Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #7

[otto]

I would agree. Although, I wouldn't agree she put the blood there, if it was a type of animal blood, that she most certaintly, couldn't acquire easily.

The blood was not in the car when she left the house in the morning, so either she put it there as part of a well planned suicide, or she didn't put it there and this was not a suicide.

Upthread there's a comment protesting that the blood is still under discussion, as though is it something that can be set aside in the debate of murder or suicide. Rather, the blood is crucial in understanding whether it was murder or suicide.

Naturally, some may ask how we can be certain that the blood was not in the car in the morning. The answer to that is simple. Clearly it was visible, we know it was not completely dry, so it's safe to assume that any rational person who gets in the car in the morning to go to work is going to be alarmed and call police if there's a pool of blood in the car.

 

[ANZAC]

As this case progresses, I think a lot of people, including myself are more accepting of suicide as the manner of death but the animal blood is just so strange. Also, someone posted a link to the Dave Rose's FB page (he is a Q13 reporter) where he stated very casually that the lab is also processing a zip tie found at the scene. Why hasn't that been mentioned in MSM? It seems potentially important and conflicts with LE's statement that there is no evidence to suggest CD was restrained in any way.

Maybe she put the zip tie around her own neck to hold the bag? Or maybe it was a 3" zip tie that was in her pocket? We don't really know unless LE says more and I would not assume the zip tie was related to either suicide or homicide.

I first became interested in this case because I believed there might be a killer on the loose and I too meet a carpool about 3 miles away from the MLT park and ride.

If this was a homicide, it seems less likely to be a crime of opportunity seeing as there are many things that would require some planning (including leaving no evidence of violence).

People should just be aware of their surroundings and be ready to defend themselves, no matter what the outcome of this case is. There are many many bad people in this world.

 

[ANZAC]

The blood was not in the car when she left the house in the morning,

Did stryker or someone say that?

 

[otto]

Did stryker or someone say that?

I rely on common sense from time to time. Under what circumstances does someone get into the car to go to work on a Monday morning, see a wet pool of blood on the passenger floor board of the car, and simply ignore it?

Under what circumstances does blood smear 8-9 hours after it was spilled?

 

[1&2&3]

Following up on Otto's thought above^^^^, ,what was she seen carrying out of her house on the security cameras?

Did she carry a laptop back and forth daily to work? If so, was the tote large enough to put a lunch in or put a container of animal blood in? Or did she carry a lunch tote to work with her?

IF she had planned this suicide before leaving the house, why would she take her normal laptop or lunch tote? I guess she would take them to make it look like a normal morning. Were these two things found? So the big question is, how did she get the animal blood out of her house IF we think she supplied it? Any ideas?

 

[ANZAC]

Also for ANZAC: I think people start wanting for FBI to get involved, when things become weird with many technicalities, even if they can't or have no reason too, but they would get involved in something involving a corrupt police investigation?

Police corruption usually goes to another agency (like another county, city or the state police) if it isn't handled by some separate internal dept or oversight board. There's no indication of anything like that here that I can see.

 

[ANZAC]

I rely on common sense from time to time. Under what circumstances does someone get into the car to go to work on a Monday morning, see a wet pool of blood on the passenger floor board of the car, and simply ignore it?

Well you said that the blood was not there when she left the house, and we don't know that for a fact.

I would agree in the homicide scenario, that if she got in the car and there was blood there, she'd be calling her husband or 911 ASAP. I agree that's common sense.

But there's nothing to prove she didn't put the blood there herself late the night before, or before she left for the P&R in the morning. If there's enough blood it will still smear or be tacky 8-9 hours later, depending on temp/airflow.

 

[otto]

Following up on Otto's thought above^^^^, ,what was she seen carrying out of her house on the security cameras?

Did she carry a laptop back and forth daily to work? If so, was the tote large enough to put a lunch in or put a container of animal blood in? Or did she carry a lunch tote to work with her?

IF she had planned this suicide before leaving the house, why would she take her normal laptop or lunch tote? I guess she would take them to make it look like a normal morning. Were these two things found? So the big question is, how did she get the animal blood out of her house IF we think she supplied it? Any ideas?

My guess is that data analysts who work in health care don't bring that data home on a laptop.

The animal blood is a big mystery. There's no dead animal in the car. Where did it come from? Who knows. What seems to make sense is that if it was suicide, the presence of animal blood in the car suggests the suicide was well planned. If it was not suicide, someone with a severe mental disturbance is responsible for Cheryl's death, as there's no normal explanation for putting animal blood in someone's vehicle prior to murdering the vehicle's owner.

