VA - Scott Fricker, 48, & Buckley Kuhn-Fricker, 43, slain, Reston, 22 Dec 2017 *daughter’s bf charged*

[thepinkdragon]

She wasn't in a court of law that required an investigation to show proof. She was a concerned mother and community member who brought her concerns to school authorities.

We can just agree to disagree. I think she could have gone about it differently. Everything I have seen quoted in how she approached the situation shows me she used her lawyering approach instead of her concerned parent approach to get her point across. I personally feel it was what led to this horrific conclusion. JMO


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[Inthedetails]

We can just agree to disagree. I think she could have gone about it differently. Everything I have seen quoted in how she approached the situation shows me she used her lawyering approach instead of her concerned parent approach to get her point across. I personally feel it was what led to this horrific conclusion. JMO


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Yes, I agree to disagree.

And I bet we agree that SHE thought she was doing the right thing.

 

[thepinkdragon]

Yes, I agree to disagree.

And I bet we agree that SHE thought she was doing the right thing.

Very true.


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[JaneEyre]

According to the article, the mowing incident happened in October and his parents were made aware and they claimed he was getting help. As far as sending an email to his school, what did she think that would accomplish? They aren’t babysitters or psychologists. Unless he was conducting racist behavior at school there wasn’t anything they could have done. Instead it comes across as shaming. I don’t think either set of parents knew what they were dealing with. MOO


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You asked if her parents were aware of the mowing incident in October, and it was not clear to me that they would have been.

I don't think that notifying a school of hate speech by a student is "shaming," either. They were reporting red flags that the school needed to be aware of, especially since they no longer wanted their daughter to have contact with this person at school or anywhere. They did the responsible thing, IMO.

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[Doghairrules]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...0acf0774e64_story.html?utm_term=.51d85fc8b726

Potter said residents decided to send an emissary to the family’s home to discuss the swastika a couple days after it was discovered. Potter said the teen’s parents admitted he had mowed the symbol into the grass. She said they were aware of his behavioral issues and were getting him treatment.

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This makes me wonder if the two sets of parents ever discussed these issues.

 

[Inthedetails]

Very true.


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And we have peace on earth! Or at least on this thread.

 

[Lilibet]

You’re right. There was no reason nor excuse for him to kill her. My whole point was they had no idea what they were dealing with and I think people need to think before they react.


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BBM

I do agree with you in principle, especially when it comes to gesturing or giving people dirty looks when they cut you off driving. People are volatile and that’s a stupid risk to take.

Based only on what we know, I would have preferred that she’d have taken a more measured approach. But we only know about the intervention and email to the school and phone call to his mother. She may have been trying for months to dilute his influence on her daughter. At some point it became too much. She was a mama bear protecting her young. She knew this boy and I’m sure she couldn’t imagine him being violent. I’ve seen his photo and I wouldn’t imagine it either (and no, we can’t post it). This was not a burly Nazi skinhead by any means. And he may have been an “Eddie Haskell” around the family (dating myself with a “Leave it to Beaver” reference).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Haskell

 

[animlzrule]

I think it's important to keep in mind that we're not talking about petty mischief, vandalizing, or typical teenage romance/conflict here either. This country is in a fight against the normalization of right wing/Neo-nazi ideology right now. This is scary and serious stuff and warranted an aggressive reaction.

 

[thepinkdragon]

You asked if her parents were aware of the mowing incident in October, and it was not clear to me that they would have been.

I don't think that notifying a school of hate speech by a student is "shaming," either. They were reporting red flags that the school needed to be aware of, especially since they no longer wanted their daughter to have contact with this person at school or anywhere. They did the responsible thing, IMO.

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Without more of the context of the email it’s hard to say what she asked to be done. Again, I just feel things could have been gone about differently. To stop her daughter from seeing and talking to him, texting his parents and emailing the school in rapid succession could have sent this boy into a psychotic rage. I don’t think her parents realized the potential danger they were in when they chose to go about addressing the situation in the manner they did.

That’s all I’m going to say. I’ve made my point and I respect others opinions. I agree to disagree.


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[JaneEyre]

We hear about school shootings all the time. What i he did something like shoot at school or do something less violent like posting a Nazi flag in his locker and waving it Jewish students - perhaps inciting hostilities among the students....and then people find out that the girlfriend's parents knew about him but didn't do anything? It's a hypothetical situation, but not an unreasonable one and likely something the parents considered.

I really think they felt a moral obligation to react and to react strongly.

What else should they have done, I wonder?

jmopinion

Exactly. People complain all the time on these threads and elsewhere that red flags were ignored and that somebody should have done something. These people did something, and now it feels like they're being blamed for him becoming completely unhinged.

This is on him and possibly his parents, not these victims. The victims did the responsible thing. The mother was a lawyer. She likely thought good and hard about what actions to take.

