GUILTY VA - Tina Smith, 41, slain, 12yo daughter abducted, Salem, 2 Dec 2010 - #6

[salvarenga]

Does anyone have Brittany's birthdate?

From here: http://www.helpfindmychild.net/brittany-smith

March 13, 1998

 

[Dema]

IMHO, even a like we're dealing with here, would do at least some shakin' in his shoes if confronted by just the appearance of a couple of uniformed cops showing up on the doorstep to check out a suspicious situation reported by extended family members and/or a distraught and appropriately concerned mom.

Knowing that women are at the highest risk of physical harm/death from their abusers during the time they are finally attempting to separate themselves from their abusers, I fervently wish TS would have involved the police in removing JE from her and BS's home.

Reading the FB/MS pages available, plus other info we've become privy to, it is pretty clear that a crisis was not only brewing -- it had already blown a few gaskets. JE had no legal right to be in TS's home if she determined that she wanted him O-U-T.

*IF* she requested/demanded that he leave her home, the minute he gave her any trouble or threats about it, I wish she would have called 911. It was perfectly in her rights to do so. I just don't think she knew that, and/or, even if she did, so many of us women have been brought up believing we should not "make a fuss" or embarrass anyone or "make a bad situation worse" or supposedly "damage a man's ego," etc.

BIG RED BULL !!

In the WAY, WAY, Long Ago Past, in a Very Bad & Abusive Marriage, I had several situations where calling 911 was warranted. In a couple of those situations, just the fact that it was clear from the look in my eyes and the phone in my hand, the just LEFT!

And, from both my Long Ago Past, and my 25 years as a therapist advocating for other women, I've been impressed by any actual contact with the police in these types of circumstances. LE has always said that they would rather be called when there is something they can actually do to help versus later arriving at a scene where it is too late to do anything to help.

I am absolutely NOT blaming Tina here! I admire her for the stand it appears she took in attempting to get JE out of her home and away from her daughter! I am just so sad that it also appears that her brave stand all by herself resulted in her making the ultimate sacrifice of her life.

I am advocating that we stress to other women that they do not have to stand alone against someone who, for many reasons, physically, psychologically, and PSYCHOPATHICALLY, can overpower them in such a sick variety of ways.

It may not be okay to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater if there is not a fire, however, it is WAY OKAY to yell "FIRE!" (literally and figuratively) on the street or on the phone if there is ANY kind of FIRE that is endangering you or the ones you love when you have a in your face threatening you!

In a women's self-defense course I took, we were taught that yelling "FIRE!" can be much more likely to get you immediate help than yelling "HELP!" or "RAPE!" in public situations where you realize you need rapid intervention.

Please encourage women at risk to alert law enforcement IF THEY CAN in *advance* of any situation where the presence of law enforcement might be able to protect them and their children from the violence of an in-home !

I admire Tina for attempting to deal with the situation she found herself and her daughter in. I just wish she would not have had to confront it all by herself.

IMO, she didn't stand a chance.

I doubt BS is the first young girl JE has groomed. He's also had numerous run-ins with the police in the past. Most criminals I've dealt with who have that much experience don't get to shaken up by police asking them questions. They're pretty good at brazening it out and giving the "correct answers."

In all seriousness, there wasn't much the police could do if the only things the family mentioned were him rubbing her arm and hair. If they'd heard him threaten her or TS, make inappropriate suggestions or comments...or if they'd seen him (God forbid) molest BS, then they'd have had something they could call the police about immediately. With what they saw, calling CPS is really all they could do...and I guarantee that JE knew just how far he could push it.

TS may not have realized how dangerious he was. She may not have had a chance to call 911 if things escalated too quickly. If she'd had any idea JE could become violent, she should have had an officer there when she told him to leave. The officer could have also helped her with a restraining order.

 

[itsreenw]

Interesting, I had not seen those before. I thought he moved in in October, and the family that was on NG said thanksgiving was the first meeting, I wonder if he was there at that point.

