Verdict=**Guilty** & poll

[leighmarker]

I was thinking about Tammi last night and I have to say, I really feel bad for her, in a way. She had a terrible up-bringing and ended up getting the training she needed to earn a living. When you look at her upbringing, it is a story of abandonment and probably a lot of abuse.
.

I could understand you feeling that way, I want to feel sorry for her but I just can't. There are just too many people who have crappy childhoods and wind up being upstanding citizens. She isn't a child, she knows right from wrong IMO....I think she is just selfish and didn't care about anyone else but what "she" wanted.

 

[artsy1]

Morning, all! :seeya:

Well, if I were on the jury, even if I already thought TPS was guilty on both counts, I would want to look at the transcripts (that they hadn't seen during trial) and listen to the search warrant interview where TPS tells Det. Ramirez to sit on the floor (that they hadn't heard during trial) - just to dot their i's and cross their t's - so that the defense couldn't come back and say they didn't base their decision without looking at ALL the evidence. JMHO

As far as the custodial interference, I would say that TPS' phone call to Judge McVay alone on January 4, 2010 - after Elizabeth had been arrested - asking him to give Gabriel back to them, since she still had the guardianship papers, should be proof enough. That had absolutely nothing to do with getting Elizabeth back, since she was already in jail! Again, JMHO


ETA: And I hadn't considered this before, but on January 4, 2010, that guardianship would have already been void for 2 reasons.

1) I didn't realize until closing arguments that TPS didn't put a space for the father to sign on that paper that Elizabeth had signed. Since Logan was legally established as Gabriel's father on December 17, he would have had to sign that paper, too, to make it valid.

2) The judge awarded Logan FULL CUSTODY of Gabriel after Elizabeth ran off to San Antonio at the emergency hearing in December 2009. So Elizabeth had no legal rights to Gabriel, so anything she signed was not legal from that moment on.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Morning peoples :wave:

Wowza artsy, you make great points there. Girl, I can barely put my bra on forward before some :coffee: --speaking of bras, any news on our favorite wine sipper? Is she going to wear something dashing to the red carpet today?

 

[azwriter]

Good morning! Verdict watch has to be the hardest part of any trial!

I was thinking about Tammi last night and I have to say, I really feel bad for her, in a way. She had a terrible up-bringing and ended up getting the training she needed to earn a living. When you look at her upbringing, it is a story of abandonment and probably a lot of abuse.

I think she sincerely believes that she did the right thing by trying to help people. Where she went wrong was in not respecting boundaries. She inserted herself relentlessly into the lives of people she wanted to help.

Had she really wanted to help EJ, she could have helped her cope with the fact that she didn't want Gabriel and Logan did. She would not have judged Logan before talking to him and getting to know him. She could have mediated between the two and pointed out that Gabriel's welfare was the most important thing for both of them.

Her own desire for a child overrode common sense and made her go over the line into criminal activity.

Is she guilty of the charges? IMHO, she is. I hope the jury can get by this "conondrum" and move on to the facts.

This is a well thought out, carefully written post. I get what you're saying. But for me, I think Tammi saw Logan as the enemy immediately. He was the only thing holding up her plans from getting the baby. She hated him and did what she could to turn others against him in the overwhelming desire she had for Gabriel.

I do believe Tammi has always figured she could talk her way out of anything, lies or not. I see that as a sign of an abused child who grows up but never grows away from their childhood experiences.

That doesn't excuse her behavior and scheming in this case. She is guilty on both accounts. JMHO.

 

[gitana1]

I'm in court and once the Judge takes the bench, I can't read the thread. But I will get email notifications of any messages and can check on break. Can anyone message me if a verdict comes in?

 

[gitana1]

Ps. I just saw the tags. Nearly burst out laughing in a courtroom full of people. Prison enemas?

 

[artsy1]

Morning peoples :wave:

Wowza artsy, you make great points there. Girl, I can barely put my bra on forward before some :coffee: --speaking of bras, any news on our favorite wine sipper? Is she going to wear something dashing to the red carpet today?

:seeya:

:floorlaugh: I've had my coffee already this morning.

 

[seattlechiquita]

IS just tweeted that jury will resume deliberations at 10:30 AZ time.... :waiting:

 

[CarolinaMoon]

This is a well thought out, carefully written post. I get what you're saying. But for me, I think Tammi saw Logan as the enemy immediately. He was the only thing holding up her plans from getting the baby. She hated him and did what she could to turn others against him in the overwhelming desire she had for Gabriel.

I do believe Tammi has always figured she could talk her way out of anything, lies or not. I see that as a sign of an abused child who grows up but never grows away from their childhood experiences.

That doesn't excuse her behavior and scheming in this case. She is guilty on both accounts. JMHO.

That's the thing that really gets me. She wanted to help people by helping herself first and foremost. There is a terrific amount of selfishness in her. It's too bad she didn't really care at all what she did to others. EJ, with all her mental instability was a perfect patsy to get a child, or so she thought. I agree totally that she judged Logan on EJ's word. It was convenient for her to do so.

 

[artsy1]

I'm in court and once the Judge takes the bench, I can't read the thread. But I will get email notifications of any messages and can check on break. Can anyone message me if a verdict comes in?

Sure we can - just be aware you may get 23 texts - one from everybody! LOL :seeya:

 

[artsy1]

Posted one hour ago

MC Superior Court‏@courtpio

Tammi Smith Trial: The jury will return to deliberate at 9:30am.


IS doesn't know ***** from shinola. Good thing they're not colon hydrotherapists! :floorlaugh:

 

[seattlechiquita]

Posted one hour ago

MC Superior Court‏@courtpio

Tammi Smith Trial: The jury will return to deliberate at 9:30am.


IS doesn't know ***** from shinola. Good thing they're not colon hydrotherapists! :floorlaugh:

:rocker: you are awesome :floorlaugh:

 

[seattlechiquita]

in other news, Donna Summer died

 

[luckygirl]

in other news, Donna Summer died

I just read that!

 

[Cherry Baby]

That's so sad about Donna, what an incredible voice. Friggin cancer, I hate it. Donald 'Duck' Dunn just died recently as well, in his sleep bless him. If you don't know who he is, watch The Blues Brothers, he's the bassist, and a great musician who was part of Booker T & The MG's.

Oh, it would be great to get some good news today out of an Arizona courthouse then, wouldn't it?

 

[artsy1]

in other news, Donna Summer died

:what: :tears:

That's sad - I grew up with her music.

 

[luvlife]

Does anyone have the seal up on a site yet? If so what site.

TIA

 

[Coldpizza]

Hi all,IS just reported 2 Jurors are late

 

[Coldpizza]

Does anyone have the seal up on a site yet? If so what site.

TIA

The links are on pg 1 of this thread

hth

 

[artsy1]

Hi all,IS just reported 2 Jurors are late

:waitasec: How can they be late, if IS is reporting they won't start deliberating for another 45 minutes? :floorlaugh: