Victim: Dr. Teresa Ann Grace Sievers

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If the foreclosure did not happen, it could be they got the money to catch up on the debt.
 
wondering25 said:
The previous poster(SeesSeas) wrote a long explanation about debt to earnings ratio etc. The number of 250k per year was quoted as what a physician in a similar practice would make. Quite frankly, that isnt a lot of money.. 2 professionals ( husband and wife both working in their chosen fields) could easily make 250k a year. That amount of money would not sustain nannys, chefs, mortgage payments, student loans, private health insurance and private tutors. At least not where I live. It appears she had several employees she had to pay and a husband who essentially was not making 10 cents on his own.

IMO, her lifestyle was extravagant for someone making 250k ( if that is the number we want to use). She would also have malpractice insurance, rent on her office to pay, car payments, and who knows what else. i was taught to never count anyone else's money. You just dont know what people really have.. IMO, there was probably substantial debt there. Wasnt the home just refinanced? MOO

Anything i write is just my opinion.
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A key phrase in my explanation is this “full-time practice generated about $500,000 annual gross income for FEES, like initial consults, follow-up visits, physicals, and other tests. This does not include supplement sales. The annual salary of the physician was $250,000+.“

The “malpractice insurance, rent on her office to pay, car payments, and who knows what else [employee salaries]“ would have been paid out of the “$500,000 annual gross income “, leaving $250,000+ as the ‘net profit’ per se, which would be the physician’s salary.

The amounts I provided were conservative (not wanting too many heads spinning), since a few of my specialty docs had $1,000,000 annual gross income, and took $500,000+ in salary and profit distributions.

Re: “i was taught to never count anyone else's money.“ - - Well, I was PAID to count other’s money!
 
SeesSeas said:
Thank you for the debt explanation. Yes, their combined debt could have reached, or exceeded, $1,000,000.

My opinion about the debt is that most of it would have occurred even if TS married someone different than MS, or if TS was single. I think Dr Sievers was smart, savvy, confident, competent, and definitely not naïve. From all that I can tell, the Sievers lived quite modestly.

Prior to the move to Bonita Springs and starting her Estero medical practice in 2006, she practiced as an internist at a busy medical practice in St Petersburg for about 7 years. She probably saved a lot of money during that time, anticipating realizing her dream of her own practice of Integrative Medicine.

There was substantial gain on the sale of St Petersburg real estate in August 2006. Also, there was a modest gain on the sale of Gulfport real estate in February 2006. This probably helped provide some of the funding for her new medical practice in Estero.

My general view of the debt dilemma is based primarily on my 30+ years as a financial accountant for numerous physician medical practices in Florida. In those medical practices, most of the M.D.’s were 10 to 15 years out of medical school. Most came from modest middle-class families. For a few of those physicians, I also managed their personal finances, including reconciling their investments and bank accounts. Not one of these physicians ever struggled with debt. All of them had a healthy debt-to-income ratio. There was abundant revenue. Most paid off their student loans within 10 years of residency; some stretched the loan out to 20 years. Savings was always substantial. Most are married and sometimes the spouse worked, but usually not. Most have children, along with a nanny, private school, costly extracurricular activities, housekeeper and sometimes a chef. Many have lakefront homes with market value of $1,000,000+. Some have beachfront homes with market value of $2,000,000+. All the docs I worked with have in-ground pools and spas, most homes are 10,000+ sq ft; some homes have elevators; two of the homes even have a movie theatre and one has a bomb shelter. Most have vacation homes in other states. All drive high-end cars, except one doc drove an older car and wore frumpy clothes, but that was more his personality than a reflection of his earnings or wealth. Most take exotic vacations a couple of times each year.

DrTeresaSievers.com FEE schedule reflects her value. There has been mention that she had a full patient load for the approximate 26 hours per week the office was open. Of the medical practitioners I was familiar with, their full-time practice generated about $500,000 annual gross income for FEES, like initial consults, follow-up visits, physicals, and other tests. This does not include supplement sales. The annual salary of the physician was $250,000+. This was generally achieved within the third year of practice, at which time the business usually had more assets than liabilities.

I’m not seeing excess materialism or greed in the Sievers' lifestyle. And it seems there would have been enough income to adequately offset debt. JMO
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You're right they lived in a modest home, no airplanes, big boats, or fancy toys. But everything is relative. I've been a pharma rep for forever. And while concierge/alternative integrative/boutique (whatever you want to call Teresa's practice because it was kind of a blend) medicine is typically quite lucrative, Teresa's practice lacked some components that would have generated really great income. The whole bio-identical HRT business is a great source of revenue for the local compounding pharmacy but not necessarily for someone like Teresa (unless she or MS were receiving some kind of kickback from the local pharmacy). She wasn't an OB/GYN so she wasn't making money from hysterectomies or vaginal rejuvenations. The flip is she also wasn't being paid peanuts by managed care for a tubal. I have to assume she was making good money but not great money.

My hinky meter has been going off since this story first hit the papers. I've called on thousands of practices and thousands of docs. I've seen and heard it all. Docs that are in debt up to their eyeballs because of bad spending habits, bad investments or because they are supporting 3 ex-wives. I've called on crazy docs, fabulous alternative medicine docs, total quacks, perverts, pigs, incredible surgeons, and some of the most compassionate docs on the planet. And there's just a lot of somethings about this practice that raises the hair on my back.

It may sound sexist but it's not unusual for a male doctor's wife to work in the office in some capacity, office manager, nurse whatever. But it's really unusual for a female doctor's husband to act as her office manager (and it's something that the local medical community would have gossiped and joked about). I've only called on two female docs where the husband acted as the office manager. One doc had an addiction issue and her spouse was basically around to keep her from using. The other guy was a total loser and couldn't keep a job. Appointing him as office manager was an attempt to keep up appearances but everyone knew the deal.

I'm guessing Teresa's staff knew the score. Didn't her nurse bail immediately? Her nurse has probably been an invaluable source for LE. A good nurse knows her doctor better than anyone else in the practice including the other docs and office manager.
 
Thanks SeesSeas, It's nice to know with the correct financial advice that she could have been right on track. I hope the money handling was in the correct, trustworthy hands and her plan for success, and I'm sure she had one, was not being sabotaged.
 
Oh and one more point. There's one reason your family doctor now offers Botox or sells vitamins, makeup, tea, whatever in the waiting room and it's money. It's not for your convenience.

There is a great divide amongst docs on this very issue. Many wouldn't consider it for a variety of reasons others simply have no choice but to offer additional services/products to keep the lights on.

Teresa's practice was a one doc office and she saw a minimal amount of patients. I can only assume that selling vitamins wasn't bringing in the profit she thought or was told it would.
 
FightTheOstrich said:
You're right they lived in a modest home, no airplanes, big boats, or fancy toys. But everything is relative. I've been a pharma rep for forever. And while concierge/alternative integrative/boutique (whatever you want to call Teresa's practice because it was kind of a blend) medicine is typically quite lucrative, Teresa's practice lacked some components that would have generated really great income. The whole bio-identical HRT business is a great source of revenue for the local compounding pharmacy but not necessarily for someone like Teresa (unless she or MS were receiving some kind of kickback from the local pharmacy). She wasn't an OB/GYN so she wasn't making money from hysterectomies or vaginal rejuvenations. The flip is she also wasn't being paid peanuts by managed care for a tubal. I have to assume she was making good money but not great money.

My hinky meter has been going off since this story first hit the papers. I've called on thousands of practices and thousands of docs. I've seen and heard it all. Docs that are in debt up to their eyeballs because of bad spending habits, bad investments or because they are supporting 3 ex-wives. I've called on crazy docs, fabulous alternative medicine docs, total quacks, perverts, pigs, incredible surgeons, and some of the most compassionate docs on the planet. And there's just a lot of somethings about this practice that raises the hair on my back.

It may sound sexist but it's not unusual for a male doctor's wife to work in the office in some capacity, office manager, nurse whatever. But it's really unusual for a female doctor's husband to act as her office manager (and it's something that the local medical community would have gossiped and joked about). I've only called on two female docs where the husband acted as the office manger. One doc had an addiction issue and her spouse was basically around to keep her from using. The other guy was a total loser and couldn't keep a job. Appointing him as office manager was an attempt to keep up appearances but everyone knew the deal.

I'm guessing Teresa's staff knew the score. Didn't her nurse bail immediately? Her nurse has probably been an invaluable source for LE. A good nurse knows her doctor better than anyone else in the practice including the other docs and office manager.
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I chuckled while reading your post!
I can definitely relate. I’ve met some odd docs, too. I refused to work with the strange ones, or I quit working with them as soon as I was enlightened about their arrogance or weirdness. My main referral source was a CPA firm and they fairly quickly got accustomed to the style of client I would accept. But, throughout my career, I never encountered debt management issues with any of the physicians I worked with. There were even a couple of cases of embezzling, but the doc was earning so much $$$, that a missing $100,000 per year wasn’t even noticed until I came on the scene and conducted data analysis and discovered theft.
 
