GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #4

[matou]

When was Dad notified at work that Noah was missing has that been shared?

Ohhhh....good question. I haven't seen that brought up at all.

 

[JeannaT]

Since no one has answered my question, I guess it's true that it's still not known how Noah got into the tank? It's still quite possible that he fell in there while he was unsupervised and the parents truly didn't know what happened to him? I'm not being argumentative.

 

[vasportsmom]

When was Dad notified at work that Noah was missing has that been shared?

I don't think that has ever been mentioned. I hadn't even thought about it before now. Surely he was told at work but he had no way home so now I'm curious about how that went down.


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[arkansasmimi]

I made that comment and was aware of the previous charge at the time but couldn't say so. I really suck at knowing things that can't be discussed openly.


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Don't beat yourself up on that one... I know I am guilty and would go out on limb to say most here have that problem at times. Especially when things are changing quickly.

 

[AnnaGrace]

Since no one has answered my question, I guess it's true that it's still not known how Noah got into the tank? It's still quite possible that he fell in there while he was unsupervised and the parents truly didn't know what happened to him? I'm not being argumentative.

You are correct. This information hasn't been released. I know you're not being argumentative and we all need to ask questions when we have one.

 

[courtneyb]

Since no one has answered my question, I guess it's true that it's still not known how Noah got into the tank? It's still quite possible that he fell in there while he was unsupervised and the parents truly didn't know what happened to him? I'm not being argumentative.

I think that the fact that they are being held with no bond, and that they are charged with felony child abuse, which involves inflicting serious physical harm on a child(ren), and one of those children are now dead, speaks volumes. I think it's known how he got into the septic tank; I just think they haven't told us.

 

[kaen]

I have no way of knowing any details but I am going to conjecture on the issue of neglect and abuse. I have known functional alcoholics who interact outside of their immediate family structure and are seen as wonderful --they go to work, they go to church, they volunteer. When their kids are in public, the loving mom and dad appears all the while the person is impaired. Then, they get their kids in private and the switch is flipped. They provide little or no emotional support. The food quality offered is a mixed bag based on cash at hand, impairment of the parent, and ability of the parent to leave the house to shop. The uneven behavior takes a toll on the child over time. When little, the child always tries to please. Then, depending on the child's temperament, the child may begin to challenge or whine or refuse. When the parent is impaired, the reactions can be varied, a combination of irrational and violent to quiet and sullen, which is further confusing. These kids get great at playing alone or fixing meals doing what they can to fly under the radar.

The families of these parents knew something was up. All many of us had to do was to look at the photo of each parent to identify something was up. That said, the ability of others to intervene is complicated by the type of parenting provided by their peers or family. How was the dad disciplined? How was the mom disciplined? If they came from families that swatted or verbal berated, then no one would have thought them doing that to their child i public was a sign of something bigger. If their friends came from low functioning families, then their model was probably close to what Noah's parents were doing--- that is the wonderful parent comments come in. Food was there. Clothes were moderately clean. They showed up on time. At the quick stop, the kids had a drink/sucker and when they got sassy the parent corrected.

Unless Noah had bruises or told people about the unevenness of home, I doubt there ever was a report from school to CPS. My guess is that the parents attempted be compliant with school matters. Many younger parents try to avoid teacher contact based on the judgment they felt in their own schooling.

 

[AnnaGrace]

I have lots of questions but don't always feel comfortable asking them!:thinking:

 

[kaen]

I think it is important for us to remember that lots of abuse and neglect cases happen behind closed doors with no one outside of the family the wiser. We read about the ones that have been brought out into the sunlight. There are many kids who experience abuse and neglect that never gets kicked to the public realm unless the child dies or seriously injured, the parent gets crazy enough to do something public or say something, or the support systems (school, health providers) create a case that compels CPS to act.

Azihya Osecola had four different complaints and was never saved from his torture. I read his CPS reports and was flabbergasted that he was not removed or evaluated outside of his father's house based on the excuses given.

 

[vasportsmom]

I have lots of questions but don't always feel comfortable asking them!:thinking:

This is the time to ask away! We likely won't have anything new to discuss for a while but everyone tends to feel guilty abandoning the thread so we end up getting grumpy and fighting over the same old things (anyone remember SeaFair in Jenise's thread or the posting of STD results on FB in Relisha's). You would be doing us a favor by asking questions and giving us something to do other than swipe at each other.


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[blue22]

Noah's mum was the one to put herself in the line of suspicion by claiming she was asleep for the 3 hour window in which he apparently disappeared. Her story puts her as the last person to see him alive - which immediately places that person as a suspect, even if they are innocent.

If Noah had died the night before and it had been nothing to do with her, would she really risk being the one who suspicion fell on? Unless she was scared of Noah's dad, and went along with what he said. Why not say the entire family had woken up that Sunday morning, and discovered Noah had gone?

The story they went with put dad in the clear, as he was apparently at work. Is that because he didn't want to get the blame for something she did?

Or were they trying to get seen on cctv to back up their story? (Although I don't know if there is any evidence to show the car traveling from their home to his work?) I find it hard to believe they had that 'clever' a plan (for want of a better word) as the disposal of Noah suggests either panic or sheer stupidity in relation to it being at home. They clearly didn't even try to stage it as an accident, as surely LE would have checked out the tank earlier if the lid had been made to look like a child had opened it. They had a car, so why put Noah where they did, which immediately pointed the finger at them.

I wonder if something happened much nearer to the morning than the night before, so time was limited if Dad had to get to work (to get an alibi).

