VA VA - The Colonial Parkway Murders, 1986-89

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However, if I had to choose the most likely scenario I think it is highly likely that the 1984 Hall-Margaret murders and 1989 Lauer-Phelps murders are connected.

Why do you think those murders are connected? They were a significant distance apart and the Hall - Margaret murders were in a hidden, remote location away from nearby roads. It was a hide out of sorts where local young people went to get high, back in the trees, under a hill. Their killer likely knew them personally to have known where to find them. JMO

OTOH, Lauer and Phelps were likely accosted in a well-traveled lover's lane location in a national park.

The Colonial Parkway murders were unique in that they were young, strong couples who were attacked in semi-public areas by (most likely) a single killer. That's a rare type of crime. It's not like accosting a woman alone in a parking lot or hitchhiking down a road at night. For purposes of crime statistics, its not the same as getting in an argument in a bar and killing someone in a fight or robbing someone in a drug deal gone bad.

JMO
 
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It has happened, but first you must remember that serial murder is EXCEEDINGLY rare , and many cases, can have similar looking factors on its face

California, Texas and Florida have had cases, happening concurrently in the past.

For example, The Calder oil fields "Texas Killing Fields" are a good example though it has yet to be proven that it was several serial offenders in the same area , it seems "likely" in a few cases, but until they are solved we cant say whether or not that holds true

In the Texas cases, I feel at least 2 serial offenders seem to have been operating in the same area .

However In this case, im not sure theres even 1 serial offender responsible, and I dont think Im alone in that

Given double homicides are rare, and in this case we have 4 (possibly 5) all in a 60 mile radius, though its rare , it doesn't seem to exhibit the characteristics of serial murder or murderers

What we look for in serial cases is what is called "Personation" when this is repeated over separate crimes, we call it "Signature" In this case, theres little of the same "sentiment" repeated over several different cases, the offender may change the way they do things but theyll never change the why , that doesn't happen, MO which is the "how" they operate, "signature" is the WHY , its the reason they do what they do .

MO can, will and does change over time as they get better at what they so , but the signature, the reason they are doing it , never will .

The signature exhibits the psychological needs of the offender .

In the Colonial parkway case. it seems like you have several different motives, though the areas in which they were committed were similar and it involved couples, on weekends or holidays.

In one case, it appears a car was dumped there with the hopes it would be linked to the ongoing cases in the area .

Beyond that There lies speculation, was it a serial killer ? ..Possibly, I don't think so , I could be wrong, I respect the hell out of Jim Clemente and his experience certainly trumps mine, and he seems to indicate in the documentary that he feels its possible, However other investigators did not. ......But again, if it isn't wasn't then that isn't any better , as now you have a group of killers (not out of the realm of possibility either) all running around the same area.


I've one idea in mind, I know this is a long shot, but maybe worth mentioning.

I live in FL, south of Hillsborough County which has had a number of unsolved murders over the years. Decedents found, some ID'd, some UID, mostly in remote areas of the county, such as off of I-75. Others, off of main roads.

What if the Colonial Parkway was considered an area, because of its remoteness, to be taken advantage of? I realize this brings up the issue of why more dead bodies were not found (there were a few murders in the area not considered part of the Colonial Parkway, such as Anita Louise Wynn) there. I do think location has a lot to do with it.
 
I wonder if the Jeff Scott/Karen Noble murders of 1978 in WV can be connected to any of the CP murders. Jeff's truck was set on fire which reminded me of the Cathy/Becky CP murder case. Even though Jeff and Karen were found shot.

Is it just me or does there seem to be a higher than normal rate of couples murders in those states?
 
Why do you think those murders are connected? They were a significant distance apart and the Hall - Margaret murders were in a hidden, remote location away from nearby roads. It was a hide out of sorts where local young people went to get high, back in the trees, under a hill. Their killer likely knew them personally to have known where to find them. JMO

OTOH, Lauer and Phelps were likely accosted in a well-traveled lover's lane location in a national park.

