GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #6

[JeannaT]

Okay, so I found the case I've been referring to. Loic Rogers, in Montana. Note that in the first article, after discovering the boy's remains in the septic tank, the sheriff "declined" at that point to call it murder, but wondered how the lid was replaced if the child merely fell in accidentally by himself.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/01/28/missing-montana-boy-3-found-dead-in-septic-tank/

and a few days later, death of Loic was ruled "accidental":

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/02/06/death-toddler-found-in-septic-tank-ruled-accidental/

If you've seen it once, it seems it could happen again.

 

[courtneyb]

True, this particular case you linked to was ruled accidental, but they still don't know how it happened. There weren't any witnesses, and the act of ruling something "accidental" doesn't make it an accident. It's how the incident happens that determines whether or not it was an accident. With no witnesses or explanation of what happened, the ruling is just that: a ruling. It does not alter reality.

And the case you are referring to may very well be an accident. No one knows.

It's scary, but I'm sure everyone has heard of cases where the ruling was wrong. It happens far too often. Homicides ruled suicides, homicides ruled accidental, a kidnapping victim is labeled a "runaway" and isn't allowed the resources they would have if they were determined to be a kidnapping victim.

I'm fairly certain someone way back posted a link to a story where a child fell in the septic tank while a parent was close by and they saw the lid fall back in place. Maybe you have seen that story?

I'd like to read that again because I THINK that the lid in that case was a hinged type lid, different than in this case. But I am not at all certain about that; I'm going to see if I can find that one I'm thinking of again.


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[KristiA]

What you're saying stands to reason - except we've seen where it DID happen before. I wish I could find this case, but I've looked and can't. I think it was Florida, about 5 years ago. A curious little boy lifted a septic tank top (reminder - this septic tank lid on Noah's property was NOT secured with bolts - the first responders were able to lift the lid and look in with no apparent difficulty), squatted down on the edge of the opening, fell in, and when he fell in the tank top closed on top of the opening. Since it has happened before, it seems it could happen again. Of course, we are not being given information about the tank top except to say it's blue, plastic, and weighs about 2 pounds.

Can you please provide the link where it states that the lid on Noah's property was NOT bolted down? I am having trouble finding it. TIA


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[blue22]

I hope this doesn't sound too strange but I don't know if that is the worst thing in the world. The people I know who are habitual pot smokers do it when they need to relax like before dental appointments or stressful meetings. I imagine he uses it an emotional crutch. I am also not surprised he admitted it considering his circumspect nature.

LOL...don't think he was making any dental appointments or meetings.

I suspect he was a stereotypical pothead...and mostly useless in most ways.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

But isn't this all rather irrelevant in the case of little Noah, considering it was reported that the lid of the tank he was found in was actually buried beneath sod?

Okay, so I found the case I've been referring to. Loic Rogers, in Montana. Note that in the first article, after discovering the boy's remains in the septic tank, the sheriff "declined" at that point to call it murder, but wondered how the lid was replaced if the child merely fell in accidentally by himself.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/01/28/missing-montana-boy-3-found-dead-in-septic-tank/

and a few days later, death of Loic was ruled "accidental":

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/02/06/death-toddler-found-in-septic-tank-ruled-accidental/

If you've seen it once, it seems it could happen again.

 

[JeannaT]

But isn't this all rather irrelevant in the case of little Noah, considering it was reported that the lid of the tank he was found in was actually buried beneath sod?

It couldn't have been buried beneath the sod. While the first responders were waiting in the yard for further instruction on the search, they looked into the septic tank. From what I understand from MSM, the top of the septic tank was completely accessible, with no tools. The first responders, while milling around in the yard initially, lifted the lid and had a "look see". By some accounts, they stated they saw something but were overruled for further investigation until much later in the search.

If the lid were buried beneath sod, there would be NO QUESTION whatsoever if someone put Noah in the septic tank (whoever that might be would still be open to question). There is no way he could possibly have fallen in, and the lip flapped closed and sod then formed over the lid. That would be a definite "foul play". As it stands now, it hasn't been stated whether LE believes he fell in due to neglect on the part of his parents, or he was placed in there.

 

[JeannaT]

Can you please provide the link where it states that the lid on Noah's property was NOT bolted down? I am having trouble finding it. TIA



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I'm popping in for only a moment and don't have time to do it right now. I deduced that based on the MSM reporting that first responders, in the first 1/2 hour of arriving on the scene, did a cursory glance into the septic tank. It didn't seem that anyone with tools was called onto the scene to remove the lid and look in - this was just something they did as they walked around the property.

 

[SStarr33]

Denied, denied, denied! In my un-legal, layman's opinion, considering their son, Noah, disappeared, then their daughter removed from their care, then admitting to lying to officers who were there to help find their son, who then happens to be found in the septic tank on the property, it's my opinion they are both right where they need to be :jail:

Maybe in similar felony neglect/abuse cases, the parents would have been granted bond, as PT atty stated last week, but why would innocent parents lie to police officers, who are at your home for the sole purpose of searching for your missing son,after you called them thereto help find him??!! And then it just so happens he's found days later in the septic tank on the property?

I was pretty shocked at the dramatic difference in her appearence today, compared to her mug shot from only 17 days ago. I realize when a person is removed from a possibly unhealthy lifestyle, the changes in appearence alone are obvious, but it's only been 17 days since first seeing her in a mug shot! Her face alone looks as if she's gained 30 pounds since then!! I'm off to catch up on reading posts again...

