GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #3

[courtneyb]

I have lost track of the list(s) at this point :dunno:

As for DVD...eh, garage, not basement. And her father was asleep at home before her mother and friends came home. The point was that she disappeared from the home with a parent present. They were not found "negligent" despite Westerfield's defense atty using their negligence as a part of his defense.

(I may be a little sensitive about that case. We lived in the same neighborhood and participated in the search for her.)

That must have been awful for you!

 

[epiphany]

Jassiah Clark was 4. He was unsupervised and fell into a well. His mom was charged with negligent homicide. Not supervising your kids (especially when it results in harm or death) is a crime. I am not debating the sleep vs. do not sleep issue. I just know that as a parent, you are responsible for your children. If you are driving, run a red light UNINTENTIONALLY, hit another car and kill them, it is negligent homicide. Harm coming from an accident does not excuse the negligent party. It just doesn't. His case is a quick little read. :

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Jassiah-Clark-4-Baton-Rouge-20-December-2014

Respectfully BBM ^^

A quite different situation incl J's mother's known drug use:

<snip> Baton Rouge police say they found a pattern of neglect leading up to Jassiah's death and blame his mother for the child falling in a hole and drowning.

"There's been other times in the past that he has been missing for not only hours but sometimes days with no recollection of who he was with at the time," Cpl. Don Coppola said.

http://www.wbrz.com/news/mother-and-city-blame-the-other-for-child-s-death/

 

[gitana1]

Other SM? Not here....ok...

Definitely not here. At least what I have read here has not been "screaming", even if it has been some hard judgment, IMO.

I'm starting to think LE really doesn't know if it's an accident and really are waiting on other tests to come back to confirm if it was an accident or not.I'm just confused on why they said they felt there was no danger to other children.

Agreed. See below.

http://wtvr.com/2015/03/30/noah-thomas-memorial/ In the following article it states that the hard tip caused LE to open the lid.

This is what I can't get past. It doesn't make sense with an accident scenario to me.

 

[matou]

My baby napped at 10 am and 2 pm from what I can remember. Getting kids in and out of their car seats also a chore. JMO

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Okay...then the question goes back to WHY hadn't any LE thought to check the septic tank earlier in the week?? Was it because the lid was indeed hidden or buried or not in plain sight? I can't understand not thinking about a septic tank, when countless examples have been presented, and this is a rural community where they exist.

I am not accusatory, just completely baffled, and mostly down to LE's words and behavior. I almost feel like they don't want to admit that it was an accident...because they apparently never thought to look in the tank themselves. Who knows if they ever would have? A "tip" could be someone calling in to say that the lid on that particular tank was faulty or very easy to open, for all we know. That would be a credible tip. IT does not have to mean that the caller knew Noah was there.

If this was an accident...I am totally unimpressed with the handling of this case. My impression as of now is that LE knows they messed up, and that Noah got in there by himself and that is why they are trying to protect the parents while putting off the admission that they "messed up" in not finding him sooner. But of course...JMO.

Perhaps there was more than one. They did say one was put in 2002, but no one has mentioned if they destroyed or took the old one out.

 

[gitana1]

LE in a rural area should have more awareness of septic tanks than other LE, one might think. They might have them at their homes, or some of them probably do. Jmo

It seems like it should be treated like pools or wells or cars. The first thing you check.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I wonder if they lifted the lid to look inside because the opposite was true - it DID look like he could get in? I wonder of they didn't know much about septic tanks and assumed it was a couple feet deep, and not seeing him, they thought he couldn't be in there?

I wonder if they lifted it up because it may not have been on tight and not resting in its original position. Something had to make them peer into the tank for some reason. I also wonder if they were able to lift the entrance lid cover off without having to unscrew the nuts on the bolts? Sort of like the other grease tank that the little boy was found in today. They said the cover was off center a little and that is why they noticed it. So even that case the cover was not completely off even though his little body had fallen through.

What is confusing is the reporter said she saw sod placed over the area didn't she?

If so, that is contradictory because why would the police even look if they had to dig down to the cover? That just makes no logical sense to me. They would see the grass over the tank had not been disturbed.

Its for certain we don't know all about the particulars of where the cover was located exactly nor the condition when found.

With him being submerged into the bottom where the sludge is they would not be able to see him there just by looking in. That is why they had to get the septic tank guy to off load the tank.

IMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

In order to get him to work at 7:00 am, I would assume she got the baby up at least by 5:30 or so in order to have time to change and feed her before they drove to work. It would be almost 3 hours of wake time and I would think not unusual for a baby's long morning nap.