The Colonial Parkway murders were unique in that they were young, strong couples who were attacked in semi-public areas by (most likely) a single killer. That's a rare type of crime. It's not like accosting a woman alone in a parking lot or hitchhiking down a road at night. For purposes of crime statistics, its not the same as getting in an argument in a bar and killing someone in a fight or robbing someone in a drug deal gone bad.

JMO

Lauer-Phelps were found near the New Kent I-64 westbound exit where their car was discovered 6 weeks earlier, not on the CP. It is surmised that they were taken from the eastbound exit when they were abducted.

Where the bodies and the car were discovered were almost equidistant between where the Hall-Margaret bodies were discovered 37 miles to the west and where the Dowski-Thomas bodies were discovered 38 miles to the east. The figures are approximate and might be off by a mile or so. I am not great with getting an exact location and navigating maps. Also, they are different if one use the car site or where the bodies were discovered.

The area where Hall and Margaret were found is not that remote now, but I believe it was back in 1984. I am not familiar with the area. If you go about 2 miles west of that location residential housing starts getting sparse, and if you go another 3 miles it is really sparsely populated. It is 3.5-4 miles from an I-64 exit (different intersections are listed by sources), but I don’t know if that exit existed in 1984. They were stabbed and had their throats cut. They were also drugged (Demerol)which is a discrepancy. It is assumed they took the drugs voluntarily. I have read conflicting reports that they partied the night of their disappearance and other reports that the party was the night before. There are statements that they had a large amount of cash like Lauer allegedly had. There could be a drug transaction angle, which is a possibility with the Lauer-Phelps case. Hall’s shoes were missing which is a bit odd and similar to most of the CP murders, although Dowski-Thomas had their shoes. In addition, there was a blanket used, and it was found near the bodies. Lauer-Phelps were covered by a blanket.

So both cases have a 21 yo male and 18 year old female. Possible drug connection. Allegedly carrying a sizable amount of cash for the time period. Blanket used for some purpose and displayed. Keys in ignition, door ajar (not sure if Lauer’s car had an open door, but many of the other CP cases did). Within 40 miles of each other. Both couples were planning to leave the area the night they were killed. The way they were killed is more similar to the Dowski-Thomas killing and the location was near the car. While D-T were found in the car, and L-P were found 1.5 miles from their car.

I don’t remember reading or hearing about this case back in the 1980s. Doesn’t mean I didn’t come across it around the time. Now with internet maps and some time to read about the case, I think there is a possible connection. This might have been the first killings of a series. Could have been a random attack as well done by a friend or local acquaintance, but in my opinion it is connected at least to some of the CP killings. In my estimation most likely the L-P one and possibly the C-T one.

Too Close For Comfort--Donna Hall & Mike Margaret Double Murder

This is a decent website, but I am leery of some the facts presented. However, it does have pictures of the crime scene if one is interested in what the area looks like back in 1984.
 
I've one idea in mind, I know this is a long shot, but maybe worth mentioning.

I live in FL, south of Hillsborough County which has had a number of unsolved murders over the years. Decedents found, some ID'd, some UID, mostly in remote areas of the county, such as off of I-75. Others, off of main roads.

What if the Colonial Parkway was considered an area, because of its remoteness, to be taken advantage of? I realize this brings up the issue of why more dead bodies were not found (there were a few murders in the area not considered part of the Colonial Parkway, such as Anita Louise Wynn) there. I do think location has a lot to do with it.

Its possible , but I believe in this case were talking about a area that spans something like 60 square miles, (if anyone has that info) and even further if the case in Shenandoah valley is indeed linked

Many serial offenders operate (primarily in their earlier crimes) in areas they are comfortable with. they can and do move around especially true of long haul truck drivers who are serial killers. But those offenders often commit their crimes in their trucks which become their "safe place"

We have a saying in LE, where theres prey theres predators, just look up the bad date sheets, from local prostitutes, or just talk to some, in any city you ll see the deadly encounters these girls go through, and it reads like a horror movie .

High crime areas, with the presence of prostitution is usually fertile ground for predators of all types, middle class areas with nicer homes tend to see more burglaries and break ins, Areas with a lot of stores, will see more robberies , areas with a lot of children will attract those with a more than passing interest in children, its old as time itself .

