Very Blonde Girl In Orange Chair With Ashtray

[indiana]

Aackk math rears its ugly head! The 14th is indeed a Wednesday based on my logic below, I can sleuth just not count apparently. Sorry folks!

If it is indeed the 14th and it is March (see below for why it might be March), then the year has to be either 1973 or 1979. Since Alcala was incarcerated in 1973 that makes it likely that it is 1979. Updated the below...

Okay a little photo sleuthing on this one -- I blew up and analyzed various parts of this picture.

#1
Conclusion:

A. the day is Wednesday the 14th (not Tuesday as I first posted) (if the calendar has been moved to the correct day)

B. it is early in the year

C. It may be 1973 or 1979 (not 1972 or 1978 as I first posted) (if we assume the month is March which is plausible but an assumption nonetheless)

Evidence:

A.
For Wednesday the 14th -- based on weeks starting on either Sunday or Monday, the fact that every 7 days the numbers change colors (either green surrounded by yellow or vice versa) and the length of the letters underneath the number, the 18th is a Sunday. Sunday. Monday and Tuesday are all the same length and Wednesday is longer and that seems to be what the calendar shows. With the weeks set off by color and the length of the letters in the days of the week this seems to be the most likely conclusion.

B.
For it being early in the year -- I can clearly see 7 additional colored ribbons behind the green one. There may be more but I can only see 7. That would make it somewhere between Jan and May.

Additionally we see winter gloves on the suitcase which suggests it is still cold out.

C.
We have guessed March because the ribbon is green but that is speculation. Assuming it is March for a minute and it is Wednesday the 14th, then the year would be either 1973 or 1979.
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#2
Conclusion: Either she or Alcala have traveled recently.

Evidence this is almost surely a bag claim tag but could be from any form of transportation. [see tag in above pic with gloves]
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#3
Hypothesis: She may be a flight attendant.

Possible evidence: The sort of upright luggage her gloves are resting on [see full pic earlier in thread] was not common at the time. That type of bag used to be thought of as a flight crew bag. Most people had regular suitcases like this:

The drawstring bag on the floor looks like something you might get from an airline or hotel. The last two letters on the bag look like "es" or "as" Was looking to match it to a hotel or airline but didn't have much luck.

Also, for what it is worth, there may also be luggage to her left but it is hard to tell.

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#4
Hypothesis: She is an adult.

Possible evidence:
-She is smoking
-There is what looks to be a mixed drink next to her
-The gloves are the gloves of an adult
-The luggage does not look like the luggage of a child
-Her posture in this chair seems self assured and more adult like (legs crossed and arm position).

She could still be a child of course.
[for picture evidence: see calendar pic where drink is evident; large pic for smoking, luggage and posture; gloves pic above]
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That's all I have for now. Whew!

 

[Billylee]

I think it might be Leonard Bernstein. I couldn't find a specific album cover that matches, but here's a couple of pics at a similar angle.

http://www.pjvoice.com/v33/photos/lbernstein.jpg
http://www.wfmt.com/img/bernstein/bernstein_conduct1_splash.jpg

I don't think it's Bernstein, I looked at every album cover I could find of him. (Even his own website and discography) And I think the nose is different anyway, no hump.

 

[indiana]

For anyone as "out of the know" as me here is what a philtrum is:

"The groove on the upper lip below the nose is called the philtrum. If it is clearly marked, deep and long, it indicates strong and healthy energy levels and vitality. Flat, weak and unpronounced philtrums are sometimes indicative of reduced life force energy."

from this website http://www.crystalinks.com/faces.html

 

[indiana]

And apparently a cupid brow is the same thing as a philtrum.

Never knew that. Learn something new everyday.

 

[indiana]

Here's a side-by-side of the photos to try and help figure out if #2 fits...

Really hard to figure out because her eyes are not visible.

• The hair is different but I could make an argument for how that could be - curled one day and then not the next.
• Have also been looking at the necklace - it seems like there might be a hint of one in the first photo but it might also be a piece of hair as well.
• The philtrum argument does seem to be at least partially an artifact of lighting given that it can be seen in the 3rd photo.
• I think the eyebrows might be closer to the bridge of the nose in #2.

Bottom line I don't know! If I had to guess I would say different but not feeling confident at all.

 

[Mia]

I'd say these are two different girls. The topless girl has a larger nose than the 'flight attendant' girl (just calling her that for convenience sake), the topless girl looks like she has more meat on her bones than the flight attendant girl, and, the topless girl's hair is darker. I have the same color hair as the topless girl, and there's no way my hair would look as blonde as the flight attendant girl's, no matter what kind of light I was photographed in. The flight attendant girl is way, way blonder. Tow-headed, I'd call her. While the topless girl has dirty blonde hair.

