VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #5 *Arrests*

[5Eyz]

I have to wonder if Keepers and Eisenhauer even knew taking Nicole's body across the state line would bring in the Feds???

The FBI was already involved due to her status as an endangered child and to offer tech support. They have a whole division that deals with cell phones and digital media.

The FBI could charge them with crossing state lines to dispose of the body but typically they defer to the jurisdiction that has the higher charge. There seems to be evidence that the murder occurred in VA so they'll offer assistance and let VA handle the murder charges. I think we'd all be angry if they stepped in a insisted on charging them for a lower crime.

Federal prisons have a reputation for being nicer than state prisons because so many of the inmates are charged with non violent white collar crimes. I'd hate for DE or NK to be able to play tennis for next few years.

 

[cujenn81]

http://www.hlntv.com/shows/dr-drew/...year-old-nicole-lovell-s-murder-a-thrill-kill

Had not seen this video. Dr Drew yesterday.


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Oohh thanks for sharing this... I love Jim Clemente.

(For anyone who doesn't know, Clemente is a criminal profiler who used to work with the FBI. He was sexually abused as a child, at a religious based summer camp, and then later on in life after graduating from law school and working for the NYPD, he randomly met a guy who was abused by the same man that abused him. He decided to contact the FBI, agreed to wear a wire, met and confronted his abuser, and got him to admit his crimes. His abuser was convicted and sent to prison, and Clemente was offered a job with the FBI. Oh, and he writes episodes for Criminal Minds! )

Sorry about the service announcement... I wrote a nonprofit newsletter bio for him once, after he was a keynote speaker at a fundraiser luncheon, and I got carried away. I do find his work so impressive, though!

 

[Safeguard]

"Making the decision to have a child is momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body." -Elizabeth Stone

The above quote is so true for me, and many people I imagine...

I was thinking how most people I know, started their families thinking they were going to have the perfect little Gerber babies like they see in commercials and magazine ads...but that's not how it is. It's a crap shoot. And the stakes are so high. Sometimes, even doing all you can, is not enough.

I was raised in the "Be Home When The Street Lights Come On" era, and honestly, most of us turned out all right, I think. But I did give my parents a run for their money.

Like a litter of pups where there's that one mischievous one, that exasperating, willful, disobedient one. That was me.

I remember learning to hitchhike at 11. We had moved to a really rural area, a little friend and I were at the beach down the road one day, and we heard some older kids talking about it.

"Really?" "You mean if you just stick out your thumb like that, people will give you a ride anywhere you want to go?!"

"Pretty much." "As long as their going that way."

A few days later, same friend and I were walking along the side of the road talking about it:

"You think that's true? The thumb thing?"
"I don't know."
"Here comes a car! Let's try it!"

We stuck out our puny little thumbs, and the car stopped. It was a 19 or 20 yr old guy from the same neighborhood...

"Hi, Where are you girls going?"
"Uhhmmm" *Blink Blink* "Nowhere." (LOL!) "We were just trying it out to see if it works!"
"Well ok then", if you sure you don't need a ride, bye!"

WOW! I felt like had struck gold. I don't know if my friend felt the same way, but I definitely planned to make use of this new magic some day. By my 15th birthday I had hitchhiked cross country. Twice. Once with a friend, once alone.

I can't honestly say, that's an Odyssey I regret. I did have unbelievably fantastic experiences I would not trade for the world. There were a few close calls though, that were scary.

I spent a couple weeks in a little county jail, in Tennessee, (unaccompanied minor), because I refused to give my name, or tell where I was from. (They did figure the state was MA and they thought probably Boston, from my accent). Only when a judge asked me how I would like to be locked up in Juvie till I turned 18 did I decide to make that phone call home. heh heh.

Thing is... I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there was not one thing my parents could have done that would have kept me from doing that. Short of having me locked up. They tried many, many different things.

Sometimes, the environment, the natural temperament of the kid, past traumas ect... create a Perfect Storm, the usual navigational devices do not work, and there is no safe harbor.

Feeling really lucky to be here, tonight though...

 

[cujenn81]

I have to wonder if Keepers and Eisenhauer even knew taking Nicole's body across the state line would bring in the Feds???

My guess is a big, fat NO. If they did, they're bigger idiots than they've already proven themselves to be.

 

[Backwoods]

Just starting into this new thread, so please excuse if this echoes what someone else has posted already: I bet one reason NK is being held separately has to do with her mental health history --suicide risk. I'm sure LE doesn't want the person who will likely be their most important witness to end up dead.

 

[Bootsctr]

The FBI was already involved due to her status as an endangered child and to offer tech support. They have a whole division that deals with cell phones and digital media.

The FBI could charge them with crossing state lines to dispose of the body but typically they defer to the jurisdiction that has the higher charge. There seems to be evidence that the murder occurred in VA so they'll offer assistance and let VA handle the murder charges. I think we'd all be angry if they stepped in a insisted on charging them for a lower crime.

Federal prisons have a reputation for being nicer than state prisons because so many of the inmates are charged with non violent white collar crimes. I'd hate for DE or NK to be able to play tennis for next few years.