Whenever we see a series of crimes we often look for the earliest crime to get a general idea of where the offender may live , or work thats usually where they are most comfortable.

To analyze these cases, each one has to be looked at separately from the others, you cant link cases, without fully knowing what you are dealing with.

Serial killers dont just materialize out of nowhere , in this case, nobody woke up one day and just decided to go commit 2 brutal murders, theres a trail somewhere that leads to it.

Lets just look at the first case

You have 2 adult females murdered , bodies found in their car, as far as violence they suffered the most graphic violence of all that we are aware of . Theeres evidence they were bound, cause of death was listed as ligature strangulation, with incision to the victims neck secondary.

Cathy is found in the trunk, Rebecca in the passenger seat , the car is doused in diesel fuel , and pushed into the woods .

The location is secluded like the second, but unlike the third (if this is even a crime scene) and fourth

That takes time , even moving fast the offender(s) spent time there , it takes time to strangle a victim, that's risky especially if theres another adult present that can thwart it, or make an escape , especially a tough one, that is fighting for her life , but this offender (or offenders) wasn't too concerned about that.

The offender also apparently brought and removed ligatures, from the scene. That indicates at least some organization. Id like clarification on the nature of the supposed bindings, but i've seen them listed as "rope burns" . But think about it, he has to accost them, bind, strangle, cut the victims throats to make sure they're deceased, remove their bindings , then douse the car with diesel then when that doesn't ignite he now has to push the car into the woods then flee unnoticed or undetected.

This first case, holds a lot of queues , and the individual seems comfortable there, like hes familiar with the area.

The second case, seems like much less time was spent with the victims, third case, is unfounded but we know they left a party some 30 miles away I believe , the fourth case, happened in plain view of a major highway near a truckstop.

In terms of locale It depends on the offender, but isolated areas raise risk certainly.
 
My point about Clemente was exactly the same as you are saying Im not sure some of what was presented in this was to make more of the story, but again, Jim is a stand up guy so who knows .

I didn’t mean to sidetrack on that angle, but my first post was about the case itself and the series as whole.

About a decade ago, I was communicating, like I am with you, with a Jack the Ripper “expert,” which was how he self-identified, on a Ripper forum. I was checking on a History Chanel program on if the Ripper had come to America or NYC. I found the program ridiculous and went to the forum to see what others thought. He had been approached by the producers and was set to appear along with 2 other Ripper experts. A $1200 check was waiting for him. He had written a Ripper book and was about to finish another. The books were not making him wealthy, and he could really use the money. When he found out what they wanted him to say on camera, he backed out of the project. He could not put his name on the project. He had posted on that board weeks, if not months before that the program aired, that is was just an entertainment cash grab. It had no value in discovering anything new or valuable about the case. So, I am always leery or skeptical of true crime television.

I had finished Bill Thomas’ podcast on the series premiering over the weekend, and he talked about some of the limitations in bringing it to fruition. He worked as a consultant and had numerous meetings with Clemente getting it done. There were some small facts that got into the series, that he wished he had been able to edit out or fix before it aired. He apologized about getting a little nuts and bolts about the production, but I wish he had talked more about it. I find it fascinating how the sausage gets made. I would be curious if he could expand more on how much the female investigators were able to freely express their thoughts, if the dialogue is scripted, or they are kind of pushed towards certain conclusions the makers think fit the facts of the case? I assume Jim looked into the case fairly extensively just being a producer, but did the female investigator and prosecutor Coombs and O’Connell do much investigation or were they playing a role for the cameras?

Mind Over Murder • A podcast on Anchor
 
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This is by no means a jab, but so often we see conspiracy theories surrounding unsolved cases, and many of them prove to be nothing but that .

And theres always a personal experience tie in that lends to it

In this case, youre dealing with murders on Federal land under the jurisdiction of the FBI

Now NO department is perfect, even the FBI (some may say particularly the FBI) but in multiple agency cases, you run the risk of someone coming upon corruption, then the entire reputation of the department comes under the microscope, and it has happened before but it always seem to be part of someones theory as to why a case, remains unsolved .