After reading some of BS's posts, I believe JE began violating BS in or before October. On 10/15 BS says something like "I bet the neighbors know my name" NOT AN EXACT QUOTE, MODS!! But there is a song called 'Neighbors know my name" by Trey Songz about two people being loud while having s*x. Google the lyrics. I cant think of another logical reference to put that in her status.

 

[itsreenw]

I don't think BS regretted putting Easley on her FB and MS pages because TS saw it, I think whoever $!NGL3 $WAGG3R is saw it and stopped talking to her.

On 10/02 she posted that she didn't know why she put Easley and HCB on everything and from the 2nd to the 4th she is pleading with $!NGL3 $WAGG3R to call her. I think that may have been her boyfriend until she changed her last name.

 

[belimom]

Just a reminder, do not cut/paste/quote from FB or MS. You may link if it is NOT a minor... Just don't want the thread to get in trouble - seems to be alot of quoting from FB/MS.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5898054&postcount=1

About Social Networks...
Regarding facebook,twitter, and myspace you can link but do not cut and paste.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Hiya, Strawberry Fields:blowkiss:

Yes, I knew there was the second video with the store employee talking with the newscaster. Thanks for clarifying here as well, since I obviously didn't!

I do agree that the whole report was quite a touch bizarre. I've noticed, along with so many others here, that just in the last 24 hours or so the language in quite a few news reports has changed in seeming to suggest complicity regarding BS's role in this whole case. I'm not saying I agree with this -- quite the opposite!

Even though I usually have difficult with watching/listening to NG -- I do have to say that on her show tonight she does a really good job of pointing out the true situation BS and other victims of trauma are in when in the presence of their perpetrators in public, etc. So, hurray for NG today!!

I'm hoping the sensationalist (IMO) press reports (like the two videos we're discussing) will cease if we help to let the news programs know how disturbing we find the blaming the victim language now being increasingly used to describe BS.

Although I've been a member of WS since June (joined because of the Kyron Horman case) I had not posted on this case until tonight -- although I've been massively lurking and hitting the "Thanks" button here for the last week. I feel like I've gotten to "know" so many more WS'ers and am so glad to be a part of the group.:balloons:

Thanks :dance:

Thanks Avalon. We are so happy you decided to join this thread. It feels like we are a big family. These cases can be really heartwrenching, but it is so obvious so many people with huge hearts have joined together in ways that would never have been possible in past years, to support one another, victims, their families and friends and try, in any way we can, to help bring justice. Your post is very heartwarming and thanks for taking time to post. We need you. I felt strongly after watching NG that she did everything in her power to make people realize that a 12-year-old girl is a victim. She set that one caller straight pronto and, although there are times I have wanted to jump through the TV and smack her, NG has a gigantic heart and the clout to help victims and their families. Wish we could get someone with her clout to help push for a bill to make the Ambert Alert national automatically and then, if we could get some kind of national alert for ANY missing person, maybe we could make the world just a little friendlier. Thanks again. I just wanted to make sure you had the opportunity to listen to the "other" video as I had not found it immediately myself and was intrigued by some of the comments and though "well what am I missing" and then I went on and "scrolled down".

 

[nervous_nellie]

the only time that ts mentions je "working" was one time in august...so i dont get the idea that he worked too much if at all. from reading the ms stream portion of ts and bs matching up the dates its obvious that there was some drama going on and not always between ts and bs because bs will say positive comments about ts. im most curious about the oct.2nd posting on ts stream that is directed at someone who kicked in her front door and broke the alarm... on bs oct.2 entries she talks about someone walking out of her life and being upset about it... also just from the stream comments it looks like the first mention of je from bs is in the end of july... i think ts mentions earlier but i forgot exactly when.
also imo worth noting is the almost obsessive/compulsive posting to the deceased brother... im not saying that it is a bad thing - i just think that ts and bs both may have needed more in-depth counseling to deal with this death. myspace posting may be beneficial for journaling/blogging but from the posts it doesnt appear that either were making any progress in their grief over this death...jmho...

 

[Pollywog]

BS mentions watching TV with Jeff and hanging out by the pool with Jeff as far back as June 28. Could be another Jeff but IMO it is THIS Jeff.