Thank you! Good to know. No, I'd hate for those two to playing tennis too! I really, really want them to be as miserable as possible.

 

[passionflower]

Sallye818 Yes I compared L&L as you did...........right on!
Funny how L kept a teddy bear and NK kept a minion blanket............odd creatures

 

[DatelineFan]

Wow, Safeguard!!! WOW! I was the kid that did everything I could to be as perfect as possible. We were complete opposites!

I'm so glad you're here! And that it sounds like you were safe on the road! Secondly, you probably had a much more exciting childhood than I!

 

[wgram]

That she was found

I am not sold on that. He was at the vigil I thought and they said that is where police released they had found her deceased.

 

[wgram]

As I read along, I find that I don't care too much if NK is in solitaire or not. I don't care what happens to to her in there, as long as she's not out here.

There was a guy in my city, who brutally murdered, a young women (19 yr old). One of my friends at college testified, (was a huge help in catching this guy too, very scary at the time!), The murderer did 10yrs. That's it.
Just 10. I remember my friend getting the letter they send to all witness, informing her that he was being released. That was scary too.

It would be nice to know, that she's not getting special privileges like they do in Club Fed, but I just hope to God, they don't get her off somehow, with a slap on the wrist.

Did anyone else see where she (NK) told the judge she promised not to attempt suicide before the trial?

 

[passionflower]

Taking a small suitcase (backpack?), no meds, blanket and no coat, leaving her slider window open to get back in..............all this makes me think that NL was going out to be with her boyfriend for romance and be back.
NL told her friend she wanted to run away and have family with DE.......later not this time.........she would of taken much more with her. JMOO
My grand daughter (13) brings over a backpack every time she visits. She has food, pop, ear buds, cell phone, ipad thing for music, drawing materials and who knows what else.

 

[Inthedetails]

Taking a small suitcase (backpack?), no meds, blanket and no coat, leaving her slider window open to get back in..............all this makes me think that NL was going out to be with her boyfriend for romance and be back.
NL told her friend she wanted to run away and have family with DE.......later not this time.........she would of taken much more with her. JMOO
My grand daughter (13) brings over a backpack every time she visits. She has food, pop, ear buds, cell phone, ipad thing for music, drawing materials and who knows what else.

I totally agree that NICOLE didn't plan to runaway that night.

But I do wonder if the perps were planting the idea for OTHERS - her family and LE - that Nicole ran away (as opposed to being abducted).

IDK.

 

[Backwoods]

What if DE tricked her and said he had the same medicine, don't take yours or your mom will know something is up. My gut tells me she thought she would be right back, but this is one scenario we haven't thought of.


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I wonder if maybe Nicole did not REALLY understand how vital it was that she take the medication regularly...? Perhaps when she was younger, parents didn't fully explain (understandably). not wanting to terrify her, and they just made sure they took full responsibility for seeing that she took it always. And maybe that pattern just hung on...though I'm sure she would have gained, by 13, a better intellectual understanding of its importance, maybe it just didn't seem truly "real" to her...? Paled in the light of the "new romance" on the horizon...?

 

[passionflower]

I totally agree that NICOLE didn't plan to runaway that night.

But I do wonder if the perps were planting the idea for OTHERS - her family and LE - that Nicole ran away (as opposed to being abducted).

IDK.

I am sure the perps thought it was funny to plant seeds for a happy romantic teen love affair to lure and bait NL so she would go along with the secret plan they thrilled and excited about! NL went along...I bet she was so happy thinking a collage guy loved her.................. how cruel and heartless

 

[BlueberryBird]

Re: Nicole's phone being turned off.

Do people bother to turn their phone off? I always just turn off sound or use airplane mode. I don't think I ever actually turn my phone off.

When we have state testing at school and my students have to turn in their phones, almost everybody seems to do the same. Kids hate to turn their phones off.

 

[Bootsctr]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/transcript/perfectcrime-transcript/

Here is the link for the transcribed version of last night's PBS "American Experience" documentary The Perfect Crime about Leopold and Loeb.

Some points that struck me as SOOO similar to DE and NK in comparison with Leopold and Loeb:

--ages of the victims (Nicole was 13, Bobby Franks was 14)
--both sets of accused perps were described as "wealthy and well-educated"
--As quoted in the documentary "They were the last people who had any reason to commit a kidnapping, much less a murder."
--In both of these cases, there seems to be an indictment on society (perceived increased immorality in the 20's with L&L; teens' involvement and the danger of social media with DE & NK)
--As with NK, L&L, once confronted with irrefutable evidence they'd committed the crime, detailed the whole kidnap & murder and led LE right to the body
--Both sets of alleged perps seemed to set about blaming each other upon confession
--This quote from last night's doc may fit NK & DE as well: "They literally demonstrated how they had done it and walked them through the scenes of the crime as if once they were discovered they were proud of the plotting. They became almost braggarts about it."
--Just as we WSers are having trouble deciding which perp was the mastermind, so did those in the days of L&L. At first, it seemed definite that Leopold was the cruel mastermind; as the time went on, it became obvious it was mostly planned out by Loeb, but both were just as involved.
--One commentator stated, as we have here on WS, that these two psychopaths/sociopaths seemed to hone in on each other like a special radar and their evil minds were like "kindred spirits"
--Just as lawyers and psychiatrists prob will do in DE & NK's cases, the focus was very much on L&L's youth and underdeveloped brains. They were described as still children in many ways; this is, in fact, what the judge hinged on when he handed down the decision (no capital punishment).