I think all babies/parents are different, if I was leaving to take my husband to work at 7, I'd get up 10 minutes before leaving, I'd put my kids in the car asleep, and take care of everything upon returning home. If they needed a diaper change before leaving, that takes 5 minutes.

 

[courtneyb]

The case of Jassiah Clark is far different. His mother is drug user who was getting high when he disappeared, scoring drugs. She let him play OUTSIDE unsupervised for hours, on not only the day he died but all the time. She also lied to police.

Drug usage typically is at play in negligent homicide charges. Lying to police and a pattern of inattentiveness also plays a part.

As to running a red light and killing someone being "negligent homicide", it depends. Most involuntary manslaughter/negligent homicide cases involving running a red light UNINTENTIONALLY, also involve illegal distractions such as talking on the phone or texting, or something else illegal, such as speeding.

And being at the wheel of a 4,000 pound vehicle, and doing something that is illegal, like texting or speeding, causing you to break another law and ultimately causing the death of an innocent, is simply different than an exhausted mother taking a nap in her home with her kids, one of whom is awake and watching tv, unless there is something else at play, such as the child has autism, is known to get into trouble, the mom is passed out, high, etc.

It just is. It's different. 4,000 pound vehicles will absolutely, certainly cause injury or damage if they hit something or someone. It is not certain that a 5 year old child left awake while mom naps in the same home will become injured.

The law is pretty clear. I cited it. Please cite to evidence that what I cited is bad law.

I understand you may not have seen it but am fairly certain that it will come out that he was outside on his own. A lot. You may want to read previous posts, and I could pm you if you'd like.

 

[ANonyMs]

Jassiah Clark was 4. He was unsupervised and fell into a well. His mom was charged with negligent homicide. Not supervising your kids (especially when it results in harm or death) is a crime. I am not debating the sleep vs. do not sleep issue. I just know that as a parent, you are responsible for your children. If you are driving, run a red light UNINTENTIONALLY, hit another car and kill them, it is negligent homicide. Harm coming from an accident does not excuse the negligent party. It just doesn't. His case is a quick little read. :

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Jassiah-Clark-4-Baton-Rouge-20-December-2014

Just went over and read through. Thanks for posting. That is certainly a heartbreaking case and I can see where someone might draw similarities to Noah's case, but I respectfully disagree that they are comparable (based on the limited info we have re: Noah's mothers actions that morning).

Jassiah Clark's mother allowed him to go outside and play in the street where they knew that hole was. She failed to report him missing for hours and lied to investigators when she did. Was he even sent outside to play? The neighbors say they never say him that day. From his COD, it sounds his death may have been prevented if he had been found sooner? (Do I understand correctly that he died of accidental drowning with hypothermia - so he fell in, and drown once hypothermia set in?)

From the info we have about Noah's mother, (granted, it is very limited) I would not but her even in the same ball park as Jassiah Clarks mother.

That said, it is a good comparison, IMO, for understanding what DOES equate to a negligent homicide charge.

 

[iamnotagolem]

The case of Jassiah Clark is far different. His mother is drug user who was getting high when he disappeared, scoring drugs. She let him play OUTSIDE unsupervised for hours, on not only the day he died but all the time. She also lied to police.

Drug usage typically is at play in negligent homicide charges. Lying to police and a pattern of inattentiveness also plays a part.

As to running a red light and killing someone being "negligent homicide", it depends. Most involuntary manslaughter/negligent homicide cases involving running a red light UNINTENTIONALLY, also involve illegal distractions such as talking on the phone or texting, or something else illegal, such as speeding.

And being at the wheel of a 4,000 pound vehicle, and doing something that is illegal, like texting or speeding, causing you to break another law and ultimately causing the death of an innocent, is simply different than an exhausted mother taking a nap in her home with her kids, one of whom is awake and watching tv, unless there is something else at play, such as the child has autism, is known to get into trouble, the mom is passed out, high, etc.

It just is. It's different. 4,000 pound vehicles will absolutely, certainly cause injury or damage if they hit something or someone. It is not certain that a 5 year old child left awake while mom naps in the same home will become injured.

The law is pretty clear. I cited it. Please cite to evidence that what I cited is bad law.

BBM, I know you just joined this case, so you may not have seen that we've heard from previous neighbors that Noah spent a lot of time outside playing w/o supervision. It may or not relate to his death, but it does seem he was left unattended a lot.

 

[mpnola]

The case of Jassiah Clark is far different. His mother is drug user who was getting high when he disappeared, scoring drugs. She let him play OUTSIDE unsupervised for hours, on not only the day he died but all the time. She also lied to police.

Drug usage typically is at play in negligent homicide charges. Lying to police and a pattern of inattentiveness also plays a part.