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[thepinkdragon]

Exactly. People complain all the time on these threads and elsewhere that red flags were ignored and that somebody should have done something. These people did something, and now it feels like they're being blamed for him becoming completely unhinged.

This is on him and possibly his parents, not these victims. The victims did the responsible thing. The mother was a lawyer. She likely thought good and hard about what actions to take.

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I don’t blame them. I just think they didn’t think about any potential violent reaction.


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[Doghairrules]

I just want to add that I appreciate the discussion about what either set of parents could have done or done differently. I think that only helps possibly prevent someone else going through this. It’s a terrible situation with no easy answers.

I also love the respectful agreeing to disagree.

Carry on.

 

[JaneEyre]

We can just agree to disagree. I think she could have gone about it differently. Everything I have seen quoted in how she approached the situation shows me she used her lawyering approach instead of her concerned parent approach to get her point across. I personally feel it was what led to this horrific conclusion. JMO


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Personally, I feel that the fact that an unhinged teenager whose issues were not properly addressed and who had access to a gun is what led to this horrific conclusion.

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[thepinkdragon]

Personally, I feel that the fact that an unhinged teenager whose issues were not properly addressed and who had access to a gun is what led to this horrific conclusion.

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I agree. Sadly I don’t think anyone thought he would resort to violence.


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[Lilibet]

And we have peace on earth! Or at least on this thread.

eace: :giggle:

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

So you believe it was wrong to let the school and his parents know that she was no longer allowed to be around him? It seems like common sense to me to notify the other parents and the school not only that they wanted him to stay away (and to tell them he had been sneaking in their house at night), but why it had come to this.

It's not clear to me if they knew about the swastika or not, because we have no idea if they lived in the same neighborhood. It sounds to me like his neighbors discussed it but that it wasn't widely known outside of the neighborhood.

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Not the same neighborhood. Guessing about 30 miles apart.

I'm local to this one.

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[Hatfield]

BBM

I do agree with you in principle, especially when it comes to gesturing or giving people dirty looks when they cut you off driving. People are volatile and that’s a stupid risk to take.

Based only on what we know, I would have preferred that she’d have taken a more measured approach. But we only know about the intervention and email to the school and phone call to his mother. She may have been trying for months to dilute his influence on her daughter. At some point it became too much. She was a mama bear protecting her young. She knew this boy and I’m sure she couldn’t imagine him being violent. I’ve seen his photo and I wouldn’t imagine it either (and no, we can’t post it). This was not a burly Nazi skinhead by any means. And he may have been an “Eddie Haskell” around the family (dating myself with a “Leave it to Beaver” reference).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Haskell

Re BBM and JMO

I agree and I think most all of us agree the slain mother probably thought she was doing the right thing. In hindsight it is easy to see that her actions were likely the trigger that set the boyfriend off on a killing rampage.

We have the luxury of seeing that now but the mother probably thought the worst that could happen was maybe some nasty text messages or nasty phone calls. She obviously did not expect the boy would go on a killing rampage. If she had been able to see the future then she likely would have changed her approach.

If I read things right then from the boys point of view I could almost see why he may have flipped out.
-Permanent loss of his "love".
-Possibly or even likely he could get kicked out of his school because of the letter that was sent to the school which was the same school the girl went to.
-Possible shaming by his schoolmates as news spread to other schoolmates.
-Embarrassment with his own parents since they were also directly informed by the slain mother.

From his point of view his life was ending as he knew it.
I know that is an extreme view of what he may have felt but based on his extreme murderous actions it is probably pretty close to what he felt.

This case is something we can learn from in that we really dont know how other people are going to react when interacting with them in a negative way.

Regarding the BBM part which relates to this case in the way we all have to sometimes deal with others in a negative way.
I constantly have discussions with my wife about how to behave on the road when other drivers do perceived "wrongs". My approach which I firmly believe is the best way to stay safe is to usually bite my tongue and ignore things for the most part with an occasional honk of the horn if the situation really deserves that or to honk for safety reasons to make sure the other driver knows I am there on the road with them. My wife's approach which I have a very hard time convincing her is not the right way is to become hostile with the other driver and yell out the window or give a certain finger gesture. I have tried to explain to her that one of these days she will do that to the wrong person who is having a very bad day and things will not turn out good. She seems to agree but I fear when I am not with her that she resorts back to her approach

I guess the point is that people can be unpredictable and even hostile at times especially when it is a negative situation so IMO we need to be cautious in our approaches with dealing with people when the situation is a negative one. The mother had the right idea to protect her child but obviously nobody wanted things to end up with dead people so there had to be a better way.

 

[thepinkdragon]

Re BBM and JMO

I agree and I think most all of us agree the slain mother probably thought she was doing the right thing. In hindsight it is easy to see that her actions were likely the trigger that set the boyfriend off on a killing rampage.

We have the luxury of seeing that now but the mother probably thought the worst that could happen was maybe some nasty text messages or nasty phone calls. She obviously did not expect the boy would go on a killing rampage. If she had been able to see the future then she likely would have changed her approach.