Maybe if the enforced DUIs theyd catch a suspect, David Berkowitz was caught over a parking ticket, so its possible, but that didnt happen. All you can do now is focus on the known and try avoid wild speculation

I am sure I am coming across as a paranoid nut, but I don’t know how to explain it any better. We moved to the VA Peninsula in late 1970s. My dad had served in the military on multiple bases in the South. We lived on the West Coast and Midwest before we moved. The first year or so, I remember my dad reading the local paper and saying out loud “My God this place is so corrupt.” He said that or something similar multiple times over the next few years. I heard more than one longtime local state “you have to pay the police” after a suspicious occurrence when it was alleged someone had missed a kickback payment. The area has many transplants due to the military and other factors, and it was a constant refrain, outsiders were shocked with the level of corruption. When I went to college in the area, people from outside the area were shocked how corrupt the area was compared to what they were familiar when they dealt with the local police or read the constant news stories.

For example, say the nationwide rate of corruption was 3% with 97% of the cops basically honest and doing good work. If this area had a corruption level of 6%, would that not make it just a little bit more difficult, because some DUI, speeding infractions, and perhaps more serious crimes that would have been captured would not exist in the system? I was thinking about your example with Berkowitz and Bundy when I was pointing out the potentially missing police records of possible suspects. I may have this wrong, but I believe Bundy was let off from a speeding infraction once or twice during his crime sprees. As another example, say nationwide LE let off 10% of speeders and 5% of DUI infractions with a warning, if this area was doing the same thing and adding another few percent due to the good old boy network, that would create a much less complete record that LE later could comb through to find a clue or connection to any of these murders.

Another thing that I remember that the police used to do in this period from the late 1970s to the late 1980s is lay blame on a drug deal gone bad or a mysterious black guy. I have no idea if this was just a local quirk or nationwide the police did this tactic. Were there drug murders and black murderers yes? Yet, nothing at the rate the police suggested in seemingly every unsolved murder case. A black person killing a white person is fairly rare. Something like 90% of murders are white on white or black on black. Only roughly 10% are the reverse Black on White or White on Black. However, you could go through the Daily Press at the time and seemingly every unsolved case had a “this was a known drug area” or “a black man was seen shortly after the crime.” You never read in the unsolved death of a black person, “a mysterious white guy was seen leaving the area.”

As you stated 2 of the crimes occurred on the Federal property, while the rest of the crimes occurred on state property in Isle of Wight and New Kent Counties. I believe the Virginia State Police are handling the two cases not on FP. This is another issue with the cases. If they are connected, sharing of information between the two agencies has not been fluid according to their own sources. They have never been very transparent. They have leaked sensitive information, put out contradictory information, and been caught unaware of easily reported information.
 
Its possible , but I believe in this case were talking about a area that spans something like 60 square miles, (if anyone has that info) and even further if the case in Shenandoah valley is indeed linkedf.

Hampton, Newport News, Poquoson, Williamsburg, James City, and York Counties (#1 and #3 CP murders) are 710 square miles. That is what I consider the Virginia Peninsula, but the official area includes New Kent (#4 CP murders) and Charles City Counties, which is another 414 square miles for a total of 1124. Isle of Wight (#2 CP murders) is another 363 square miles.
 
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I am sure I am coming across as a paranoid nut, but I don’t know how to explain it any better. We moved to the VA Peninsula in late 1970s. My dad had served in the military on multiple bases in the South. We lived on the West Coast and Midwest before we moved. The first year or so, I remember my dad reading the local paper and saying out loud “My God this place is so corrupt.” He said that or something similar multiple times over the next few years. I heard more than one longtime local state “you have to pay the police” after a suspicious occurrence when it was alleged someone had missed a kickback payment. The area has many transplants due to the military and other factors, and it was a constant refrain, outsiders were shocked with the level of corruption. When I went to college in the area, people from outside the area were shocked how corrupt the area was compared to what they were familiar when they dealt with the local police or read the constant news stories.