As to running a red light and killing someone being "negligent homicide", it depends. Most involuntary manslaughter/negligent homicide cases involving running a red light UNINTENTIONALLY, also involve illegal distractions such as talking on the phone or texting, or something else illegal, such as speeding.

And being at the wheel of a 4,000 pound vehicle, and doing something that is illegal, like texting or speeding, causing you to break another law and ultimately causing the death of an innocent, is simply different than an exhausted mother taking a nap in her home with her kids, one of whom is awake and watching tv, unless there is something else at play, such as the child has autism, is known to get into trouble, the mom is passed out, high, etc.

It just is. It's different. 4,000 pound vehicles will absolutely, certainly cause injury or damage if they hit something or someone. It is not certain that a 5 year old child left awake while mom naps in the same home will become injured.

The law is pretty clear. I cited it. Please cite to evidence that what I cited is bad law.

What the?? I don't need to cite anything about anything because I never said you cited a bad law. I was clear that I wasn't debating the sleep versus do not sleep issue, strictly talking about the fact that just because you don't mean for something to happen does not mean you hold no responsibility. Trust me, I am an only parent. An ONLY parent. That means I am on duty 24/7. I need to sleep and I need to shower sometimes, which means my child HAS to be without my eyes sometimes. We also go through all of our rules before I get in the shower- you do NOT open the door or go outside for any reason, blah blah blah. He also sleeps in my bed, so I luckily don't have to worry about him leaving while I am sleeping- he won't even leave the bed until my eyes are open! But make no mistake about it- if something happens to him, I am responsible! I am his parent. I am tasked with keeping him safe. Legal or not, morally- I am responsible.

And also, just since you brought it up- this child WAS allowed outside by himself all the time. So much so that neighbors knew him very well and had not ever even spoken to mom ever. Not a word. So, there is that.

Things are getting awfully snippy and snappy up in here and I don't even understand why. There is a difference of opinions. That's ok.

 

[Meemaw12]

Ok gotta a question

If dogs tracked Noah to the road (don't know if side road to mobile home or main road)!

Wouldn't same dogs track him to the septic tank if he was walking to It?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Perhaps there was more than one. They did say one was put in 2002, but no one has mentioned if they destroyed or took the old one out.

Wow now I hadn't thought about that. And rain water will hold in these old abandoned tanks. That's why people have drowned when they walked across them and the old concrete lid cracked and gave way. There is water in the ground anyway and the further down more moisture and water is found. It is like the old burial vaults that were breeched by water and roots coming into the vault and destroying the caskets. Now they make them stronger to resist them from breaking down after decades.

 

[Lovepink]

I've been lurking, but wanted to say thank you to those defending this mother. Until police and the CA says otherwise she hasn't committed a crime. She's a victim, and buried her son today. I should probably just step back because I'm so sad at all of the judgment here and on social media toward her.

 

[ANonyMs]

That must have been awful for you!

We did not have children yet, so I think I was able to deal with it better than I would now. Now, like so many of us here (whether we agree on various aspects of the case or not), we feel things and view things differently as parents.

 

[SStarr33]

BBM, I know you just joined this case, so you may not have seen that we've heard from previous neighbors that Noah spent a lot of time outside playing w/o supervision. It may or not relate to his death, but it does seem he was left unattended a lot.

Well, I missed that myself. Who is the verified insider?

 

[WillenFan21]

I understood that to mean when he looked in, he saw clothing - as in, the jacket maybe? At the time there was speculation that he was wrapped in a plastic bag - and maybe he was trying to say he wasn't?

I wondered if the saw the body then clothes in with it, and didn't want to reveal anymore on it due to the fact he'd be giving a lot of info by saying that he was found naked. However you could be right on with it. I could be wrong.

 

[Sweetgrits]

Your right.

They never opened the lid until they received the lead.

here is the video-

The Pulaski county Sheriff was asked: Did anyone searched inside that septic tank before Friday.

Pulaski county Sheriff response: That information was not conveyed to me and is part of the current investigation.

http://www.wdbj7.com/video/police-sa...homas/32053506

If the septic tank lid was covered with grass/sod and didn't show signs of tampering I'm sure they didn't look. The first few days of the search they were trying to cover as much ground as possible so hopefully they could find Noah alive. I don't see a problem with this.

JMO

 

[SeriouslySearching]

BBM, I know you just joined this case, so you may not have seen that we've heard from previous neighbors that Noah spent a lot of time outside playing w/o supervision. It may or not relate to his death, but it does seem he was left unattended a lot.

His mother could have been watching through the window. If I have the timing correct, his mother would have been in her late pregnancy or just had the baby when they lived there.