OC Sunshine said:
Thanks SeesSeas, It's nice to know with the correct financial advice that she could have been right on track. I hope the money handling was in the correct, trustworthy hands and her plan for success, and I'm sure she had one, was not being sabotaged.
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Because TS was smart, I imagine the business had a financial advisor and tax accountant. On a quarterly and/or annual basis, the finances of the business would be reviewed, and advice for future success would be provided. Generally, those aspects of the business aren’t left entirely to an ‘office manager’, even if the office manager is the spouse.
 
Wyle_E_Coyote said:
http://www.manta.com/c/mr57qjb/restorative-health-healing

Estimated revenue less than 500k.

Not that these kinds of sites are necessarily accurate, but throwing it out there...

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk
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That data appears to be from an annual census, which is a self-reported, non-verified report.
http://www.census.gov/eos/www/naics/

At the link http://www.manta.com/c/mr57qjb/restorative-health-healing , the NAICS Code 621999 appears to be inaccurate for TS’s medical practice.

Most physicians use NAICS Code 62111 when completing this census.
http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/sssd/naics/naicsrch?code=62111&search=2012
 
SeesSeas said:
Because TS was smart, I imagine the business had a financial advisor and tax accountant. On a quarterly and/or annual basis, the finances of the business would be reviewed, and advice for future success would be provided. Generally, those aspects of the business aren’t left entirely to an ‘office manager’, even if the office manager is the spouse.
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She may have. But a lot of doctors are not good businessmen. And sometimes they trust the wrong people. I think it's possible that she delegated these responsibilities to MS. And that perhaps he had an inflated ego and thought he could handle it or had something to hide.
 
FightTheOstrich said:
You're right they lived in a modest home, no airplanes, big boats, or fancy toys. But everything is relative. I've been a pharma rep for forever. And while concierge/alternative integrative/boutique (whatever you want to call Teresa's practice because it was kind of a blend) medicine is typically quite lucrative, Teresa's practice lacked some components that would have generated really great income. The whole bio-identical HRT business is a great source of revenue for the local compounding pharmacy but not necessarily for someone like Teresa (unless she or MS were receiving some kind of kickback from the local pharmacy). She wasn't an OB/GYN so she wasn't making money from hysterectomies or vaginal rejuvenations. The flip is she also wasn't being paid peanuts by managed care for a tubal. I have to assume she was making good money but not great money.
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FightTheOstrich, what on earth is a vaginal rejuvenation?
 
KateB said:
Has this ever been posted?
This might be helpful for those working on Dr. Sievers' professional timeline.
Dr. Sievers' LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/teresa-sievers-md-msms-faarm-abihm/3b/b82/568
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wow.. a lot of mistakes, words missing etc throughout this summary at linked in. For someone who reportedly paid so much attention to detail, it sure was lacking here. Honestly, if I read that, i would roll on by. I don't care who put it online.. it wasnt even proofread for clarity.

Anything i write is just my opinion..
 
wondering25 said:
wow.. a lot of mistakes, words missing etc throughout this summary at linked in. For someone who reportedly paid so much attention to detail, it sure was lacking here. Honestly, if I read that, i would roll on by. I don't care who put it online.. it wasnt even proofread for clarity.

Anything i write is just my opinion..
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I think MS wrote it. Moo.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
Wyle_E_Coyote said:
I think MS wrote it. Moo.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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It was a sloppily written resume. She is responsible for anything put out under her name. I don't care if he wrote it or she wrote it or an ad agency wrote it.. IMO only, this points to a larger issue of benign neglect. What else wasn't important enough for her to focus on? Finances, interpersonal relationships? In contrast her fee schedule ( available on her website) was precise, and to the point and dollar. Many, many people use linked in.. it is your own personal referral service and a place where people looking for someone just like you can find you. JMO

Let's pretend that MS wrote this. Why did she fail to correct it? Was she afraid of him? I am really surprised this was allowed to stand uncorrected. IMO, the wheels were coming off the wagon for awhile. JMO

Anything i write is just my opinion.
 
Wyle_E_Coyote said:
I think MS wrote it. Moo.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Me too! Which is frightening if he was homeschooling the girls and running the practice. Between her LinkedIn profile and the fee schedule someone created on the office website, I'm surprised she had patients. Who wants to see doctor that doesn't pay attention to details?
 
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