For example, say the nationwide rate of corruption was 3% with 97% of the cops basically honest and doing good work. If this area had a corruption level of 6%, would that not make it just a little bit more difficult, because some DUI, speeding infractions, and perhaps more serious crimes that would have been captured would not exist in the system? I was thinking about your example with Berkowitz and Bundy when I was pointing out the potentially missing police records of possible suspects. I may have this wrong, but I believe Bundy was let off from a speeding infraction once or twice during his crime sprees. As another example, say nationwide LE let off 10% of speeders and 5% of DUI infractions with a warning, if this area was doing the same thing and adding another few percent due to the good old boy network, that would create a much less complete record that LE later could comb through to find a clue or connection to any of these murders.

Another thing that I remember that the police used to do in this period from the late 1970s to the late 1980s is lay blame on a drug deal gone bad or a mysterious black guy. I have no idea if this was just a local quirk or nationwide the police did this tactic. Were there drug murders and black murderers yes? Yet, nothing at the rate the police suggested in seemingly every unsolved murder case. A black person killing a white person is fairly rare. Something like 90% of murders are white on white or black on black. Only roughly 10% are the reverse Black on White or White on Black. However, you could go through the Daily Press at the time and seemingly every unsolved case had a “this was a known drug area” or “a black man was seen shortly after the crime.” You never read in the unsolved death of a black person, “a mysterious white guy was seen leaving the area.”

As you stated 2 of the crimes occurred on the Federal property, while the rest of the crimes occurred on state property in Isle of Wight and New Kent Counties. I believe the Virginia State Police are handling the two cases not on FP. This is another issue with the cases. If they are connected, sharing of information between the two agencies has not been fluid according to their own sources. They have never been very transparent. They have leaked sensitive information, put out contradictory information, and been caught unaware of easily reported information.


Not paranoid at all but slightly biased because of your own experiences.

In the 80's harder drugs were gaining a foothold in the US, drug deals were rampant (they still are actually) at that point Regan declared a "war on drugs" which actually had the opposite effect on it, because as law enforcement was cracking down (no pun) on drugs originating within the US, countries outside the US picked up right where they left off, in mass quantities, due to the ease of crossing our borders. When the US went after it on its own home turf actually killing one of the most powerful, violent, and ruthless drug lords to this day, another Cartel simply slid in and took over where he left off.

Murders due to such skyrocketed, both here and in other countries.

Therefore if police determined something as a drug deal gone wrong, it usually wasn't far from the truth back then.

Im not going to address Racism that in and of itself is another issue, that plagued society from the start, but has no bearing on this case.

And just so you understand LE has a job to do first and foremost, they are going to hold onto information they feel is important to weed out the almost certain influx of calls you are going to get from those who "know someone" to those who claim to be the killer themselves, and you have to weed that all out and stay on track . So in some cases, they arent going to be transparent with the public , as for sharing between agencies, that is yet another old issue many faced, back in the day, for all kinds of goofy reasons.
 
I didn’t mean to sidetrack on that angle, but my first post was about the case itself and the series as whole.

About a decade ago, I was communicating, like I am with you, with a Jack the Ripper “expert,” which was how he self-identified, on a Ripper forum. I was checking on a History Chanel program on if the Ripper had come to America or NYC. I found the program ridiculous and went to the forum to see what others thought. He had been approached by the producers and was set to appear along with 2 other Ripper experts. A $1200 check was waiting for him. He had written a Ripper book and was about to finish another. The books were not making him wealthy, and he could really use the money. When he found out what they wanted him to say on camera, he backed out of the project. He could not put his name on the project. He had posted on that board weeks, if not months before that the program aired, that is was just an entertainment cash grab. It had no value in discovering anything new or valuable about the case. So, I am always leery or skeptical of true crime television.