If I read things right then from the boys point of view I could almost see why he may have flipped out.
-Permanent loss of his "love".
-Possibly or even likely he could get kicked out of his school because of the letter that was sent to the school which was the same school the girl went to.
-Possible shaming by his schoolmates as news spread to other schoolmates.
-Embarrassment with his own parents since they were also directly informed by the slain mother.

From his point of view his life was ending as he knew it.
I know that is an extreme view of what he may have felt but based on his extreme murderous actions it is probably pretty close to what he felt.

This case is something we can learn from in that we really dont know how other people are going to react when interacting with them in a negative way.

Regarding the BBM part which relates to this case in the way we all have to sometimes deal with others in a negative way.
I constantly have discussions with my wife about how to behave on the road when other drivers do perceived "wrongs". My approach which I firmly believe is the best way to stay safe is to usually bite my tongue and ignore things for the most part with an occasional honk of the horn if the situation really deserves that or to honk for safety reasons to make sure the other driver knows I am there on the road with them. My wife's approach which I have a very hard time convincing her is not the right way is to become hostile with the other driver and yell out the window or give a certain finger gesture. I have tried to explain to her that one of these days she will do that to the wrong person who is having a very bad day and things will not turn out good. She seems to agree but I fear when I am not with her that she resorts back to her approach

I guess the point is that people can be unpredictable and even hostile at times especially when it is a negative situation so IMO we need to be cautious in our approaches with dealing with people when the situation is a negative one. The mother had the right idea to protect her child but obviously nobody wanted things to end up with 3 dead people so there had to be a better way.

Thank you! This is exactly what I think. I’m glad you were able to articulate it in the way I could not. I had a hard time trying to describe my thoughts without making it too personal.


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[al66pine]

On receivinginfo from girl-student’s parents re the boy-student’s stmts & actions, whatcould their school have done which would have (likely? /definitely?) changedthe boy’s later decision to get gun & shoot ppl at her house days? /weeks? /months later?

1. What could publicschool have done prevent actions he eventually took?
   
2. Would school’s (hypo) call to LE have made adiff?
   
3. What could LEhave done that would have prevented his eventual actions?
   
4. Could this privateschool have ‘done something’ re boy’s non-school stmts and/or actions? W
   

Do we have concreteinfo about what info specifically her parents communicated to school? Difficultfor me to conclude, even in hindsight, that school, local LE or even FBI c/hprevented this tragedy. AFAIK per MSM, the boy’s prior actions were not criminaland not even grounds for school suspension or expulsion. That is, until hismore recent actions (shooting theparents) which were mos’def’ criminal.

His parents???????????

Sad, sad, sad,unbearably tragic.

_________________________________________________________


* IIUC, the kids did not attend public schooland the boy’s inapprop. stmts & actions did not take place at school orotherwise relate to school (for ex, on school bus, school’s sports team event, homeor away). Likely IMO not grounds for disciplinary action, suspension, etc.

"Family and friends of the Frickers said the couple had grown so worried about their daughter's relationship with the 17-year-old that they contacted officials at the private school the two youths attended to share their concerns about his suspected neo-Nazi view." https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/12/26/teen-suspected-in-couples-death-linked-to-swastika-carving/

 

[thepinkdragon]

On receivinginfo from girl-student’s parents re the boy-student’s stmts & actions, whatcould their school have done which would have (likely? /definitely?) changedthe boy’s later decision to get gun & shoot ppl at her house days? /weeks? /months later?

1. What could publicschool have done prevent actions he eventually took?
   
2. Would school’s (hypo) call to LE have made adiff?
   
3. What could LEhave done that would have prevented his eventual actions?
   
4. Could this privateschool have ‘done something’ re boy’s non-school stmts and/or actions? W
   

Do we have concreteinfo about what info specifically her parents communicated to school? Difficultfor me to conclude, even in hindsight, that school, local LE or even FBI c/hprevented this tragedy. AFAIK per MSM, the boy’s prior actions were not criminaland not even grounds for school suspension or expulsion. That is, until hismore recent actions (shooting theparents) which were mos’def’ criminal.

His parents???????????

Sad, sad, sad,unbearably tragic.

_________________________________________________________


* IIUC, the kids did not attend public schooland the boy’s inapprop. stmts & actions did not take place at school orotherwise relate to school (for ex, on school bus, school’s sports team event, homeor away). Likely IMO not grounds for disciplinary action, suspension, etc.

"Family and friends of the Frickers said the couple had grown so worried about their daughter's relationship with the 17-year-old that they contacted officials at the private school the two youths attended to share their concerns about his suspected neo-Nazi view." https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/12/26/teen-suspected-in-couples-death-linked-to-swastika-carving/

Thank you! My thoughts as well. At least I know I’m not totally out there with my line of thinking.


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