Vatican calling for Boycott of Da Vinci Code

[Glow]

Jesus was making it clear that He was fullfilling the law, NOT replacing it, so we still have to follow it.

Hi DK,

I was basing my post to Narla on the words of Paul.

"The law has come to an end with Christ."

Romans 10;4




all is still well Narla

 

[Dark Knight]

Hi DK,

I was basing my post to Narla on the words of Paul.

"The law has come to an end with Christ."

Romans 10;4




all is still well Narla

Hi Glow,

I think he means the law of Moses, not the 10 Commandments of God.

 

[Glow]

DK, which part of the 10 commandments is NOT part of the law of Moses?

 

[Dark Knight]

DK, which part of the 10 commandments is NOT part of the law of Moses?

The laws of Moses are the Jewish laws such as ritual cleanliness, animal sacrifices to the Lord (at the time) and so on. Paul was making the point in Romans that we are saved by faith in Jesus and are no longer bound by those laws.

Other laws outside of the 10 commandments that Jesus changed include divorce being acceptable with simply a letter, etc.

 

[Glow]

Ok, but since the 10 commandments are the foundation of all of the Laws of Moses, how was it left out?

 

[Dark Knight]

Ok, but since the 10 commandments are the foundation of all of the Laws of Moses, how was it left out?

Actually, as was posted earlier, Jews have over 600 Commandments. So "the law" for them goes well beyond the Decalogue (10 Commandments.)

 

[BhamMama]

DK asked if I could share our view of how Mosiac law relates to the 10 Commandments.

First I must tell you that our Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament. All of the 613 Commandments, except the ones given to Moses, are found there. The Laws of Moses are the first 10, of course, and all the others are from those 10.

I can only tell you what I know from my perspective. Our laws are seen as a gift, not a curse or a thing to take away pleasure. If you love G-d, you are pleased to follow them. Most of the Commandments are ceremonial, cleanliness (it's where we get kosher from) and the like, but the main difference is, they are not only a set of religious enforcable laws, but civil as well. There is oral law, civil law and written law. Judaism draws no distinction in its laws between religious and non-religious life.

As far as Jesus abolishing the law, he did not. In his sermon on the mount he says specifically that he did not come to abolish them. Remember, he was speaking to Jews. At that time he was gathering followers and saying he was the manifestation of those Jewish laws. He was trying to show them that their traditional teachings were evading these laws. They had spent so much time gathering teachings that they were forgetful of just what they were suppose to be teaching about. To the point that it may have been thought of as idoltry, a sin, breaking a commandment by trying to follow a commandment.

Paul said that Mosiac law was a middle wall of partition that seperated the Jews from the Gentiles. Before this everyone was under the Patriarchal system, then the Hebrew were seperated as a holy people and Gentiles continued under the Patriarchal system until they were given the gospel.

Back to the Jews evading laws. It was really that they were blinded by their teachings that they could not see how G-d could have any plans for any other nation but their own. They were 'chosen' right? But in truth you can't really seperate one from the other until the Revelation of the Gentiles, which was what Peter received.

We are taught that the laws were just magnified, not written over, not taken away then re established. It would have been treason most high if Paul had tried to say he had re written any laws. In essence these men were still Jewish and thought that way. They thought that Jesus manifested everything that was the essence of the Jewish laws, as a fulfilment of Mosiac Law.

And just to make this clear as mud, how are they related? They are Jewish laws first and foremost, but with a conclusion per say. They were never abolished, they were expanded upon so that Jesus could finish them and pay for sins.

I will give a link to show what the 613 are that we follow and you can then see how they were all from 5 books of the Old Testament and were all derived from the first 10 Commandments. http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

I'm not sure I described this fully, it's more complicated than just a mere reply window can hold lol.

 

[ellen13]

I agree.

My good friend is Catholic and her husband is Orthodox Jew. I tease her that every day at her house is either a high holy day or a festival.

