive about washing my hands... they are often cracked and bleeding.
I have never had a stamp wash off while I was still at an event.

But alright... stamp up on the forearm. Most people don't wash those while they are at a concert.

 

[davehead21]

I am obsessive compulsive about washing my hands... they are often cracked and bleeding.
I have never had a stamp wash off while I was still at an event.

But alright... stamp up on the forearm. Most people don't wash those while they are at a concert.

I have had stamps wash off at events. People can claim that they washed their forearm because they got something sticky on it. There are so many excuses people can come up with that makes stamping a part of a person's body not an option with the concert-going crowd. :twocents:

 

[soothsayer]

"No re-entry" policies are not really that uncommon. For instance, most people would never even think of leaving a movie theater and coming back in again -- we're just used to the concept that you can't (generally) do that. And again, most people who are denied re-entry are not murdered shortly thereafter (and to be honest -- we really don't know when or how her death occurred). What happened to Morgan after she left the venue --- and as evidence suggests, the grounds -- is such a mercifully rare fluke, would it be worth it to require a venue to buy hand stamps and special inks and change their procedures just in case such an unlikely happenstance happened again? It seems absurd. AND...there's no way to be sure that had they let her back in, she wouldn't have just left again.

Maybe have the guards say, "If you leave, you know you can't come back in again," and add, "and if you leave....don't hitch hike. It's dangerous."

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

"No re-entry" policies are not really that uncommon. For instance, most people would never even think of leaving a movie theater and coming back in again -- we're just used to the concept that you can't (generally) do that. And again, most people who are denied re-entry are not murdered shortly thereafter (and to be honest -- we really don't know when or how her death occurred). What happened to Morgan after she left the venue --- and as evidence suggests, the grounds -- is such a mercifully rare fluke, would it be worth it to require a venue to buy hand stamps and special inks and change their procedures just in case such an unlikely happenstance happened again? It seems absurd. AND...there's no way to be sure that had they let her back in, she wouldn't have just left again.

Maybe have the guards say, "If you leave, you know you can't come back in again," and add, "and if you leave....don't hitch hike. It's dangerous."

....and even that wouldn't stop someone....but for liability purposes some sort of written and posted warning should be used. Actually I thought it was printed on the ticket?
Also don't they at least tear the ticket in half, like movie theaters? Would seem like that would solve a lot of problems, at least you still have the other half to prove you paid, right?

So why was Morgan starting to look for her ripped up ticket in her purse. Were they going to allow her back in if she showed a ticket?

 

[soothsayer]

The venue DOES have the no-readmittance policy posted on their signs. Permanent signs on the building, if memory serves. Gil is famously posing next to one in the Hook article that talks about the civil suit. (Oct 19, 2011, maybe?). I've seen people post pics of their tix and they didn't say no readmittance -- at least on the front. There's usually a bunch of fine print on the back though. And the guards do verbally warn people who are leaving that they can't come back in, and they say they warned Morgan and she acknowledged what they said.

They don't rip your ticket these days -- they scan the barcode to ensure it can only be used once, and leave your ticket with you as a memento and to get through the next levels of security to get to your seat. So even if she had her ticket, it wouldn't have helped. She could have bought a new one, though, and unless she was behaving really badly, they would have let her in. I think I've read that they DID advise her that she'd need to buy a new ticket. That part will come out in the suit, if nothing else, though it's neither here nor there. The venue has a policy; RMC enforced it.

 

[soothsayer]

From the Hook: http://www.readthehook.com/files/im...eld_images/news-harrington-newjpjsign-web.jpg


Photo of Gil with JPJA sign about the venue's right to refuse or prevent re-entry.

 

[Amster]

Have her really close friends ever said what drug or alcohol Morgan had taken? Have any of them explained why not one of them went to help her? Were all of them under the influence of something? I know the friends are considered off limits for criticism by most....why?

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Have her really close friends ever said what drug or alcohol Morgan had taken? Have any of them explained why not one of them went to help her? Were all of them under the influence of something? I know the friends are considered off limits for criticism by most....why?

HI Amster,

Well don't get me started on her "friends", I will be barred for life here, LOL!

I will say this, I do not think they have spoken out in public, and the Harrington's have asked that they be left alone. One would hope that they have spoken to LE extensively about that night. There were some very "disrespectful" pics on the web of the "friends" at a Halloween party, and certain statements like (paraphrased) "we would never have left if we knew"

By the way--adorable kitty--Cat person, here.:cat:

 

[davehead21]

....and even that wouldn't stop someone....but for liability purposes some sort of written and posted warning should be used. Actually I thought it was printed on the ticket?
Also don't they at least tear the ticket in half, like movie theaters? Would seem like that would solve a lot of problems, at least you still have the other half to prove you paid, right?

So why was Morgan starting to look for her ripped up ticket in her purse. Were they going to allow her back in if she showed a ticket?

They stopped ripping part of the tickets off quite a few years back. They now have these ticket guns that scan the barcode on the ticket. Kind of like a price scanner thing that you see in Walmart, etc.

Like soothsayer said, no re-entry policies are the norm. It's not going to change, nor should it change because a few adults get too drunk or too drugged up to understand that they need to stay inside the venue. And this is not said in a judging way, in my younger years I did a lot of drinking before/during/after concerts. The policies are there for a reason, like I said earlier, mostly money. I would also venture to guess venues also do not want to be liable for someone going out to their car and doing a massive amount of drugs, then having a heart attack inside the venue or becoming physically aggressive toward other concert-goers.

I really don't mean for that to sound harsh, nor is it directed at you, R.U.Kidding!, I was just answering your question about the tickets. No re-entry policies have been around ever since I started going to concerts and it's a pretty well-known fact. It's not some secret rule that is kept from concert-goers, it's well stated at entrances and even sometimes on tickets.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

From the Hook: http://www.readthehook.com/files/im...eld_images/news-harrington-newjpjsign-web.jpg


Photo of Gil with JPJA sign about the venue's right to refuse or prevent re-entry.

Thanks for that link.

You seem to know a lot about this case, so let me ask you a few questions, if you don't mind?

1-Have they ever found her red camera or necklace?
2-Where was the DNA taken from--T shirt or body?
3- Has it ever been confirmed that her bones were "shattered" , or was that a figure of speech Gil used in her musings?
4- Have they ever confirmed the siting of Morgan, coming out of a "room",
by the women delivering newspaper?
5- ..and were the basketball players the only group of men she interacted with or was there also another group before them?

6--did LE ever disclose the place Morgen asked those BB players to take her?

TIA, Soothsayer

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

They stopped ripping part of the tickets off quite a few years back. They now have these ticket guns that scan the barcode on the ticket. Kind of like a price scanner thing that you see in Walmart, etc.

Like soothsayer said, no re-entry policies are the norm. It's not going to change, nor should it change because a few adults get too drunk or too drugged up to understand that they need to stay inside the venue. And this is not said in a judging way, in my younger years I did a lot of drinking before/during/after concerts. The policies are there for a reason, like I said earlier, mostly money. I would also venture to guess venues also do not want to be liable for someone going out to their car and doing a massive amount of drugs, then having a heart attack inside the venue or becoming physically aggressive toward other concert-goers.

I really don't mean for that to sound harsh, nor is it directed at you, R.U.Kidding!, I was just answering your question about the tickets. No re-entry policies have been around ever since I started going to concerts and it's a pretty well-known fact. It's not some secret rule that is kept from concert-goers, it's well stated at entrances and even sometimes on tickets.

Dave ,
Barcodded tickets??? who knew? guess I am showing my decrepit age. Like you I also did my share of concerts, drinking, smoking, but It was part of the "Woodstock" generation.LOL!

You are not being harsh--it is what it is. Heavy Metal brings it's own problems. I agree 100%, policies are in place for a reason. My only concern is without "adequate" security cameras to back-up policy, how does one go about insuring Security does not abuse their authority? Like how do we know the statements made by security were in fact the truth? That is what I am hoping this civil suit will clear up any questions left unanswered.:twocents:

....and ya gotta admit there are an abundance of those,eh?

Thanks

 

[soothsayer]

Well, I'm not by any means an authority, but I play one on the internet. :crazy: So I'll take shot, and others can chime in.

1-Have they ever found her red camera or necklace? NO, or at least not as far as we have been told.
2-Where was the DNA taken from--T shirt or body? Police have not said directly; smart money says body, and the timing between the discovery of the body and the revelation that dna was connected to a case in CODIS seems to fit (6 months, which is what folks were expecting in terms of getting back dna results), but who knows.
3- Has it ever been confirmed that her bones were "shattered" , or was that a figure of speech Gil used in her musings? Has never been confirmed.
4- Have they ever confirmed the siting of Morgan, coming out of a "room",
by the women delivering newspaper? No, that sighting has never been confirmed, and does not figure in the official police timeline.
5- ..and were the basketball players the only group of men she interacted with or was there also another group before them? Reporting in the Hook seemed to indicate that the groups of students she interacted with in the lot all turned out to be basketball players. But...who knows if they got that right.

6--did LE ever disclose the place Morgen asked those BB players to take her? They definitely have not revealed that.

 

[soothsayer]

RU Kidding, I dunno, is it even possible to overstep one's authority by enforcing a policy one has the right to enforce?

Here's another question. What if RMC had put a band aid on her chin, had let her come back in after she left, only to have her leave the arena again of her own free will, walk off the property, and come to the same untimely end? Would the Harringtons still sue security?