I had finished Bill Thomas’ podcast on the series premiering over the weekend, and he talked about some of the limitations in bringing it to fruition. He worked as a consultant and had numerous meetings with Clemente getting it done. There were some small facts that got into the series, that he wished he had been able to edit out or fix before it aired. He apologized about getting a little nuts and bolts about the production, but I wish he had talked more about it. I find it fascinating how the sausage gets made. I would be curious if he could expand more on how much the female investigators were able to freely express their thoughts, if the dialogue is scripted, or they are kind of pushed towards certain conclusions the makers think fit the facts of the case? I assume Jim looked into the case fairly extensively just being a producer, but did the female investigator and prosecutor Coombs and O’Connell do much investigation or were they playing a role for the cameras?

Mind Over Murder • A podcast on Anchor


Not sure to be honest , Ive only ever been consulted for articles, never for a program. Ive seen people do things that completely defy their personna on camera, i can tell you that much.
 
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I didn’t mean to sidetrack on that angle, but my first post was about the case itself and the series as whole.

About a decade ago, I was communicating, like I am with you, with a Jack the Ripper “expert,” which was how he self-identified, on a Ripper forum. I was checking on a History Chanel program on if the Ripper had come to America or NYC. I found the program ridiculous and went to the forum to see what others thought. He had been approached by the producers and was set to appear along with 2 other Ripper experts. A $1200 check was waiting for him. He had written a Ripper book and was about to finish another. The books were not making him wealthy, and he could really use the money. When he found out what they wanted him to say on camera, he backed out of the project. He could not put his name on the project. He had posted on that board weeks, if not months before that the program aired, that is was just an entertainment cash grab. It had no value in discovering anything new or valuable about the case. So, I am always leery or skeptical of true crime television.

I had finished Bill Thomas’ podcast on the series premiering over the weekend, and he talked about some of the limitations in bringing it to fruition. He worked as a consultant and had numerous meetings with Clemente getting it done. There were some small facts that got into the series, that he wished he had been able to edit out or fix before it aired. He apologized about getting a little nuts and bolts about the production, but I wish he had talked more about it. I find it fascinating how the sausage gets made. I would be curious if he could expand more on how much the female investigators were able to freely express their thoughts, if the dialogue is scripted, or they are kind of pushed towards certain conclusions the makers think fit the facts of the case? I assume Jim looked into the case fairly extensively just being a producer, but did the female investigator and prosecutor Coombs and O’Connell do much investigation or were they playing a role for the cameras?

Mind Over Murder • A podcast on Anchor


Thanks for that info about the inside story of making the Colonial Parkway murders. I'll make sure to listen to Bill's podcast epi on it. He's one of quite a few people who post here that I trust completely. He's invested so much into getting answers over the years and goes out of his way to listen to everyone's ideas and input.

Re your earlier response about the Margaret - Hall murders, I mistakenly thought you were referring to another couple in the CPW murders. I wasn't aware in the Lauer-Phelps murders that they were carrying a large amount of cash. I knew that was alleged with Donna Hall and that there is a possible drug connection in that case. I do see some similarities. The Hall-Margaret murders seemed personal. The murder sites were very remote, someplace the killer had to have visited before. If you haven't listened to Bill Thomas's podcast about those murders, you should. He brought up some interesting information that possibly explains the Demerol. In both cases, these were couples who were well loved by family and friends, in spite of allegations of drug use. I found the roach clip left hanging on the window of the Lauer-Phelps car to be disturbing. There does seem to be something about staging of cars in all the CPW murders.

ETA: Adding that @Kell1 is also someone I trust. He's been here at WS for quite a few years and his expert opinions are very helpful, well researched and consistent.
 
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Beginning at the "Beginning"

Thomas/Dowski murders,

Lets address the location first

Although its a secluded "lovers lane" kind of place, I think its a lot to ask of the theory to expect an offender to attack not 1 but 2 Physically fit , capable, adult women , control not one, but both, 1 an Annapolis grad, tie them both up , then strangle them, put one in the trunk, then untie them, slit their throats, douse the car, try to light it on fire, probably more than once, then push the car into the woods, hoping it would go into the water and sink, then escape unnoticed.

