Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder #2

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Can you please provide the link for when MS said that MM was going to get her license and do the driving to Alberta? I am unable to locate that. I recall it being said that MM didn't want to go to Alberta. moo

--here are some of the tweets when she was testifying about possibly getting her license, although it isn't mentioned if she wanted to go to Calgary or not. I would assume if MS was going, she would too given the fact that she had said "we're next!" re getting married, she also thought that she was pregnant at the time MS was arrested...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306022-Bosma-Murder-Trial-04-25-16-Day-39/page15

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 33s34 seconds ago
Sachak asks if she's seen Smich's Facebook photo. Yes she has. It had a big Cadillac emblem. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 28s29 seconds ago
You've seen #Smich FaceBook profile. A big cadillac photo. He loved that red cadillac. Even sings about it in his rap songs.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 17s17 seconds ago
Millard had a red Cadillac, she agrees. Smich loved it. Helped work on it. He'd rap about a Cadillac. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 40s40 seconds ago
But he didn't have a license. Discussions of Millard giving him that Cadillac--and then maybe putting it in her name or his mom's name.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 36s36 seconds ago
#Smich would help #Millard fix the cadillac. He didn't have a license. Meneses was going to maybe get a license and put it in her name

Smich was talking about moving to Calgary for a bit, Sachak says. Meneses agrees.
by Adam Carter 2:31 PM

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 53s54 seconds ago
#Smich wanted to move to Calgary, where his sister Andrea was living.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
There was also talk of Smich wanting to move to Calgary in May 2013--and take the Cadillac. His sister Andrea was living there. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 54s55 seconds ago
#Smich wanted to take the red cadillac to Calgary.[SUB][/SUB]
 
When looking at the facts of the case, I'm not seeing any reasonable doubt in relation to the guilt of either of the men for the murder of Tim Bosma. When I asked what facts of evidence point to reasonable doubt, I was told that it has been discussed so often that there's no point in repeating any single reason for reasonable doubt.

The man who did not testify has been described as a "psychopath", and the man who did testify has apparently given reasonable doubt about his guilt. I don't know why that is, because given the conduct of these men, both appear to have antisocial personality disorder.

There was no trial evidence wrt personality disorders in either of the accused. It's speculation by the publc. Lots of people have personality disorders .. the existence of such doesn't make them guilty.
 
The Eliminator texts, regardless of their dates, were extremely important texts to be entered into evidence and had tremendous value and bearing in this trial, because Tim was incinerated in it.

(Sorry, forgot to use the reply button ... This was in response to an earlier post regarding a point made about the timing of the Eliminator texts.)

MOO
Yes the two incinerator texts and their interpretation back in 2012 were the only piece of circumstantial evidence that could possibly link this as premeditation for MS IMO. Of course it wasn't going to be excluded, regardless of dates. But probably could be argued considering it was a full year prior and if it meant anything, one could conclude it would more likely be in reference to LB. MOO
 
I' not interested in debating the verdict anymore...just puzzling what turned these men into monsters.

They never acted crazy...I don't think they were born this way. I think they were bent.

Suppose we will never know but, I wonder how the young lad Hussey (iirc) is doing and the dirt biker that seen the eliminator within the bushes.
Imo, there were some innocent people in DM's circle, dragged into this trial.
The mind is a powerful thing, never been involved with drugs but I'm sure that didn't help their mental state. To understand what's going on within the mind of dm and Ms, Imo, you would have to live within their head.
This was an unfortunate crime which has caused people to become (imo) less willing to trust.
 
There was no trial evidence wrt personality disorders in either of the accused. It's speculation by the publc. Lots of people have personality disorders .. the existence of such doesn't make them guilty.

You have to look at how personality disorders are defined and you see it involves a lot of antisocial behavior which is so many words for "breaking the law".
 
There was no trial evidence wrt personality disorders in either of the accused. It's speculation by the publc. Lots of people have personality disorders .. the existence of such doesn't make them guilty.