As for me, not a fan of organized religion. It seems to have gotten off track somewhere...

can you imagine at my house last christmas when it fell on the same night as the first night of hanukkah, we were celebrating the birth of christ the first half of the day, and then the second half, we were spinning the dreidel and lighting the menorah. hell, i feel like we can still celebrate his birth, but that he isn't the son of god or divine. how's that for justification. you can imagine the chaos in my house. i guess it's religion according to ellen.

 

[Dark Knight]

DK asked if I could share our view of how Mosiac law relates to the 10 Commandments.

First I must tell you that our Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament. All of the 613 Commandments, except the ones given to Moses, are found there. The Laws of Moses are the first 10, of course, and all the others are from those 10.

I can only tell you what I know from my perspective. Our laws are seen as a gift, not a curse or a thing to take away pleasure. If you love G-d, you are pleased to follow them. Most of the Commandments are ceremonial, cleanliness (it's where we get kosher from) and the like, but the main difference is, they are not only a set of religious enforcable laws, but civil as well. There is oral law, civil law and written law. Judaism draws no distinction in its laws between religious and non-religious life.

As far as Jesus abolishing the law, he did not. In his sermon on the mount he says specifically that he did not come to abolish them. Remember, he was speaking to Jews. At that time he was gathering followers and saying he was the manifestation of those Jewish laws. He was trying to show them that their traditional teachings were evading these laws. They had spent so much time gathering teachings that they were forgetful of just what they were suppose to be teaching about. To the point that it may have been thought of as idoltry, a sin, breaking a commandment by trying to follow a commandment.

Paul said that Mosiac law was a middle wall of partition that seperated the Jews from the Gentiles. Before this everyone was under the Patriarchal system, then the Hebrew were seperated as a holy people and Gentiles continued under the Patriarchal system until they were given the gospel.

Back to the Jews evading laws. It was really that they were blinded by their teachings that they could not see how G-d could have any plans for any other nation but their own. They were 'chosen' right? But in truth you can't really seperate one from the other until the Revelation of the Gentiles, which was what Peter received.

We are taught that the laws were just magnified, not written over, not taken away then re established. It would have been treason most high if Paul had tried to say he had re written any laws. In essence these men were still Jewish and thought that way. They thought that Jesus manifested everything that was the essence of the Jewish laws, as a fulfilment of Mosiac Law.

And just to make this clear as mud, how are they related? They are Jewish laws first and foremost, but with a conclusion per say. They were never abolished, they were expanded upon so that Jesus could finish them and pay for sins.

I will give a link to show what the 613 are that we follow and you can then see how they were all from 5 books of the Old Testament and were all derived from the first 10 Commandments. http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

I'm not sure I described this fully, it's more complicated than just a mere reply window can hold lol.

Wow! This is why I asked if you could explain it, LOL! What a great answer!

 

[deanws]

I visited St. Augustine these past two weeks and I saw the Blood and Ink display. It was wonderful!!! They addressed the movie compared to the historical facts of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Bibles displayed were beautiful. If any of you are in the Florida area, it is worth the time to view this display.

 

[Maral]

Hi DK
I am trying to understand this struggling bit.....'resisting the temptation to sin', how do you mean sin??
I want to understand what you think sins are....

You are going to hate me for this but your last sentence makes me sad for you lol
That is what they want you to believe, that you are a target, can't you see that they want to control you with fear....you are scared to death of sinning so you struggle daily....
I so don't think life is meant to be like that...worrying about going to hell every day.

I don't think you need a Bible or to follow what the Bible lays out for you in order to know right from wrong.
It's wrong to lie....that should not be a temptation, is it??

Is lying considered a sin??

Narla, I suppose that there are some who only resist temptation to sin out of fear, but those that are secure in their faith struggle to resist that temptation out of love.

The sum of the Ten Commandments is to love God with all our heart, soul, strength, and mind and to love our neighbor as ourselves.

What motivates us to obey God's Commandments is knowing that He loves us despite our sins.

 

[Glow]

Wow! This is why I asked if you could explain it, LOL! What a great answer!