And, in conclusion, I think this quote from C. Darrow sums up what many of us feel about all the parents involved (those of NL, NK & DE).

"No one knows what will be the fate of the child they get or the child they bear... The mother who looks into the blue eyes of her little babe cannot help but wonder what will be the end of this child, whether it will be crowned with the greatest promises which her mind can imagine, or whether he may meet death from the gallows." -Clarence Darrow

It remains to be seen how much more similarities (and differences) we will see between this crime and the murder of Bobby Franks. (Thanks to poster meanmaryjean --way back in the beginning--for the first hint that these cases may be similar.)

WOW! Great points you do make. It is definitely worth watching. Just a couple of thoughts:

- I don't think DE is bragging in this case. Keepers is the one doing that. I likely think DE wishes he could glue her lips shut.

- I was surprised that L&L remained friends.

- I do find NK's brain to be underdeveloped and immature because I think she wanted the Minions blanket, which reminds me sort of Leopold who still talked to his teddy bear

"Richard, in particular, was "a little child emotionally, still talking to his teddy bear," one psychiatrist told the court. "He is infantile, I should say somewhere around four or five years old."

I'm still digesting all the information contained on the internet and on the PBS program.

 

[BlueberryBird]

Regarding a "side hug"...I personally am not knowledgeable about what the purpose of a "side hug" would be. I talked to my 19 year old grandson who is a U.S. Airborne Army Ranger, my 18 year old nephew who is in the U.S. Navy and they both said that a "side hug" is more or less a "greeting".
I asked both of them if they would give me a "side hug". They both said "No you deserve a full hug because we love you".

The side hug is usually a conservative Christian thing. The purpose is to avoid frontal physical contact, even with close friends and family members (i.e. a brother and sister). Since DE attended a Christian school for many years, side hugs could very well just be the "proper" way to show affection. In the environment, regular hugs would be considered inappropriate in almost all circumstances. Not that I'm suggesting he felt affection for Nicole; clearly not.

 

[jjenny]

I am not sold on that. He was at the vigil I thought and they said that is where police released they had found her deceased.

Per this article he posted on facebook that his daughter was dead hours before the press-conference:

"Lovell, however, posted on his own Facebook page at 5:40 p.m., nearly four hours before police released that Nicole had been found dead that was “devestad (sic) to learn that my daughter has been found dead! I’m so in shock I know nothing more to say, I’m broken!” he posted."

http://wsls.com/2016/02/10/nicole-lovells-father-appears-on-dr-phil/

 

[Bootsctr]

Respectfully snipped by me:

"Making the decision to have a child is momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body." -Elizabeth Stone

The above quote is so true for me, and many people I imagine...

Feeling really lucky to be here, tonight though...

:jawdrop: I bet you have some stories you could tell!! We're glad you're here tonight too! :grouphug: I was always too :chicken: to hitchhike!

 

[justavisitor]

One thing that stood out to me that DE gave his real name and real info to Nicole. (based on how her friends knew his name, his school, being an athlete etc.). That information is what led law enforcement to DE. Given how easy it is to create a fake identity online, I'm inclined to believe that initially he didn't have ulterior intentions towards Nicole. You would think that if his plan was to do something illegal and inappropriate (whether sexual acts and/or murder) from the start, he would have made an effort to hide his identity.

DE and NK's relationship also looks more than just friendship and tutoring.

Like some of you mentioned before, I think jealousy could be a factor here.

My speculative theory is this : DE and NK enter into VT. They meet at a class or tutoring. NK fells in love with DE. DE isn't interested in serious relationships, he just wants to have fun, party, hook up with many girls etc. NK is jealous of DE and is trying to build a relationship with DE being his friend. DE meets Nicole online. Nicole also is looking for dates. They start talking and start a relationship online. Then something changes between DE and Nicole. Such as she falls in love with him or wants to run away or he find out her real age or she threatens him to go public etc etc. Whatever you think it might be. It's something that he isn't happy about and doesn't want to happen. DE complains to NK about it and she mentions murdering Nicole to make it go away. NK is excited to share this with DE. Not only this gets rid of a romantic rival (Nicole), NK thinks she and DE would share this secret bond and it will bring them together forever. This would explain why NK was involved in planning but not being present in the murder (if you believe her version). That being said it wouldn't surprise me if DE brought Nicole to NK for her to talk and reason with her and it turns NK killed Nicole. If NK was in love with DE, She might have thought solving an issue for him was the way to his heart. All of this is speculative of course.