Quite true. They were found guilty based on the facts of the case, and there was no reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors to find them guilty of anything other than first degree murder.
 
I' not interested in debating the verdict anymore...just puzzling what turned these men into monsters.

They never acted crazy...I don't think they were born this way. I think they were bent.

Nature, nurture, lack of nurture, drugs, brain damage... I don't think we'll ever have an answer to that. I saw a sign once years ago that said "it's easier to raise a healthy child than it is to repair a broken adult". It stuck with me how important it is to raise kids in a healthy environment. Even then, you can't control what/who they become as adults but I suspect the odds are a lot lower they'll turn into a monster that kills people and smiles at widows in courtrooms.
 
Yes the two incinerator texts and their interpretation back in 2012 were the only piece of circumstantial evidence that could possibly link this as premeditation IMO. Of course it wasn't going to be excluded, regardless of dates. But probably could be argued considering it was a full year prior and if it meant anything, one could conclude it would more likely be in reference to LB. MOO

Yes, but it was, in fact, used to incinerate Tim. Extremely valuable evidence with great bearing in this trial, being as the remains of Tim were discovered in it, as well as Tim's blood/DNA on it, regardless of the texted dates. The purchase of the Eliminator, regardless of date, had to be introduced as proof of its purchase, the texts for examples of premeditation. I do not believe this can be argued about at all, IMO.

And, additionally, those same texts most likely will have significant bearing in the LB trial.

MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Nature, nurture, lack of nurture, drugs, brain damage... I don't think we'll ever have an answer to that. I saw a sign once years ago that said "it's easier to raise a healthy child than it is to repair a broken adult". It stuck with me how important it is to raise kids in a healthy environment. Even then, you can't control what/who they become as adults but I suspect the odds are a lot lower they'll turn into a monster that kills people and smiles at widows in courtrooms.

Puts a whole new meaning to Spare the rod, Spoil the child.
Proverbs 13:24, “He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.”
 
Yes, but it was, in fact, used to incinerate Tim. Extremely valuable evidence with great bearing in this trial, being as the remains of Tim were discovered in it, as well as Tim's blood/DNA on it, regardless of the texted dates. The purchase of the Eliminator, regardless of date, had to be introduced as proof of its purchase, the texts for examples of premeditation. I do not believe this can be argued about at all, IMO.

And, additionally, those same texts most likely will have significant bearing in the LB trial.

MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I should have clarified and corrected my post. The link of premeditation for MS. Two texts about an incinerator from a year prior. The link however between DM and SS is an entirely different story.
 
Hey all, wanted to say I meant no offense in my earlier post when I said Smitch had some here fooled, I include myself in that, he had me going for a good while there.
I just think he is very bright and very skilled at manipulating the facts. That's why I find him so scary and am happy he is no longer on the streets.

Also, just because I think the verdict and punishment is fair for the crime, it doesn't mean I don't find it sad. I find it even sadder seeing how quick Smitch is, he really could have made
something of himself if he had stayed on the right path. Heck, his rap performances while he was high were terrible but with his off the cuff one liners during the trial he possibly could
have even realized his dream of writing rap songs. I feel very bad for his family. I have a harder time feeling any sympathy for DM's but I am trying. I would love to hear more from the uncle.

Have to say, this is all about justice for Tim but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I found the trial to be a page/thread turner, it was absolutely fascinating. I'm anxiously awaiting the other trials so we
can get ALL the information. God, Tim could be any of the guys I know, terrifying, I think that's why were are so emotionally invested/passionate about the case. Again, sorry if I offended. I suck through text
and don't realize till after how things come off sometimes.
 
Does anyone know what ever became of LB's missing iPad? I was thinking maybe that was the one DM gave MS.
 
Nature, nurture, lack of nurture, drugs, brain damage... I don't think we'll ever have an answer to that. I saw a sign once years ago that said "it's easier to raise a healthy child than it is to repair a broken adult". It stuck with me how important it is to raise kids in a healthy environment. Even then, you can't control what/who they become as adults but I suspect the odds are a lot lower they'll turn into a monster that kills people and smiles at widows in courtrooms.