Then again, it could also be the same girl but the photos were taken a couple years apart, so her hair darkened, she gained a bit of weight, etc.

 

[Donjeta]

I'd say these are two different girls. The topless girl has a larger nose than the 'flight attendant' girl (just calling her that for convenience sake), the topless girl looks like she has more meat on her bones than the flight attendant girl, and, the topless girl's hair is darker. I have the same color hair as the topless girl, and there's no way my hair would look as blonde as the flight attendant girl's, no matter what kind of light I was photographed in. The flight attendant girl is way, way blonder. Tow-headed, I'd call her. While the topless girl has dirty blonde hair.

Then again, it could also be the same girl but the photos were taken a couple years apart, so her hair darkened, she gained a bit of weight, etc.

I took them for the same girl, I don't see anything to distinguish between them that I couldn't explain away somehow. The hair looks different color but I think it's the other way around, not a dirty blonde who looks blonde due to lighting but a blonde who looks darker because of the poor lighting, or perhaps because the colors have changed during the storage. When I look at the nude photo I notice that other stuff in the background like the furniture and the brown box looks different color, (darker, grayer), compared to what they have been in some other photos. So why not hair.

 

[bludahlia]

I don't think it's Bernstein, I looked at every album cover I could find of him. (Even his own website and discography) And I think the nose is different anyway, no hump.

it's bernstein. please look here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Leonard-Bernste...ewItemQQptZMusic_on_Vinyl?hash=item518c77fb7a

 

[Mensch]

Okay a little photo sleuthing on this one -- I blew up and analyzed various parts of this picture.

#1
Conclusion:

A. the day is Tuesday the 14th (if the calendar has been moved to the correct day)

B. it is early in the year

C. It may be 1972 or 1978 (if we assume the month is March which is plausible but an assumption nonetheless)

Evidence:

A.
For Tuesday the 14th -- based on weeks starting on either Sunday or Monday, the fact that every 7 days the numbers change colors (either green surrounded by yellow or vice versa) and the length of the letters underneath the number, the 18th is a Sunday. Sunday. Monday and Tuesday are all the same length and Wednesday is longer and that seems to be what the calendar shows. With the weeks set off by color and the length of the letters in the days of the week this seems to be the most likely conclusion.

B.
For it being early in the year -- I can clearly see 7 additional colored ribbons behind the green one. There may be more but I can only see 7. That would make it somewhere between Jan and May.

Additionally we see winter gloves on the suitcase which suggests it is still cold out.

C.
We have guessed March because the ribbon is green but that is speculation. Assuming it is March for a minute and it is Tuesday the 14th, then the year would be either 1972 or 1978.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#2
Conclusion: Either she or Alcala have traveled recently.

Evidence this is almost surely a bag claim tag but could be from any form of transportation. [see tag in above pic with gloves]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#3
Hypothesis: She may be a flight attendant.

Possible evidence: The sort of upright luggage her gloves are resting on [see full pic earlier in thread] was not common at the time. That type of bag used to be thought of as a flight crew bag. Most people had regular suitcases like this:

The drawstring bag on the floor looks like something you might get from an airline or hotel. The last two letters on the bag look like "es" or "as" Was looking to match it to a hotel or airline but didn't have much luck.

Also, for what it is worth, there may also be luggage to her left but it is hard to tell.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#4
Hypothesis: She is an adult.

Possible evidence:
-She is smoking
-There is what looks to be a mixed drink next to her
-The gloves are the gloves of an adult
-The luggage does not look like the luggage of a child
-Her posture in this chair seems self assured and more adult like (legs crossed and arm position).

She could still be a child of course.
[for picture evidence: see calendar pic where drink is evident; large pic for smoking, luggage and posture; gloves pic above]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's all I have for now. Whew!

Good work!
I enhanced the photo with different lighting (white bag) and it appears to me the letters at bottom are EAST. trying to get my software loaded in another pc to post when I have time.

 

[Imbackon]

Sorry, but I would bet my sweet bippy, this is the same girl.

 

[carbuff]

it's bernstein. please look here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Leonard-Bernste...ewItemQQptZMusic_on_Vinyl?hash=item518c77fb7a

Oh, good, you found it!

VERY odd record to have along with the other stuff. Of course he might have had more eclectic tastes than is apparent from this small sample...

 

[carbuff]

I'd say these are two different girls. The topless girl has a larger nose than the 'flight attendant' girl (just calling her that for convenience sake), the topless girl looks like she has more meat on her bones than the flight attendant girl, and, the topless girl's hair is darker. I have the same color hair as the topless girl, and there's no way my hair would look as blonde as the flight attendant girl's, no matter what kind of light I was photographed in. The flight attendant girl is way, way blonder. Tow-headed, I'd call her. While the topless girl has dirty blonde hair.

