Verdict Watch Discussion Thread

[robynhood]

Interesting read in Toronto Star ( I think ) yesterday....Millard will be charged IF FOUND GUILY OF ANY KIND OF MURDER of Tim Bosma he will get LIFE in Prison.....unless the jury finds him Innocent which IMO I highly DOUBT...JMHO they are both GUILTY of 1st degree murder and getting rid of all evidence any way they could including using that incinerator @ Millard Hanger...I cannot wait to hear th jury decision ...been 3 years and IMO our Justice system is very lacking >>>>...IMO I feel the Le did an excellent job of giving tons of evidence .As the crown clearly stated " It does not matter who pulled the trigger " both MS & DM took Tim Bosma out for a test drive and IMO they had evil intent....stealing a truck and bring a GUN...Robynhood..again these are JMHO..

 

[meterclicks]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
"It was brought out at parties," Hagerman said of toolbox. But agrees Millard didn't tell him on this date it had drugs in it. Didn't ask.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman says he'd seen it at Millard's home in Etobicoke. The toolbox was "narcotics and drugs that were brought out at parties" #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
Tool box was at DM home. Hagerman says it was for drugs. "brought out at parties". crown asks did DM say if were drugs inside. He didn't ask

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Seen it at Maplegate. "Just around the house." What was in toolbox back then? "Just narcotics, drugs, that were brought out at parties."

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman said he associated the box with "narcotics and drugs that were brought out at parties." #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman said he had seen the toolbox before at Millard's place. He said it had "narcotics" in it that were "brought out at parties." #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman had seen the toolbox before at Maplegate. In his mind he had "a sure idea of what was in it." Narcotics. Drugs. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
The toolbox held the murder weapon, according to Smich and the gun residue found inside the top compartment. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman said to his mind he was sure of what was in the toolbox. Later jury heard the toolbox often held drugs at Millard's parties. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
"I'd seen that toolbox in the past," he says. "I had a sure idea in my mind of what was in it." #TimBosma

 

[andreww]

I think it doesn't matter what I think since we obviously don't agree, but since you asked ...
I think AM was way too close to the situation and got himself arrested - had he been in the vehicle with DM that night, he'd be on trial for M1 and I could see him going away for life.
I do not feel he was a creditable witness, he was DM's close friend and absolutely lied for him, then and now - if you're asking about motivation, ask yourself why any of the key players lied for DM (also ask yourself if CN is telling the truth and didn't actually get in contact with AM to tell him anything DM said in the letters, all we know is she SAID she didn't, which I don't believe for a second)

AM couldn't even keep his story straight about the backpack. Tells MH it was given to him by DM
But apparently according to AM he didn't see DM after May 7. So how was the backpack given to him by DM??
On May 7, DM told him he stole the truck, but the next thing he knows DM is arrested May 10.
He lived with the guy .. ya ok.
MOO

I agree, all of Millard's gang lied, but only to minimize their involvement from what I can tell. You honestly think at this point in time AM is going to lie in court to protect Dellen Millard? Himself, absolutely, Millard, never.

AM couldn't even keep his story straight about the backpack. Tells MH it was given to him by DM
But apparently according to AM he didn't see DM after May 7. So how was the backpack given to him by DM??


Telephone? Text?

On May 7, DM told him he stole the truck, but the next thing he knows DM is arrested May 10.
He lived with the guy .. ya ok.


Well evidence has showed that Millard was indeed working almost around the clock during that period. Someone who had a meeting with him said that he looked like crap and obviously hadn't showered, which would suggest that he hadn't been home. Add to that that Millard had the Riverside condo or the Hangar that he was known to stay at, I don't find it hard to believe at all.

 

[canadiangirl]

I stated quite clearly that IMOO "the crown has not proven the case against MS beyond a reasonable doubt as it has with DM. I further went on to say that again, MOO What is proven beyond a doubt was that he was with DM that night and helped clean up, everything else is ones own perception and conjecture of the facts.

I believe it is reasonable to question the conflicting testimony of AM & MH regarding the "thing" and have reasonable doubt about MS's knowledge of and expectations regarding the gun MOOOOOOOO

Andddd obviously the jury feels the same.
The jury seems to be questioning all the same things us "MS supporters" (love that term for having reasonable doubt), have been asking. It's interesting to watch IMO

So far the possible reasoning for the questions that I see are,

1. Did Tim leave for fuel beforehand (trying to reason the 3 truck passes with the SS video IMO)
2. MH testimony (IMO they are looking to review the testimony from the witness they deem more credible)

JMO

 

[Typhoo1961]

I wonder if Millard will be charged for that shiv and possession of a knife and marijuana while in jail.

I wonder how he got it in the first place.