I think I may have called her dad about the way JE was acting, especially if I thought the mom was not doing anything to protect her. My concern would have been for BS and only for BS.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

IMHO, even a like we're dealing with here, would do at least some shakin' in his shoes if confronted by just the appearance of a couple of uniformed cops showing up on the doorstep to check out a suspicious situation reported by extended family members and/or a distraught and appropriately concerned mom.

Knowing that women are at the highest risk of physical harm/death from their abusers during the time they are finally attempting to separate themselves from their abusers, I fervently wish TS would have involved the police in removing JE from her and BS's home.

Reading the FB/MS pages available, plus other info we've become privy to, it is pretty clear that a crisis was not only brewing -- it had already blown a few gaskets. JE had no legal right to be in TS's home if she determined that she wanted him O-U-T.

*IF* she requested/demanded that he leave her home, the minute he gave her any trouble or threats about it, I wish she would have called 911. It was perfectly in her rights to do so. I just don't think she knew that, and/or, even if she did, so many of us women have been brought up believing we should not "make a fuss" or embarrass anyone or "make a bad situation worse" or supposedly "damage a man's ego," etc.

BIG RED BULL !!

In the WAY, WAY, Long Ago Past, in a Very Bad & Abusive Marriage, I had several situations where calling 911 was warranted. In a couple of those situations, just the fact that it was clear from the look in my eyes and the phone in my hand, the just LEFT!

And, from both my Long Ago Past, and my 25 years as a therapist advocating for other women, I've been impressed by any actual contact with the police in these types of circumstances. LE has always said that they would rather be called when there is something they can actually do to help versus later arriving at a scene where it is too late to do anything to help.

I am absolutely NOT blaming Tina here! I admire her for the stand it appears she took in attempting to get JE out of her home and away from her daughter! I am just so sad that it also appears that her brave stand all by herself resulted in her making the ultimate sacrifice of her life.

I am advocating that we stress to other women that they do not have to stand alone against someone who, for many reasons, physically, psychologically, and PSYCHOPATHICALLY, can overpower them in such a sick variety of ways.

It may not be okay to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater if there is not a fire, however, it is WAY OKAY to yell "FIRE!" (literally and figuratively) on the street or on the phone if there is ANY kind of FIRE that is endangering you or the ones you love when you have a in your face threatening you!

In a women's self-defense course I took, we were taught that yelling "FIRE!" can be much more likely to get you immediate help than yelling "HELP!" or "RAPE!" in public situations where you realize you need rapid intervention.

Please encourage women at risk to alert law enforcement IF THEY CAN in *advance* of any situation where the presence of law enforcement might be able to protect them and their children from the violence of an in-home !

I admire Tina for attempting to deal with the situation she found herself and her daughter in. I just wish she would not have had to confront it all by herself.

IMO, she didn't stand a chance.

[My mother gave me the "yell fire, not help or rape" advice.

My son and I took a safety course. They told us that if you were ever in a dangerous, hopeless situation, act like the most "psycho" person you've ever seen. This actually happened to my son. The man had tried to shoot once and the gun jammed, at which point my son went into "psycho mode." The man and his accomplice (who had been telling the guy to shoot my son!) jumped into their car and took off. The next day they shot a man when he'd pulled his own gun on them in self-defense.]

Yes, many women hesitate to call the law on someone. It's embarrassing. It's admitting you can't handle the situation. It's letting the neighbors see that the cops are at your house. AND it's also a life saver!!

TS had a couple of things in her favor when calling the cops: "Yes, I've discovered that my boyfriend is molesting my 12-year-old daughter. I've told him to leave MY HOUSE, but he's refused. Oh, and my daughter's dad is a law enforcement officer." Boom. Gone. BUT she may well have been on the way to a phone when she was attacked. We don't know at this point.

 

[Gizmorose]

I don't think BS regretted putting Easley on her FB and MS pages because TS saw it, I think whoever $!NGL3 $WAGG3R is saw it and stopped talking to her.

On 10/02 she posted that she didn't know why she put Easley and HCB on everything and from the 2nd to the 4th she is pleading with $!NGL3 $WAGG3R to call her. I think that may have been her boyfriend until she changed her last name.