Then again, it could also be the same girl but the photos were taken a couple years apart, so her hair darkened, she gained a bit of weight, etc.

I agree. Topless girl's chin is also slightly squarer. Her forehead is a bit higher and flatter, not quite so round.

 

[Mensch]

Sorry, but I would bet my sweet bippy, this is the same girl.

Imbackon, I have to agree with you. Lighting can make all the difference but there are characteristics in these photos that are the same.
I have put a blue line to mark them here. Notice how her hair in three photos, takes a left angle in the part and naturally lays over other front hair on the right side? I am not sure if I am explaining this correctly. Now look at the shape below her bottom lip. There is aa squared appearance that does not change with expression because it is part of her identity. Also notice the three photos show her with a short distance between bottom lip and bottom of chin. These characteristics show in all photos. The nude photo chin appears more square because of the angle down. Look at your own chin in the mirror to see what I mean.
Trying to fix software to post marked photos.

Also important is that in all photos, given consideration for lighting, this person appears to have naturally blonde hair.

 

[Cymro]

Based on the cold weather and Wednesday 14th, you're left with three options:

1. January 1970;
2. October 1970;
3. April 1971.

I wouldn't go for the late 70s because Alcala had been in prison by then - would he have kept his record collection from NY? - and well, the groovy kids weren't listening to Surrealistic Pillow any more so would he have bought it again or had it so prominently on display?

I'm not sure that the luggage would necessarily be the shape for aircrew - the suitcase looks to be about the same length as the arm of the chair, which would be too wide to roll along behind a FA. I'd say it's a conventional shape.

There's absolutely nothing on Doe that matches the time frame in New York.

 

[Billylee]

it's bernstein. please look here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Leonard-Bernste...ewItemQQptZMusic_on_Vinyl?hash=item518c77fb7a

By golly I think you may be right! It still doesn't quite look the same to me, but I think it might just be the angle we're looking at that album. What looks like a cigarette, must be a reflection of light. And his nose looks much more straight in the Alcala photo. And the hand looks narrower, but the hairstyle and cover look right on. Any idea what year this album is from? I tried to find it and got an entirely different 3-set album with a totally different picture. Thanks for finding that one!

 

[Misfitdolly]

Good work!
I enhanced the photo with different lighting (white bag) and it appears to me the letters at bottom are EAST. trying to get my software loaded in another pc to post when I have time.

There is a seam on the bag in between the S and the T, I think the S ends a word on one side of the bag and the T begins a word on the other side of the bag. I was thinking the ending of the word was ERS

 

[Pink Panther]

Sorry, but I would bet my sweet bippy, this is the same girl.

Me too!

 

[Billylee]

Based on the cold weather and Wednesday 14th, you're left with three options:

1. January 1970;
2. October 1970;
3. April 1971.

I wouldn't go for the late 70s because Alcala had been in prison by then - would he have kept his record collection from NY? - and well, the groovy kids weren't listening to Surrealistic Pillow any more so would he have bought it again or had it so prominently on display?

I'm not sure that the luggage would necessarily be the shape for aircrew - the suitcase looks to be about the same length as the arm of the chair, which would be too wide to roll along behind a FA. I'd say it's a conventional shape.

There's absolutely nothing on Doe that matches the time frame in New York.

Hey, I think we're doing a darn good job everybody of narrowing down this picture! January 70 makes really good sense so far. I believe the latest record album we were able to see was 1969 Green River, correct? Now the only other thing is it could be 1977 when he was back there (though I agree with what you're saying about the music selection) and if it were 1977, then December 14, was the only Wednesday I saw. Also cold of course. Does anyone see anything in thee pictures that didn't exist until after 1970? The only thing that bothers so far is the material her green pantsuit is made of, I know I was wearing that same type of material in the late 70's, doesn't mean it wasn't around in 1970, I just don't remember it being around then.

 

[Indianagirl]

There is a seam on the bag in between the S and the T, I think the S ends a word on one side of the bag and the T begins a word on the other side of the bag. I was thinking the ending of the word was ERS

I had the same impression as well. Only I thought the last 3 letters could be EFS, EPS or ERS. Also, a few letters before that appears to read as "NI". On the T side of the bag, it looks like there is the top of some kind of logo.

I read through what seemed like all possible airline logos from the 60s and 70s available online and couldn't find anything that looks similar or matches the order of the lettering.

 

[Billylee]

On another note, the stewardess thing....if I'm not mistaken there used to be a height limitation back in 60's 70's that all stewardesses had to be of a certain height, maybe like 5'6" or something. Does anyone remember that stipulation? I think it may have been lifted by a certain year as discriminatory? Anyway, this girl looks very petite to me. JMO