Well considering it's been said how close the Smich family is.....
 
Does anyone know what ever became of LB's missing iPad? I was thinking maybe that was the one DM gave MS.
A few people have said that is what they suspect. I'm interested to see the evidence in this next case. I sure hope it's more then an iPad that again was given to MS by DM (strikingly similar to the gun IMO), and a few texts.
 
As far as I can see the Smich reasonable doubters just dismiss all the evidence and say they believe his story. Where do you stand on Meneses' testimony about the celebration, his 100-plus post-murder text messages to Millard including talk about his wedding suit and chilling out, Daly's testimony that Smich was perfectly fine that week until Millard got arrested?

How do you explain all his pre-murder texts about the BBQ, his gun obsession, his change of clothes, etc? And what about the fact that he draws a complete blank on his gun burial and 50-minute meeting with Millard before his arrest while remembering other things crystal clear?

I've only scratched the surface, <modsnip>


I don&#8217;t say I believe all of his testimony, but I feel his story is plausible in relation to the evidence. For those who say his testimony is geared to the evidence, what else would it be geared to if not to refute something that someone is using to nail your butt to the wall with a life sentence? Of course an accused will attempt to explain evidence that others feel points to his guilt. Why wouldn&#8217;t he?

MM&#8217;s original use of the word &#8216;happy&#8217; in her initial interview that somehow morphed into &#8216;celebration&#8217; (or celebratory?) just prior to trial makes me think she embellished for whatever reason.

If I was of a criminal bent and knew that my buddy had just killed a guy, recognizing what my lunatic friend was capable of might lead me to act as if what he did didn&#8217;t bother me. If my buddy is capable of killing a guy, then he&#8217;s capable of killing me if a pee him off. Talk of a wedding suit? Well, there was a wedding coming up. I don&#8217;t&#8217; place a lot of credence on BD&#8217;s testimony given that he previously lied through his teeth and seemed to gear his answers to whichever lawyer happened to be questioning him.

WRT the sausages &#8230; DM previously specified he wanted &#8220;bacon&#8221; at a barbeque. There is a pic (not in evidence) of AM (I think with MH or BD behind him) barbequing with sausages on the grill. DM seems to get what DM wants. Perhaps he didn&#8217;t like sausages, specified bacon, and it was MS's way of teasing that they were going to served. Why else would DM talk about bacon? As for a pic of fireside furniture, I believe it was in evidence (?) that they would scope out locations for desireable items. Can't recall if they shared pics of such items, but could have just been an idea for any upcoming summertime event/barbeque. Gun obsession? I know lots of people who legally possess guns who haven&#8217;t killed anyone (LE, personal protection). Change of clothes? This was something that was previously associated with other scoping missions, so not just this particular theft/murder.

As for drawing a blank on the gun burial &#8230; yeah, I say probably hogwash on that, but given the gun was acquired illegally through MS&#8217;s associates, I can see MS being terrified that if that gun could be traced back, he was in pretty big trouble with the n****s who don&#8217;t mess around.

We don&#8217;t know what that 50 min meeting with DM consisted of so we have nothing to compare. It could have been discussing any number of things. We don&#8217;t know; he doesn&#8217;t remember. He referred to his emotions as shock, paranoia, stress, so it is possible that is a segment of the whole event he simply doesn&#8217;t recall the specifics.

Other Supreme Court rulings on appeal address benefit of the doubt to the appellant (accused), i.e.:

From:
http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1320/index.do?r=AAAAAQAKUGVyc29ubmUgYgE

Moreover, in several passages, the trial judge properly instructed them on the proper standard of proof. The Chief Justice was also of the view that this particular instruction was still generally favourable to the appellant because it reminded the jury that the appellant was entitled to the benefit of the doubt. Therefore, McEachern C.J.B.C. concluded that the jury would not have been misled by this unfortunate instruction. He found it probable that the jury, rather than parsing the sentence, would have regarded the sentence as a reminder that the benefit of the doubt always went to the appellant.