I don't think any of this story was specifically for dad, I think it was for HER. Let's assume dad was actually scheduled for work that day and he went. That's just a given alibi. He's taken care of. Mom need something and she needed it Sunday, because Noah was due at school on Monday and how do you explain where your kid is when he's not alive? He's dead. The only choice they had (in their screwed up minds) was to put the blame far from them...someone took him. BUT, you need the time frame to be wide, because if you call LE and say "I turned my back and now my son is gone, all the searching and suspicion will be on your property. Your neighbors, your street. Too close to home and too close to people you know will be cleared. To me, that's where the nap comes in. It forces LE to have a very wide search area and they HAVE to honor that the child could have wandered or been abducted.

 

[AnnaGrace]

A question that I have and I know won't be answered at this time, is when the septic tank was pumped and the technician saw clothes, was it the little coat and rain boots on Noah or were they just in there? Another one is about the Pokémon cards and anything else found in there.

 

[courtneyb]

A question that I have and I know won't be answered at this time, is when the septic tank was pumped and the technician saw clothes, was it the little coat and rain boots on Noah or were they just in there? Another one is about the Pokémon cards and anything else found in there.

I think the coat, boots and pokemon cards were all found with Noah. Mom knew he was in that tank and what she put in there with him.

 

[JeannaT]

So today at the arraignment, they will be informed of the charges against them, and I guess "discovery" - what has led to the charges, and will have their bail assessed. And will have the chance I guess to meet with an attorney if they haven't already gotten one, and will have a chance to enter a plea.

I wonder if at this point, evidence that led to their arrests will be made public.

http://crime-punishment.yoexpert.co...ens-at-a-felony-arraignment-hearing-1807.html

 

[vasportsmom]

A question that I have and I know won't be answered at this time, is when the septic tank was pumped and the technician saw clothes, was it the little coat and rain boots on Noah or were they just in there? Another one is about the Pokémon cards and anything else found in there.

I suspect that at least the coat was just thrown in. His jacket looked kind of bulky and that hole looked small so why make it any harder than it has to be by putting the jacket on him (horrible, horrible people)? I would also love to know about the Pokemon cards. Was that something LE was trying to keep quiet so only the kidnapper would know about them or was it just a mistake by whichever group it was that printed that flier.


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[AnnaGrace]

One of the things (among several others) that really made my hinky meter go out of whack was when the cards was added to the poster. Not to mention the time changes, the scent ending at the driveway, etc., then no scent leading to the septic tank, made me think he was carried to his final disposal.

 

[kaen]

If they go to court today and plead guilty to the abuse and neglect charges, they can still be charged with murder or a higher level charge for what happened to Noah. Right? I would love the lawyers here to help me understand if there is any risk in the state adding charges later on.

 

[JeannaT]

I think the coat, boots and pokemon cards were all found with Noah. Mom knew he was in that tank and what she put in there with him.

I'm wondering about the coat thing. If mom put him in the tank with the coat and boots on, and then later reported he went missing but did NOT mention the coat until asked to look for it, and then "discovered" it was missing, that's pure genius. I just don't give her credit for being that smart to fake that she didn't realize he was wearing a coat to wander around outside until looking for it and then later reporting he must have had it with him.

If what LE has said is true, that she initially reported him missing and then later when pressed further appeared to realize his coat was also missing and so his description was amended - it just seems to me that that is a evidence of innocence. Someone who disposed of a child in a septic tank on purpose would say he was wearing that coat. IMHO.

 

[YidArmyRach]

I think it is important for us to remember that lots of abuse and neglect cases happen behind closed doors with no one outside of the family the wiser. We read about the ones that have been brought out into the sunlight. There are many kids who experience abuse and neglect that never gets kicked to the public realm unless the child dies or seriously injured, the parent gets crazy enough to do something public or say something, or the support systems (school, health providers) create a case that compels CPS to act.

Azihya Osecola had four different complaints and was never saved from his torture. I read his CPS reports and was flabbergasted that he was not removed or evaluated outside of his father's house based on the excuses given.

Often abused children display no signs of it at school. They thrive on the routine, order and kindness shown, so will be in their element there and be model students, enjoying the praise for doing things right and wanting to be helpful. If parents don't want any outside interest shown, they will ensure their child is clean and tidy. Its outside of school that sometimes things show. I remember collecting my children from their school and noticing that one child would come out of the classroom smiling, and would immediately would start to cry in the playground as soon as she was with her mum. I followed them a few days just as I was concerned, and noticed that the child would be crying all the way down the road, mother showing no kindness or interest in the day the little girl had just had. They wouldn't hold hands, the mum would be on her phone, ignoring the child. I reported it to the school and they said that they had their own concerns but had needed more information and what I told them had confirmed some things.

I guess this case is just a reminder that we can all use our eyes and instincts to pass information on, even if we think its nothing or we are being nosey. I've been told many times that CPS often needs lots and lots of information, that little things can tie a case together and so on. Perhaps we can prevent the next little Noah from happening by acting on our instinct and by passing on even tiny concerns.

 

[AnnaGrace]

I suspect that at least the coat was just thrown in. His jacket looked kind of bulky and that hole looked small so why make it any harder than it has to be by putting the jacket on him (horrible, horrible people)? I would also love to know about the Pokemon cards. Was that something LE was trying to keep quiet so only the kidnapper would know about them or was it just a mistake by whichever group it was that printed that flier.


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I don't think it was a mistake. JMO