 

[meterclicks]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman said he never once tried to see what was inside. Crown asks if he got a sense of the weight. He said maybe 4 or 5 lbs. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
Did he look inside? "Never once." He never shook it. Weighed 4-5 pounds. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
crown. "why didn't u ask" hargerman. i'd seen it over the yrs and assumed what it was. hid it in his fruit cellar.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman "never once" tried to see what was in the toolbox. Weighed 4-5 pounds. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman said he never checked what was in the toolbox. It was locked. #TimBosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman put the toolbox in the fruit cellar on a shelf in his parent's basement. It would have been concealed, but not hidden.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman figured the contents were "what I'd always seen inside of it." So he put in the fruit cellar in the basement of his parents' home

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman did not ask Millard if there were drugs in toolbox, he said. Assumed it had drugs inside. Put it in fruit cellar at parents' home.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
He put it in the fruit cellar in his parents basement. "Slightly concealed but wasn't trying to be hidden," he said. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 7m7 minutes ago
Millard didn't tell him there were drugs in it, Hagerman said. #TimBosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
Millard never told him there were drugs inside, and Hagerman didn't ask, he testified. "I just had seen that exact toolbox over the years."

 

[meterclicks]

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman now describing when Andrew Michalski contacted him, told him Millard was arrested and wanted to meet on May 11. #Bosma #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman worked late May 10. Woke up to missed messages from Michalski, who told him of Millard arrest. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Texts between Hagerman and Michalski. On May 10 and 11. Hagerman worked late on May 10. Woke May 11 to missed messages from Michalski saying

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
why did Hagerman get in touch w Andrew Michalski. Hagerman says he worked late May 10. woke to a bunch of missed msgs. DM had been arrested.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Now getting into Hagerman's contact with Andrew Michalski, Millard's former roommate. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Hearing Hagerman's testimony now about his texts with Michalski on May 10/11. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Now onto texts between Michalski and Hagerman. Saturday May 11, the day after Millard was arrested. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
The tool box held the gun Mark Smich would later bury.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman says he "never once" tried to find out what was inside and it weighed "maybe a coupla pounds." #TimBosma

 

[canadiangirl]

I agree, all of Millard's gang lied, but only to minimize their involvement from what I can tell. You honestly think at this point in time AM is going to lie in court to protect Dellen Millard? Himself, absolutely, Millard, never.

AM couldn't even keep his story straight about the backpack. Tells MH it was given to him by DM
But apparently according to AM he didn't see DM after May 7. So how was the backpack given to him by DM??


Telephone? Text?

On May 7, DM told him he stole the truck, but the next thing he knows DM is arrested May 10.
He lived with the guy .. ya ok.


Well evidence has showed that Millard was indeed working almost around the clock during that period. Someone who had a meeting with him said that he looked like crap and obviously hadn't showered, which would suggest that he hadn't been home. Add to that that Millard had the Riverside condo or the Hangar that he was known to stay at, I don't find it hard to believe at all.

How would AM get the backpack from DM by telephone or text???
My question is, if he hasn't seen DM since May 7, then how did he get the backpack full of weed that he said DM gave him?!

 

[meterclicks]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
May 10 at 10:53 p.m. Michalski wants him to text ASAP. 2:28 a.m. May 11, Hagerman says his phone was being fixed. Just got message.

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
Michalski tells Hagerman to call him may 10th. he didn't get msg for few hrs. says he just got home. what's up. @AM900CHML

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Just before 11pm Michalski texts him 'call me ASAP.' Hagerman responds after 2:30am. Asks what's up. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
This is after they told each other that Millard had given them each something before his arrest on May 10. #TimBosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
The two texted back and forth before meeting up. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Millard is looking over at Smich in the courtroom. Gives him an up and down look. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
At that point Fraser showed Hagerman texts between him and Michalski. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 7m7 minutes ago
He says he met up with Michalski "at the park by my house" on May 11 2013. #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman and Michalski met at the park near his parents' house, he testified. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
Michalski wants to meet up.Michalski had something and knew I had something. They agree to meet in the morning in the park.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
...Millard had been arrested. Said he knew Millard had given Hagerman something and he'd been given something too. Arranged to meet at park.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
Michalski told him Millard was arrested. Said he'd given him something and knew he gave Hagerman something too. Wanted to meet up. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
"Dellen had given him something, and he kew Dellen had given me something as well," Hagerman testified.

 

[meterclicks]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 5m5 minutes ago
Hagerman: What's the situation, crustacean? Then at 11:15 a.m. May 11: Michalski says: We have a situation, I need to meet you at your park.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 5m5 minutes ago
Michalski texted Hagerman: "We have a situation. I need to meet you at your park today." #Bosma #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman texts Michalski back when he gets home from work. He had sent his phone to be fixed. "What's the situation, crustacean?" MH to AM

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
Hagermans phone wasn't working- he didn't learn of DM arrest until he booted up. Msgs flooded in from Michalski.