That's an awful lot of time out in the open, now on its face, this would indicate a individual extremely comfortable in that area but theres one thing that his comfort there cant address, ... the possibility another vehicle, or someone might happen upon the same spot. That elevates the risk, much higher for an offender spending that much time in that location doing what was done to those 2 victims.

How did the killer(s) come upon the victim? were they staking out the area?, were they patrolling the area?, was he (they) there when the couple arrived?, did the offender(s) happen upon this location by chance?, or did they follow them there ? All of those are a roll of the dice.

From the outside all you know is that there are 2 females in a vehicle, that's it, who they are, what they do could they be armed ?, the offender knows none of these.

Much of the evidence seems to indicate at least a rudimentary level of planning

Lets look at the suggested "Cop" theory, both victims had evidence of being bound, if thats the case, why not cuff the victims, its much faster, almost certainly surer, you can cuff an individual in seconds even without practice, so why rope? was it to fulfill a fantasy? was it so no evidence transfer was found on the cuffs? , that can easily be wiped away, why did this offender bring bindings?,

Also how was he able to tie one victim up while another supposedly sat there and waited and watched? Threat control? at gunpoint ? If he was armed with a gun, why not just shoot the victims? if this is the same individual involved with the second case, then it didnt hinder him then, was this an evolution in his crimes?

As for the bindings, why remove them if you are only going to burn the car , why remove them at all if the victims are dead?

Is it possible this individual had practiced tying struggling victims so quickly that he could pull it off in seconds? It can be done ive seen guys do it with a pre tied restraints in emergency situations.

But again you re talking about time out in the open.

Whats the chance someone is riding around with a can of diesel fuel? that's a very odd choice anyone who knows anything about diesel knows that it needs compression to make it burn as a fuel, was this just an oversight ? was someone riding around with a murder kit with rope a knife and diesel to burn the evidence? Or was this someone that may have to possibly fuel equipment or perhaps respond to broken down vehicles in the area and have to have it with them?

Why burn the car at all? This individual had enough upper body strength to push the car into the woods, he was able to subdue 2 adult women, why not just drag the bodies to the water a few feet away, and throw them into the water ?

For some reason the car had to go ... but why (more later)

Post mortem cutting of the victims throats, why ? when we see overkill it usually means 1 of 3 things , Anger, perversion, or personal involvement. But overkill is usually extreme, this wasn't really the case in these 2 murders, the victims were strangled, and then the offender cut their throats apparently to ensure they were deceased.

There was no evidence of sexual assault to either victim, there was not other post mortem cutting or mutilation, other than the wounds to the victims neck, no de personization such as disfiguring their faces, nothing was taken from the victims or the scene, no undoing indicative of interpersonal knowledge of the victims, Cathy suffered a much deeper wound to her neck than Rebecca, that can sometimes be attributed simply to the position the victim was in when applied.

The victims for the most part lived a low risk lifestyle, nothing other than possibly being lesbian in a time of less acceptance, would elevate their risk of becoming a victim of violence.

Both were smart, driven, both were athletic, Cathy was known as a no BS tough woman, that could certainly handle herself.

Why did these women become victims at that spot at that time , why did that offender do what he did to those 2 women?

The offender(s)

NOBODY wakes up one morning and decides ... Im going to go commit a double murder tonight, theres always something leading up to it , whether its a police officer or not .

Theres always a path, the path begins in childhood, goes through adolescence, into adulthood, there are red flags, run ins with the law , odd behaviors, often pre cursory cases, usually before something like this happens. In many cases, theres a triggering event , like a spark that ignites an explosion in the offender, we call those "Stressors" .

Theres also usually someone who either knows, or strongly suspects someone, either by coincidence , or that offender may have even confided in said individual.

Precipitating Stressors often involve a signifigant others, job, rejection, financial , or legal issues.

When you have a tight wound individual angry at something or someone , with little regard for others it doesnt take much for that individual to go "off the rails" and do something horrible , in some cases, it sparks repeated events , in some just one, but that doesnt make the latter individual any less dangerous, it just means whenever anything pi$$es him off, people are in mortal danger.

This individual would most certainly have run ins with the law, if he was (is) indeed a cop, he would almost certainly have been brought up on disciplinary issues. There would be issues with whatever his sexual preference was (men or women).

Back to the crime scene:

Again, i think its a lot for all of what happened to occur at that crime scene, too many unknowns , too much risk, too many things that could happen, the offender may have chose strangulation because knowing he was going to burn the bodies nothing would be indicative on skeletal remains (knowledge of forensics?) same with cutting but not stabbing, or beating the victims(Again investigatory knowledge?) why remove the restraints? (again, was he worried it could be traced back to him?) Possible

The placement of the bodies brings up another question, in a 2 door coupe hatchback, why was one victim in the "boot" area or trunk area, and the other still seated but reclined ? why not put both of them in the trunk its obvious that even if the car was burned the driver was going to be discovered in the rear, i mean you planned all this out but didnt think a body in the trunk with no one at the wheel wouldn't look a little suspicious? Why was Dowsky placed in a reclined position?

This seems to indicate to me 2 things thing ..staging then Panic

One scenario could be that after he killed Cathy in the rear of the vehicle so Rebecca wouldn't see her, then killed Dowski went back untied them both and administered the cut to make sure ... then doused the car in fuel , tried a few times to light it , and when that didn't happen he panicked and tried to push the car into the water, however that is still a lot of time in a location where you have no idea if another car is going to pull in or police may swing by or someone may walk up .

Another is what ill describe below

Now this is all my opinion, (so im not going to argue it) This is based solely on what is known via media , so I could be wrong

Based on my experience the behavior at the scene seems more indicative more of a dump site, and attempt at staging. it looks to me like someone quickly trying to get rid of evidence.

The real overkill in this case, seems to pertain to the attempting to get rid of evidence

The positions of the victims, Cathy in the trunk, Becky slumped back seems to indicate to me that someone may have killed the girls elsewhere, both bodies my not have fit in the rear , and its difficult to stuff someone into the back seat of a small coupe , then drove the car there to get rid of it.

This would explain why he wanted to burn the car or sink the car, because there could be evidence in there linking him (or them) to the crime.

They didnt know that they couldn't light diesel, and in a panic, tried to push the car into the water , the victims were strangled and bound with ligatures not found. Id expect an offender that concerned about evidence to wear gloves or wipe down the car

Why was the wallet out ? im not sure, perhaps the individual was looking for money or looking for a memento , but the police angle (sadly) cant be ruled out either.

This would be much faster for the individual, less time out in the open, if they came upon another vehicle all they had to do was keep driving to another spot , because the car was a coupe it was much easier to put one body in the trunk , since she was strangled to death the individual only had to recline Dowski in the passenger seat to make it look like she was sleeping, when he got to the spot he made sure they were dead by using the knife tried to ignite the car then panicked and pushed it into where it was found then he took off either on foot or someone was there to pick him up .

That's my thought on the first murders , could I be wrong?

Absolutely, were going on media releases, we don't have access to true case files. Those with no investigate experience usually only have media reports and true crime writing , some may have education in criminal justice etc.. but without the actual case, materials EVERYTHING is basically speculation

If anyone would like to discuss this particular case, (not argue) feel free to PM me
 
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Lets look at the suggested "Cop" theory, both victims had evidence of being bound, if thats the case, why not cuff the victims, its much faster, almost certainly surer, you can cuff an individual in seconds even without practice, so why rope? was it to fulfill a fantasy? was it so no evidence transfer was found on the cuffs? , that can easily be wiped away, why did this offender bring bindings?,

Also how was he able to tie one victim up while another supposedly sat there and waited and watched? Threat control? at gunpoint ? If he was armed with a gun, why not just shoot the victims? if this is the same individual involved with the second case, then it didnt hinder him then, was this an evolution in his crimes?

As for the bindings, why remove them if you are only going to burn the car , why remove them at all if the victims are dead?

Is it possible this individual had practiced tying struggling victims so quickly that he could pull it off in seconds? It can be done ive seen guys do it with a pre tied restraints in emergency situations.
Forces one victim to bind the other
 

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