BhamMama,

I am gathering from your post that you are Jewish. Therefore your post makes sense to me for the most part. It is entirely appropriate for a Jewish person to consider themselves "under the law" and that would include the 10 commandments.

Paul however did not stay with his Jewish faith. Instead he beame a Christian (follower of Christ) and he urged others to his viewpoints.

That is why I am only quoting him and not trying to interpret for others what he "meant" to say. He was a lawyer and he expressed himself quite eloquently.

btw I am a great respecter of your faith. Where we differ in opinion is in that I feel the Ten Commandments were part of the code of laws given to Moses for the Jews. However the principles they embody are timeless.

 

[Glow]

DK,

I decided to post to you and BhamMama separately so this didnt become a communication tangle

As I said above I understand how the Jews view the Law as well as the 10 commandments that were part of that law.

My original statement to Narla was based on me assuming that she was not Jewish and therefor not under law, including the 10 commandments. That in no way detracts from the fact that the 10 commandments are not a wonderful code to live by because they are. I am simply saying that unless a person is Jewish the "command" part doesnt apply to them. Many good people live by the principles embodied in the 10 commandments and they are neither Jews nor Christian.

Paul was a Christian who had been a Jew previously and that is why I chose to quote him directly.

He made it pretty clear over and over again.

Here is one example where he actually quoted the "10 Commandments" as part of what Christians had been released from.

This is Romans 13; 8-10

"He that loveth has fulfilled the law. For this,Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Love worketh no ill to thy neighbor therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

 

[Glow]

can you imagine at my house last christmas when it fell on the same night as the first night of hanukkah, we were celebrating the birth of christ the first half of the day, and then the second half, we were spinning the dreidel and lighting the menorah. hell, i feel like we can still celebrate his birth, but that he isn't the son of god or divine. how's that for justification. you can imagine the chaos in my house. i guess it's religion according to ellen.

Hi Ellen!

Your post had me laughing. Lots of joy at your house that day huh!

Also, thanks for starting this thread and sorry for my little role in taking it somewhat off topic :twocents:
I really love hearing everyones thoughts though!

 

[lynie]

DK asked if I could share our view of how Mosiac law relates to the 10 Commandments.

First I must tell you that our Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament. All of the 613 Commandments, except the ones given to Moses, are found there. The Laws of Moses are the first 10, of course, and all the others are from those 10.

I can only tell you what I know from my perspective. Our laws are seen as a gift, not a curse or a thing to take away pleasure. If you love G-d, you are pleased to follow them. Most of the Commandments are ceremonial, cleanliness (it's where we get kosher from) and the like, but the main difference is, they are not only a set of religious enforcable laws, but civil as well. There is oral law, civil law and written law. Judaism draws no distinction in its laws between religious and non-religious life.

As far as Jesus abolishing the law, he did not. In his sermon on the mount he says specifically that he did not come to abolish them. Remember, he was speaking to Jews. At that time he was gathering followers and saying he was the manifestation of those Jewish laws. He was trying to show them that their traditional teachings were evading these laws. They had spent so much time gathering teachings that they were forgetful of just what they were suppose to be teaching about. To the point that it may have been thought of as idoltry, a sin, breaking a commandment by trying to follow a commandment.

Paul said that Mosiac law was a middle wall of partition that seperated the Jews from the Gentiles. Before this everyone was under the Patriarchal system, then the Hebrew were seperated as a holy people and Gentiles continued under the Patriarchal system until they were given the gospel.

Back to the Jews evading laws. It was really that they were blinded by their teachings that they could not see how G-d could have any plans for any other nation but their own. They were 'chosen' right? But in truth you can't really seperate one from the other until the Revelation of the Gentiles, which was what Peter received.

We are taught that the laws were just magnified, not written over, not taken away then re established. It would have been treason most high if Paul had tried to say he had re written any laws. In essence these men were still Jewish and thought that way. They thought that Jesus manifested everything that was the essence of the Jewish laws, as a fulfilment of Mosiac Law.