 

[jemini]

There are so many odd pieces that don't fit. I still sense someone she knew did this. Be it a close relationship or acquaintance. I realize people that go through with their suicide plan may be under mental duress or even unplanned...still not convinced. Who would go to such lengths? We could say we're over thinking things or missing key facts. But really why a freezing cold creek?? Im going to keep restating what i can make sense of. She has access to guns, car, forests, ocean, lakes. It seems nonsensical having a car that she could drive there, but decided to walk to get in the right frame of mind?
Here's my list. Does it look like suicide or homicide?
Text message (not sure exactly what was sent and received )
Shutting off the cell
Locked car
Walked 1.5 miles
Razor blades in pocket?
Asphyxiation with plastic grocery type bag?
Drowning (frigid water)
Animal blood on passenger floorboard of car
Missing cell phone
Missing keys
Missing purse or wallet?
No suicide note or indicators.
A gentle soul ends her life in a harsh painful way IMO.

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[Sun009]

How the media and public latch onto cases is a bit of a mystery. I work things that I think should be front page news but then someone breaks an ankle and it is on the 6pm news. Some of it are the factors you mention: someone missing for a period, a lot of people looking for her, then no clear answer immediately she is found.
..

Yes, with the exception of missing person cases where they weren't found. I've got about 5 I've worked on that are unsolved/unfound (at least a couple of those on WS...). We had one I was absolutely certain was murder because of the behavior and body language of family/friends, but it turned out it to be suicide.

I think the public looks for the media to tell us things, and the media decides for us, and thats what we latch onto. The news channel, can go from telling us something of concern, then jump right into something with animal cuteness and the weather. It's just about news that might appeal to the masses. I don't think the news, even wants to talk about the news. And people go social media searching, so they can figure the details & humanize these missing folks. The news just might be lazy, if they start talking about a story, they might think they have to finish reporting on it, and they've moved on

I think some suicide investigations must be confusing, if people in that persons life, didn't genuine like that person. Not that they are happy this person is dead, just creates suspicion if they are obviously forcing themselves to say nice things, and it appears as not being genuine. That's where I can see how the body language might be off.

 

[otto]

Well you said that the blood was not there when she left the house, and we don't know that for a fact.

I would agree in the homicide scenario, that if she got in the car and there was blood there, she'd be calling her husband or 911 ASAP. I agree that's common sense.

But there's nothing to prove she didn't put the blood there herself late the night before, or before she left for the P&R in the morning. If there's enough blood it will still smear or be tacky 8-9 hours later, depending on temp/airflow.

Animal blood on the passenger floor boards of the car are not another bizarre coincidence unrelated to a murder. If she put the blood there late on Sunday night, it is still a well planned suicide.

 

[ANZAC]

Actually, in NM, local LE work with the FBI on all sorts of crimes, not just speacialized ones. OT

Right, my comments were more meant to be about this general area in WA. Very populated area, many agencies with many different skills, and they help each other. Sometimes cases come from the FBI (and they need local help) but very rarely would the FBI be pulled in here. (as I said, with the exceptions of child abductions etc)

I should have also mentioned FBI handle homicides on Indian reservations I think.

Also, part of the reason I think this would be too incredible as a murder is due to seeming lack of a suspect or a motive. For such an unusual set of circumstances to be a murder, I would expect a pretty obvious motive and/or suspect. Again jmo.

Indeed.

 

[eucalyptuz]

The cat breeder (*as yet unverified) mentioned up thread that the police came to see her and the look at the meat product she uses for cat food. She says she showed them "how it could leak". Why would the police bother with this process if they find the plausibility of the "blood" in the car to be unrelated to this possible source of "blood-like" material?
Trying hard not to whip a dead horse here, but it seems many are very prepared to exclude this possibility in their reasoning. I am a fence sitter, but I find that a day old wet patch of pet food 'liquid' still the most acceptable and logical explanation. (If Cheryl wanted more of a 'crime scene' a few more splashes of finger blood would do it. If a murderer wanted to perplex or had some ritual to play out, wouldn't they make more of a show of it than a puddle on dark carpeting?)

 

[ANZAC]

I think some suicide investigations must be confusing, if people in that persons life, didn't genuine like that person. Not that they are happy this person is dead, just creates suspicion if they are obviously forcing themselves to say nice things, and it appears as not being genuine. That's where I can see how the body language might be off.

There also can be a lot of guilt felt by friends and family, and that can contribute to withholding information. (this also true for accidental deaths)

 

[Lilibet]

There are so many odd pieces that don't fit. I still sense someone she knew did this. Be it a close relationship or acquaintance. I realize people that go through with their suicide plan may be under mental duress or even unplanned...still not convinced. Who would go to such lengths? We could say we're over thinking things or missing key facts. But really why a freezing cold creek?? Im going to keep restating what i can make sense of. She has access to guns, car, forests, ocean, lakes. It seems nonsensical having a car that she could drive there, but decided to walk to get in the right frame of mind?
Here's my list. Does it look like suicide or homicide?
Text message (not sure exactly what was sent and received )
Shutting off the cell
Locked car
Walked 1.5 miles
Razor blades in pocket?
Asphyxiation with plastic grocery type bag?
Drowning (frigid water)
Animal blood on passenger floorboard of car
Missing cell phone
Missing keys
Missing purse or wallet?
No suicide note or indicators.
A gentle soul ends her life in a harsh painful way IMO.

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BBM

You ask very good questions. I lean toward murder and I'm not convinced of suicide, but when you said
"A gentle soul ends her life in a harsh painful way"
it made me wonder if she could have been punishing herself for something she felt was deserving of a harsh, painful death. Or else, whoever killed her felt that way about her, since she was alive in the culvert. Either way, the question is "Why?"

 

[jemini]

The cat breeder (*as yet unverified) mentioned up thread that the police came to see her and the look at the meat product she uses for cat food. She says she showed them "how it could leak". Why would the police bother with this process if they find the plausibility of the "blood" in the car to be unrelated to this possible source of "blood-like" material?
Trying hard not to whip a dead horse here, but it seems many are very prepared to exclude this possibility in their reasoning. I am a fence sitter, but I find that a day old wet patch of pet food 'liquid' still the most acceptable and logical explanation. (If Cheryl wanted more of a 'crime scene' a few more splashes of finger blood would do it. If a murderer wanted to perplex or had some ritual to play out, wouldn't they make more of a show of it than a puddle on dark carpeting?)

I would accept suicide if mental health issue was revealed. From every source she was a smart gal. Smart gals would likely a. Not commit suicide b. Use the gun she owns (she's a hunter) . Murderers are sick and demented, nothing would shock or surprise me. They live in a whole other realm. Our brains can't decipher that madness....something like this case.

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[DanceCard]

From every source she was a smart gal. Smart gals would likely a. Not commit suicide

Smart people DO commit suicide.

 

[Lilibet]

I would accept suicide if mental health issue was revealed. From every source she was a smart gal. Smart gals would likely a. Not commit suicide b. Use the gun she owns (she's a hunter) . Murderers are sick and demented, nothing would shock or surprise me. They live in a whole other realm. Our brains can't decipher that madness....something like this case.

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BBM

I haven't accepted that Cheryl committed suicide, but smart gals absolutely do commit suicide if they are depressed. Intelligent, creative depressed people of either gender commit suicide. I have seen no evidence that Cheryl had a history of depression or an event in her life that would motivate her to end her life. Although one would think she would use a gun, just the ability to shoot a gun increases one's ability to commit suicide, according to the research discussed in this interesting article.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/curious/201405/why-do-people-kill-themselves-new-warning-signs

All that being said, I agree that there is a level of "madness" in the details we know that keeps bringing me back to murder for the time being. And it is practically impossible for a normal person to "decipher that madness" as you said. I'm currently following the trial of a former student of my husband and classmate of our daughter for the brutal murder of a priest...all so he could steal the priest's car to use to get home after being released from jail 60 miles away. Drugs certainly played a role and I can't wrap my mind around what happened...on so many levels. If Cheryl was murdered, it seems much more calculated and less impulsive, but equally depraved and equally difficult for a normal mind to decipher.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-murdered-in-church-rectory-Eureka-1-Jan-2014

 

[Eileen730]

Depression is a Silent Killer!
There does not have to a mental illness diagnosis to commit suicide?

 

[TTF14]

I rely on common sense from time to time. Under what circumstances does someone get into the car to go to work on a Monday morning, see a wet pool of blood on the passenger floor board of the car, and simply ignore it?

Under what circumstances does blood smear 8-9 hours after it was spilled?

It was somewhat dark when she left. If her floor boards were black/dark, it's highly likely she wouldn't have noticed it if it was, say, there from the night before when she brought home raw pet food. I'm still of the belief the blood is from that (and yeah, yeah, I know "blood" isn't supposed to be in that food yet LE is calling it "blood.")