Verdict Watch Discussion Thread

[palisadesk]

How long has the longest deliberation in Canada been?

I don't think there are any records that go way back to tell us for certain. But the Pickton trial jury deliberations took nine full days, and a trial to convict a guy who molested boys at Maple Leaf Gardens took ten days of jury deliberations. The Oland case in NB took four days or maybe five, I can't seem to find the exact number. Even when the evidence is overwhelmingly on the "guilty" side, juries seem to take two or three days (Bernardo, Shafia).

I'd be surprised if this one took more than 5 days, although because there are two accused, and a lot of evidence, it's possible.

 

[littlesauce]

It is in the paper. There is three in total now. One I think....this morning.....or yesterday.

The last juror that left with the private note was on Friday. I was there that day to witness.

 

[Ontario Mom]

AP definitely has it out for MS. She was rolling her eyes during his testimony while I was there and scoffing. No ***** that a man who has been in jail for 3+ years looks dead in his eyes. That's probably a pretty normal thing for someone who is incarcerated.

Not too long ago I was discussing this case with someone and we were specifically discussing how the reporters actually report on the daily court proceedings. I think most of them are doing a pretty good job at reporting the facts, but some of them aren't even trying to hide the fact they have a personal opinion of both of the accused. I think that's perfectly understandable, given the horrific nature of this case and the details. But at the same time, I'm just wondering if that doesn't cross some sort of journalistic code of ethics (don't laugh, I don't know what it's called - Journalism 101?) that says they're to report the news, not their interpretation of the news. Not sure if that makes sense.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Very interesting question IMO considering the inconsistencies between the testimony of MH and AM. MH story sounded more like they were dropping the toolbox on MS while AM made it sound like MS asked for it. I think they are deliberating on MS but have agreed already on DM. Was the pact to tell the truth and AM ending up lying.

I also think they are deliberating on MS's testimony. DM's verdict has probably already been decided.

 

[littlesauce]

IMO, MS rarely looks out towards anybody, but yesterday I was about the last one leaving court. (After judge and jury left, loved ones and most of the crowd.) I thought to myself why rush out, maybe I should just be 'brave' and observe, non self consciously. At that point MS was moving right before me leaving and looked and we had eye contact. I did not find his eyes hollow personally.

MS and I have made eye contact on a few occasions and I also did not find him to have that "dead" look that AP has described. I feel sadness in his eyes to be honest. MOO.

 

[Claroon]

Very interesting question IMO considering the inconsistencies between the testimony of MH and AM. MH story sounded more like they were dropping the toolbox on MS while AM made it sound like MS asked for it. I think they are deliberating on MS but have agreed already on DM. Was the pact to tell the truth and AM ending up lying.

If we're going to speculate, I think maybe the pact was about what missions to tell and how much to tell. They both told pretty much about the same missions. Also maybe to not spell out about what kinds of drugs DM sold, And maybe an agreement not to squeal on anyone else. It may have been about the storyline. I don't think who called who really matters. The point was the gun was taken by DM to MH and then to the drop off. Maybe the agreement was to say they didn't know what was in the toolbox?

 

[puppyraiser]

My personal opinion is that the pact was to protect DM and shift all blame towards MS at all cost. Maybe the lies told were by DM and not one of the two we are thinking. The 'other thing' MS asked for was more than likely the toolbox he has always known to contain the harder drugs and ended up also containing the murder weapon he wasn't expecting. AM, MH and DM were friends a lot longer than MS was in the picture. I'm sure they wanted to be loyal to DM until the truth started spilling out and they were getting dragged into the mess with threats of legal action.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Not too long ago I was discussing this case with someone and we were specifically discussing how the reporters actually report on the daily court proceedings. I think most of them are doing a pretty good job at reporting the facts, but some of them aren't even trying to hide the fact they have a personal opinion of both of the accused. I think that's perfectly understandable, given the horrific nature of this case and the details. But at the same time, I'm just wondering if that doesn't cross some sort of journalistic code of ethics (don't laugh, I don't know what it's called - Journalism 101?) that says they're to report the news, not their interpretation of the news. Not sure if that makes sense.