She was heavy in the photo that was published of her in front of the courthouse. She doesn't look like she has gained any weight at all to me.

 

[EllieBee]

She was heavy in the photo that was published of her in front of the courthouse. She doesn't look like she has gained any weight at all to me.

She did look heavy in that walking-to-court picture. Well, I mean heavy as in "not all methed out".

I really think drugs had something to do with this, but AW does not look drug skinny. She does have some meth sores on her face though.

 

[cluciano63]

What you're saying stands to reason - except we've seen where it DID happen before. I wish I could find this case, but I've looked and can't. I think it was Florida, about 5 years ago. A curious little boy lifted a septic tank top (reminder - this septic tank lid on Noah's property was NOT secured with bolts - the first responders were able to lift the lid and look in with no apparent difficulty), squatted down on the edge of the opening, fell in, and when he fell in the tank top closed on top of the opening. Since it has happened before, it seems it could happen again. Of course, we are not being given information about the tank top except to say it's blue, plastic, and weighs about 2 pounds.

Then it was not childproof...

 

[courtneyb]

I personally couldn't tell much about her weight... The only photo I saw of her was one in which she appeared to be wearing a too big, bulky coat. She appeared thinner to me today, but I think it was likely the coat.

Honestly, the only opinion I had when I saw her on the video was that I thought she looked too well for a mother who had just lost a child.


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[SStarr33]

In the state I worked in, when a child was taken into protective custody we had to at least explore relatives and document that we tried. Many times, the child would be put into foster care and a hearing would be held within 30 days of the date they were removed to determine if the child was to stay in care or if a suitable family member could be found. Unfortunately, many times when it's so bad a child must be removed, there isn't always a safe family member. Also, if any other relatives have a current open CPS case they could not be considered. It's been about three years so I'm forgetting some of the legal terms but generally, if a child is removed theres a hearing within 72 hours if the parents contest the removal, (they can also present family members at this time as well) and then in 30 days is the official adjudication hearing if I'm remembering correctly. I feel like one of the family members would have bragged on facebook by now about having the baby, imo. I personally think shes in foster care. But, that could change if a suitable relative comes forward. Given the facts of the criminal case, they prob want to take their time and due diligence when exploring relatives. We once had to keep a baby in care for the whole 30 days until her father in California could fly across country to get her. It was sad it took so long but California had to do the background check and everything on him, check his home, etc.

Yes, one of them has stated they have the child.

 

[SStarr33]

She did look heavy in that walking-to-court picture. Well, I mean heavy as in "not all methed out".

I really think drugs had something to do with this, but AW does not look drug skinny. She does have some meth sores on her face though.

Could just be acne or cystic acne. I'm reserving judgement on drugs until we get some testing results or other evidence.

 

[Schmaley]

LOL...don't think he was making any dental appointments or meetings.

I suspect he was a stereotypical pothead...and mostly useless in most ways.

I simply meant that is used prior to stressful situations. A lot of drug users don't have emotional capacity to deal with stress/grief/guilt/pain or anything he might have been feeling.

 

[Schmaley]

Am I the only one who thinks AW's weight is the least of her concerns?

 

[SStarr33]

Am I the only one who thinks AW's weight is the least of her concerns?

Not if her weight has to do with being on drugs.

 

[2Hope4]

I don't care if she was using drugs or not....will have no bearing on me if I was on the jury.

Drugs or not, those children were left alone. I want to know how little Noah ended up in that septic tank, when, why, and if he had prior injuries!

Yes there are accidents that happen, but intentially choosing to leave two young kids home alone, not knowing if you're going to have a car accident, get a ticket for something, or what may happen, and no one would know the little kids were by themselves and needed help! And as of right now, I don't think we know how long they were truly by themselves either! It could have been all morning long! And this could have been their habit as well.

If either were drug users, I hope the detox was a good ride!! Other than that, I don't care, because it's not defense for leaving those kids alone, and it's not defense for little Noah being dead! JMO! But I would give it a second thought in a trial UNLESS the toxicology comes back and Noah and his sister had drugs in their system, then it becomes important to me.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

But isn't this all rather irrelevant in the case of little Noah, considering it was reported that the lid of the tank he was found in was actually buried beneath sod?

Lets not forget both parents are in jail (bond denied at all) due to abuse and neglect charges which led to the death of Noah. Quite different in all regards. JMO

 

[AnnaGrace]

Lets not forget both parents are in jail (bond denied at all) due to abuse and neglect charges which led to the death of Noah. Quite different in all regards. JMO

Do we know of other abuse and neglect cases, leading to the death of a child, where the parents were denied bond? It seems in Noah's case that bond isn't being considered until the toxicology report comes back. Is this normal if the parents simply left the child alone and an accident occurred that caused his/her death? Simply means if that is what the charge is based on. There is no justification for leaving a five year old and a six month old at home alone. IMO

 

[AnnaGrace]

But isn't this all rather irrelevant in the case of little Noah, considering it was reported that the lid of the tank he was found in was actually buried beneath sod?

I wish we knew for sure if the lid was buried or not. It's been reported both ways. We know from one of the posters here, who had a relative living in front, that it was under sod until Nov 2014. Then we have the photo showing the ground dug up over the tank. That photo was taken by WSLS after Noah was found.