I consider some of his testimony plausible, and some of the evidence as having the potential for other explanations. I also know that we can believe all, some, or none of the accused's testimony, and give the benefit of the doubt to the accused according to Supreme Court guidelines.
 
A few people have said that is what they suspect. I'm interested to see the evidence in this next case. I sure hope it's more then an iPad that again was given to MS by DM (strikingly similar to the gun IMO), and a few texts.

I guess we'll be seeing Mama Millard as a witness in CN's trial and the trial for Wayne Millard.
 
I guess we'll be seeing Mama Millard as a witness in CN's trial and the trial for Wayne Millard.
I'm willing to bet Mama Millard will be subpoenaed by the crown and called to the stand this go round.
 
I' not interested in debating the verdict anymore...just puzzling what turned these men into monsters.

They never acted crazy...I don't think they were born this way. I think they were bent.

Going on just what little we know...

To start, DM's financial situation provided him with a sense of invulnerability and power that his friends felt surrounded them too. They also hadn't emotionally or intellectually matured much, if any, beyond adolescent, maintaining that natural state of invulnerability.

I wonder if LB's death was accidental though a tox screen would show drugs and they were drugs DM had supplied. Rather than risk prison or even legal hassles, he solved it with money by buying the Eliminator.

While I don't doubt they both had issues beforehand, I think that experience would change anyone. When shared with a buddy, rather than struggle with ethics and cognitive dissonance, they wove it into their invulnerability cloaks.

Was the thievery to attain a similar albeit less risky adrenaline rush? (DM was an adrenaline junkie, which pilots have said isn't unexpected from someone who learned to fly as a teen.)

Whatever was going on between DM and WM perhaps became an intolerable problem and/or his death was a perceived solution to DM's financial problems. Seeming to get away with his murder was further empowering.

The solutions to those two "problems" were combined when faced with another challenge though I wouldn't be surprised if TB's murder was primarily about the rush and the truck was a bonus.

Neither had passions or realistic legit plans to pursue and keep them busy. Then suddenly they were "successful" at something beyond drug sales, which apparently they also intended to ramp up. Add in cocaine which is so psychologically addictive because of it creates euphoria and a strong sense of invulnerability.

Just off the top of my head, the trial was so consuming I've not given it much thought.
 
If their only intent was to steal a truck, they would have stolen a parked truck off the street. Instead, they hijacked a truck, kidnapped the driver, murdered the driver, and used the incinerator to hide their criminal activities. The reason they did not kidnap Igor is because he is Israeli military.

If their only intent was to murder they would have taken a person off the street (Laura). If their intent was to murder a person while stealing a truck they would have targeted and searched for a person with a more rural location such as TB. Was there any other searches on any of the computers with parameters outside the GTA??? If their intent was to murder why tell everyone???? MOO. I believe whole heartedly that DM is "one sick prick", and absolutely deserved Ist degree/Murder 1, however, I simply do not see nor believe MS signed up for what went down on May 6th. I feel that the fact that MS was tried alongside with DM hurt his own defence. Too much evidence has been held back in order to protect the integrity of future trials (LB, WM) and accused (DM, MWJ, CN). When all of the evidence is finally revealed after the final trial we all will be able to assess the reality of all the evidence against all the accused and aiders & abettors. When we finally get to see all 26,000 of Dm's text and hear all the evidence that isn't protected and it is obvious that MS knew and did much more then what has been provided so far I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I have grown up my entire life within a couple of miles of TB and am devastated and heartbroken by this senseless murder and want to see justice served and the right person pay for this horrendous crime. I am also painfully aware of the losses of other people such as MS's mother and family, MB and even the, the horrific CN and even MS. These people may not be considered anyone you would associate with, smoke pot, steal, etc but they have also lost so much and have had their lives destroyed as well all over an association with DM. Will crucifying them bring justice for TB & SB?
 
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