Perhaps it used to be like that, but now a days you've got your Sun newspapers and other broadcasts that want opinion and edginess.

 

[Claroon]

Not too long ago I was discussing this case with someone and we were specifically discussing how the reporters actually report on the daily court proceedings. I think most of them are doing a pretty good job at reporting the facts, but some of them aren't even trying to hide the fact they have a personal opinion of both of the accused. I think that's perfectly understandable, given the horrific nature of this case and the details. But at the same time, I'm just wondering if that doesn't cross some sort of journalistic code of ethics (don't laugh, I don't know what it's called - Journalism 101?) that says they're to report the news, not their interpretation of the news. Not sure if that makes sense.

But we all like to hear what they wore, who they waved at, etc. All is subjective no matter what is reported.

 

[deugirtni]

That's the way I recall it as well. I'd sure love to know what that pact actually entailed though, and which lies were told by whom, about what.

I wonder what the reason was for not even being *asked* what the reason was when they were on the stand? Especially MH since he is the one that mentioned it.

 

[hellkat2]

The last juror that left with the private note was on Friday. I was there that day to witness.

My apologies. I must have been reading an old post. I read it on my cell phone this morning. I don't know how that happened. I thought I was reading posts from today on the CBC posting section. Cripes.

 

[mozzagirl]

Ya, sounds more like a family emergency to me.

That was my thinking too. Maybe a family member of theirs was given days to live and the juror was excused to be with them. Definitely something valid that they wanted to keep private.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Very interesting question IMO considering the inconsistencies between the testimony of MH and AM. MH story sounded more like they were dropping the toolbox on MS while AM made it sound like MS asked for it. I think they are deliberating on MS but have agreed already on DM. Was the pact to tell the truth and AM ending up lying.

This sounds quite logical to me. Both of these guys were DM's friends - not MS's friends. There isn't a single reason I can think of that either of them would lie for the benefit of MS. But plenty that I can think of that either one would lie for DM. Obviously, one of them did & that led to the ending of the friendship.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Kind of surprised Dungey wants the jury to hear the tape of his questioning of MH. He was pretty much taunting him at times. Wouldn't think it would be the best look for MS.

I guess I'm not really surprised, but he did rant at him when MH came off better than most of the crew.

 

[Georgeo]

Everyone is already at the courthouse during the time the jury is deliberating AND this is part of the process.

I see Thx for clarifying. I thought jury was at hotel deliberating.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

ETA: MOO ... Wow ...


From Susan Clairmont:

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/672...by-20-more-things-the-bosma-jury-was-never-t/

"4. Toward the end of its case, the Crown made an "application to view" requesting to take the jury on a 130-km tour of sites associated with the case, ending with a first-hand look at the massive Eliminator, which is too big to be brought into the courthouse."

- - - - - -

"There was also a text exchange between Millard and Smich that was excluded.

Millard: German can find himself a friend.

Smich: under the glove box in the caddy we can build a place for him to live"

- - - - - - -

"When Smich took the stand, he confirmed — in the absence of the jury — that there was more than one gun belonging to him and Millard."

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Ontario Mom]

I wonder what the reason was for not even being *asked* what the reason was when they were on the stand? Especially MH since he is the one that mentioned it.

I wondered the exact same thing. I wonder if he ever told anyone? If it's in the police interview?

 

[hopingforjustice]

Wow @ the wiping away of evidence was only brought out at trial. Can additional charges stem from this?

Question?? re:; CN's testimony not being held against her at her trial

So can this info now be brought up to further the case against her at her own trial or was she protected against that possibility by the law?

 

[Typhoo1961]

I see Thx for clarifying. I thought jury was at hotel deliberating.

Noooo. They are only sequestered there for this part of the trial. They deliberate at the courthouse in the jury room until they reach a verdict.

 

[canadiangirl]

Very interesting question IMO considering the inconsistencies between the testimony of MH and AM. MH story sounded more like they were dropping the toolbox on MS while AM made it sound like MS asked for it. I think they are deliberating on MS but have agreed already on DM. Was the pact to tell the truth and AM ending up lying.

I agree. That is the main difference in their testimony and a big one imo