And just to make this clear as mud, how are they related? They are Jewish laws first and foremost, but with a conclusion per say. They were never abolished, they were expanded upon so that Jesus could finish them and pay for sins.

I will give a link to show what the 613 are that we follow and you can then see how they were all from 5 books of the Old Testament and were all derived from the first 10 Commandments. http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

I'm not sure I described this fully, it's more complicated than just a mere reply window can hold lol.

:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Thank you so much BhamMama for a wonderful post! I have been staying away from this thread for some time because of the direction it was going. Your post provided excellent information that I had often wondered about, and was so well written!

Thanks for taking the time....;o)

Lynie

 

[Dark Knight]

DK,

I decided to post to you and BhamMama separately so this didnt become a communication tangle

As I said above I understand how the Jews view the Law as well as the 10 commandments that were part of that law.

My original statement to Narla was based on me assuming that she was not Jewish and therefor not under law, including the 10 commandments. That in no way detracts from the fact that the 10 commandments are not a wonderful code to live by because they are. I am simply saying that unless a person is Jewish the "command" part doesnt apply to them. Many good people live by the principles embodied in the 10 commandments and they are neither Jews nor Christian.

Paul was a Christian who had been a Jew previously and that is why I chose to quote him directly.

He made it pretty clear over and over again.

Here is one example where he actually quoted the "10 Commandments" as part of what Christians had been released from.

This is Romans 13; 8-10

"He that loveth has fulfilled the law. For this,Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Love worketh no ill to thy neighbor therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

I disagree, Christians are very much bound by the 10 Commandments, it's part of our Judeo-Christian religion. I don't know of any Christian church that doesn't believe the 10 Commandments are applicable only to Jews. We are freed from the 600 other Mosaic laws, but not the Decalogue. The other Jewish laws are what Paul and others were speaking of.

 

[Glow]

Well It's ok if we disagree right? This thread has provided lots of food for thought and I respect your thoughts.

Bottom line? Many people in the Bible pleased God apart from the law (Noah, Job, Abraham & others) I feel it is still possible to please God apart from viewing the 10 as law. I do feel they are wonderful guiding principals however.

I did a term paper years ago on ways the Law benefited the Jews physically compared to the medical health of the nations around them. I developed an enormous appreciation for this unique document. It has in fact no equal.
So as far as respect I think that you and I do agree on that one point.

You mentioned that you didnt know of any Christian church that doesnt feel they are still binding today. I agree with you there also.

And yet, other than the Jews and the Seventh Day Adventists, who keeps the Sabbath? Nobody. And that was one of the 10 commandments. So they believe it "en masse" but they dont DO it?

This is why I shake my head at organized religion as a whole.

As I said earlier, I appreciate where you're coming from and enjoy reading all your posts DK. :blowkiss:

 

[Glow]

I visited St. Augustine these past two weeks and I saw the Blood and Ink display. It was wonderful!!! They addressed the movie compared to the historical facts of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Bibles displayed were beautiful. If any of you are in the Florida area, it is worth the time to view this display.

I live near St. Augustine and hadnt even heard of this deandaniellws!


Where is this exhibit?

 

[ellen13]

Hi Ellen!

Your post had me laughing. Lots of joy at your house that day huh!

Also, thanks for starting this thread and sorry for my little role in taking it somewhat off topic :twocents:
I really love hearing everyones thoughts though!

thanks glow! glad I made you laugh-although, i think starting this thread wasn't the best idea in the world-my grandfather always said never discuss religion or politics-i guess I didn't listen too well. I liked reading about your story too!
regards,
ellen:blowkiss:

 

[deanws]

I live near St. Augustine and hadnt even heard of this deandaniellws!


Where is this exhibit?

It is in Daytona. Here is the link. If you go, be sure to spend the extra 5.00 for the narrated part. http://www.inkandblood.com/ The tour was 17.00 total. It was worth every penny.