 

[matou]

Hmmm maybe the jury is thinking there were two guns?

 

[andreww]

Andddd obviously the jury feels the same.
The jury seems to be questioning all the same things us "MS supporters" (love that term for having reasonable doubt), have been asking. It's interesting to watch IMO

So far the possible reasoning for the questions that I see are,

1. Did Tim leave for fuel beforehand (trying to reason the 3 truck passes with the SS video IMO)
2. MH testimony (IMO they are looking to review the testimony from the witness they deem more credible)

JMO

The jury feels the same? Or one stubborn juror has bought in to a line of BS.

 

[andreww]

How would AM get the backpack from DM by telephone or text???
My question is, if he hasn't seen DM since May 7, then how did he get the backpack full of weed that he said DM gave him?!

Um, it was in the house that he lived.

 

[andreww]

Hmmm maybe the jury is thinking there were two guns?

I don't think they are allowed to consider that.

 

[meterclicks]

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
Michalski asks if he has time to do a "quick mission." Hagerman had plans to go to TO with his girlfriend. asks what mission is. @AM900CHML

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Michalski asks him if he can run a quick mission. Hagerman says he doesn't think so, has plans with gf. Asks what it is. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
They plan to meet in part at 4 or 5. Michalski asks if he can run a quick mission. He says he doesn't know, what's the mission?

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Michalski asks Hagerman if he's able to run a quick mission. Hagerman says "I don't know" saying he has plans with his girlfriend. #TimBosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Michalski also asks "are you able to run a quick mission?" #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
They text about a situation. They make plans to meet up in a park. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
Michalski told Hagerman "we have a situation." He wants to meet in the park. Hagerman agrees. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 7m7 minutes ago
Michalski tells Hagerman "hey we have a situation I need to meet you at your park today." #TimBosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
Michalski says "we have a situation. I need to meet u in the park. Hagerman responds. "when do u want to meet." agree to meet at 4-5

 

[Ontario_girl]

There was also the letter from Millard saying Michalski should never had moved what had been hidden. I believe it was AM's decision after talking to CN to drop the "thing" off to MS and not that MS had asked for it

I never heard about this specific letter? That tells me that Dellen was keeping that gun hidden so he could use it for proof with prints later if needed. And that MS hiding it meant he knew his prints were all over it.

 

[meterclicks]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
She's not sitting at back of court, court officers are figuring out what to do with her. She's being escorted out.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
They have stopped the tape. #TimBosma #Bosma #HamOnt

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
"it's really important" testimony now interrupted as woman stumbles into court talking verynloudly. she is being removed. @AM900CHML

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
A woman has just walked into the court and interrupted the proceeding. She muttered something loudly before sitting down. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Michalski tells him "it's really important we'll talk." #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
A woman just walked into the courtroom, said something, and is now kneeling in the corner praying. #TImBosma #Bosma #HamOnt

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Court just interrupted by a woman walking in, talking loudly. Seems unstable. I didn't catch what she said.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Court has just been interrupted by a woman who came in and shouted something about "Innocence."

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Michalski also said, "It's really important, we'll talk. It's about the thing someone gave you." #TimBosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
What's the mission? Hagerman asks Michalski, who says it's really important they talk. #Bosma

 

[Ontario Mom]

I wonder how he got it in the first place.

Watched an episode of Orphan Black the other night where an inmate had a shiv made from the handle of a toothbrush. Inmates learn from others how to use whatever they can, to create whatever they want. As for the pot, I'm sure that's an ongoing issue in jails - drugs being smuggled in by visitors.

 

[meterclicks]

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
Now going back to testimony. " michalski says it's about "the thing." Hagerman assumed it was about the tool box from DM. @AM900CHML

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
Ok, then. We're back to the audio recording. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
Rewinding the testimony a bit to compensate from the distraction. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 7m7 minutes ago
She has been escorted out. They're now continuing the tape. #TimBosma #Bosma #HamOnt

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 7m7 minutes ago
It's unclear what she was saying but she said something about "innocence" and it was "all I had to say." #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
And we continue.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
They escort her out, she mumbles and then says "that's all I have to say."

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
"That's all I have to say," woman says as she's taken out.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 7m7 minutes ago
"That's all I had to say. I'm on my way," she said. I didn't hear what she first said. #TimBosma #Bosma #HamOnt

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
Things are on a bit of a pause after a woman walks in talking. She's sitting in the gallery, appears to be praying.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 7m7 minutes ago
It's clear she's not welcome. She was praying. She's being ushered out by a court services officer. #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
Judge just spoke to court officer, and he's asking her to leave now. We are all waiting. "That's all I have to say," she said, walking out

 

[matou]

OMG what the ****?