The $!NGL3 $WAGG3R was a reference to herself...SHE is now single and available. If I recall she put HTU after that..."hit me up"...translated "hey I'm single again and available, call me."

 

[Strawberry Fields]

They have people who are trained to work with sexual assault victims and they will help the victim decide how to proceed, explain why it is important, make them feel safe and secure. According the SANE program there has to be reason to believe the assault happened within the last seventy hours.

But the last thing they are going to do is forcibly exam a rape victim. That would be irresponsible and further traumatize them. The program stats show that victims that are handled by trained medical workers are more likely to comply and more likely to cooperate with prosecution.

If she absolutely did not want to be examined most STDs can be dxed in other ways (blood for many of them), or the exam can be approached again at a later time. But you cannot put forensic collection ahead of the psychological well being of the victim.

As I said in my previous post these charges are really optional all things considered.

I am confident they have handled her with the utmost care for her well being and with an eye towards his prosecution. She has to be so happ to be home tonight.

This just makes it all the more sad because a mother should be her soft spot to fall in this situation, but this poor little girl now has not got her mommy.

 

[duckingoff]

The $!NGL3 $WAGG3R was a reference to herself...SHE is now single and available. If I recall she put HTU after that..."hit me up"...translated "hey I'm single again and available, call me."

OK people if your 12 yr old is saying things like "hey i'm single hit me up"; shut down their MS and FB accounts. Password protect the computer and don't pay for an internet plan on their cell phones. :furious:

Why on earth a 12 yr old had access to all that with her mom as her friend on all of it, is beyond me. Red flags all over the place. Yeah I know mom was still grieving, lonely, etc etc. But there are other adults she has on her friend list. Shame on them! OK off my soap box.

 

[Mendara]

After reading some of BS's posts, I believe JE began violating BS in or before October. On 10/15 BS says something like "I bet the neighbors know my name" NOT AN EXACT QUOTE, MODS!! But there is a song called 'Neighbors know my name" by Trey Songz about two people being loud while having s*x. Google the lyrics. I cant think of another logical reference to put that in her status.

oh heavens :sick:

 

[Gizmorose]

the only time that ts mentions je "working" was one time in august...so i dont get the idea that he worked too much if at all. from reading the ms stream portion of ts and bs matching up the dates its obvious that there was some drama going on and not always between ts and bs because bs will say positive comments about ts. im most curious about the oct.2nd posting on ts stream that is directed at someone who kicked in her front door and broke the alarm... on bs oct.2 entries she talks about someone walking out of her life and being upset about it... also just from the stream comments it looks like the first mention of je from bs is in the end of july... i think ts mentions earlier but i forgot exactly when.
also imo worth noting is the almost obsessive/compulsive posting to the deceased brother... im not saying that it is a bad thing - i just think that ts and bs both may have needed more in-depth counseling to deal with this death. myspace posting may be beneficial for journaling/blogging but from the posts it doesnt appear that either were making any progress in their grief over this death...jmho...

I mentioned the Oct. 2, 3, etc status updates in another post but can't find it. All of that was just too bizarre...1st - the public forum where it played out and the seeming estrangement between TS and BS. 2nd - It was as if BS and TS were beside themselves but JE was unfazed by the drama. 3rd - TS seemed to be the third wheel and a bit out of the loop 4th - TS knew this person would "bounce" and cursed him with an Irish Curse for hurting her family, particularly BS. BS thought that was mean. 5th - Suddenly BS is single, announcing same with invites to call her and HCB was left off the posts for a few days. 6th - SOMEONE KICKED IN THE DOOR AND BROKE THE ALARM! Exactly when were we planning to call the law and kick this person to the curb........all this is, of course, open for interpretation... interpretations and opinions are all there will be given the circumstances.

 

[illeKllaH]

OK people if your 12 yr old is saying things like "hey i'm single hit me up"; shut down their MS and FB accounts. Password protect the computer and don't pay for an internet plan on their cell phones. :furious:

Why on earth a 12 yr old had access to all that with her mom as her friend on all of it, is beyond me. Red flags all over the place. Yeah I know mom was still grieving, lonely, etc etc. But there are other adults she has on her friend list. Shame on them! OK off my soap box.

Despite the sad situation at hand, I have to agree with you. But I also think that there were other variables that MOST do not have to deal with and, IMO, played a large part in all of this unfolding...mainly the grief TS was still experiencing because of the death of her son.

 

[Jilliekay68]

I can't help but wonder, and I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, why he was even at Thanksgiving dinner with them if TS was getting ready to boot him out? Could it be that he was so in control of the situation that he forced his way along? Part of his psychological game with TS? So bizarre, and acting that way in front of virtual strangers (to him) shows, IMO, a seriously evil side. There is no way he didn't realize what he was doing (in terms of inappropriate behavior) at Thanksgiving. I really feel he was controlling and playing games with TS to push her to the edge. She was so fragile. It's all so very disturbing. My heart breaks for that family, and imagining what TS was going through up until the time of the murder.

 

[Gizmorose]

OK people if your 12 yr old is saying things like "hey i'm single hit me up"; shut down their MS and FB accounts. Password protect the computer and don't pay for an internet plan on their cell phones. :furious:

Why on earth a 12 yr old had access to all that with her mom as her friend on all of it, is beyond me. Red flags all over the place. Yeah I know mom was still grieving, lonely, etc etc. But there are other adults she has on her friend list. Shame on them! OK off my soap box.

First off I had a typo in my post...HMU not htu. 2nd - EXACTLY!!! This was a 12 YEAR OLD GIRL!:banghead: And mom was reading and RESPONDING as someone other than a parent would or should. She seemed as clueless as BS and possibly even less proactive and it goes without saying she had grabbed a major corner of Denial. When reading these posts I was amazed that the fervor seemed to die down and the posts actually went back to "normal" (used loosely). I do not shame the friends. Mom had been grieving for over a year...when was she going to snap out of it?? I think she was afraid of losing both BS and JE (not sure which order)...enough to paralyse her and allow herself (and somehow justify that allowance) to ignore what was figuratively jumping up and hitting her over the head. Apparently it has now turned literal.

I too am off the soapbox...

 

[impatientredhead]

I can't help but wonder, and I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, why he was even at Thanksgiving dinner with them if TS was getting ready to boot him out? Could it be that he was so in control of the situation that he forced his way along? Part of his psychological game with TS? So bizarre, and acting that way in front of virtual strangers (to him) shows, IMO, a seriously evil side. There is no way he didn't realize what he was doing (in terms of inappropriate behavior) at Thanksgiving. I really feel he was controlling and playing games with TS to push her to the edge. She was so fragile. It's all so very disturbing. My heart breaks for that family, and imagining what TS was going through up until the time of the murder.

I have not seen anything that indicates she was kicking him out before the dinner. Him leaving came about after her family confronted her about WTF is going on over there?!?!?!?!

The bickering posts I have seen are between Tina and Brittany for the most part. It was Brittany that kicked the door open and broke the clock according the postings.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Despite the sad situation at hand, I have to agree with you. But I also think that there were other variables that MOST do not have to deal with and, IMO, played a large part in all of this unfolding...mainly the grief TS was still experiencing because of the death of her son.

And I agree that her grief was a blinding force in her life. But you know what? All the more reason for the other adults in their lives to step in and help shoulder the load until TS was able to do it herself again.

 

[Gizmorose]

I can't help but wonder, and I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, why he was even at Thanksgiving dinner with them if TS was getting ready to boot him out? Could it be that he was so in control of the situation that he forced his way along? Part of his psychological game with TS? So bizarre, and acting that way in front of virtual strangers (to him) shows, IMO, a seriously evil side. There is no way he didn't realize what he was doing (in terms of inappropriate behavior) at Thanksgiving. I really feel he was controlling and playing games with TS to push her to the edge. She was so fragile. It's all so very disturbing. My heart breaks for that family, and imagining what TS was going through up until the time of the murder.

Just my opinion....Sad to say but I think TS and BS were determined to keep this frog in their lives...warts and all....and damn the consequences.