Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #8

[otto]

Same guy. He wrote a book explaining how he will commit suicide.

Chapter 10, or page 273

https://reasonabledeath.wordpress.com/book/

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Thanks. If his body has not been found, where does the bit about thrashing around come from? It cannot be said that he committed suicide with a bag on his head and that he thrashed around after suffocating himself.

 

[krig101]

Thanks. If his body has not been found, where does the bit about thrashing around come from?

From his own research, he explains that the body will automatically thrash while during the bag method.....

(shudders) just so awful to think about let alone type....

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[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Have you ever come across cases where suicide victims used restraints on themselves? The reason I ask is because of the Rebecca Zahau case. LE determined that she gagged herself and bound her wrists and ankles with ropes before jumping off a balcony to hang herself, so that she wouldn't be tempted to cry for help or free herself. Is that something that you've ever seen, and is it possible that Cheryl brought zip ties for that purpose but decided against using them?

I'm inclined to think that LE tested a variety of things that they determined weren't related to the crime, including the zip ties, but the use of restraints in a possible suicide is something I've wondered about since LE determined it was proof of suicide in the Zahau case.

I've heard of a couple of suicides where the person chained/handcuffed themselves to a tree and threw the key away from them, out in the middle of a forest.

ETA Here's a hanging with hands tied

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2015/01/05/french-man-hanged-koh-tao-hands-tied-handled-suicide

ETA 2. And another

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1312491/Man-dead-Los-Angeles-airport-toilet-bag-head.html

ETA 3 Research article with discussion and example

http://www.indmedica.com/journals.p...=11&issueid=131&articleid=1738&action=article

And another

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1556-4029.12930/full




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[otto]

From his own research, he explains that the body will automatically thrash while during the bag method.....

(shudders) just so awful to think about let alone type....

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Does he provide a reference? I'm not inclined to take seriously the rambling of someone who appears to be mentally ill.

 

[Sparky]

Let's please stay on topic. This thread is for Cheryl.

Kegan has his own thread and has provided reading material explaining his actions. Please go there to discuss his case.

ETA: Kegan's thread

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...gan-Cochrane-MSU-student-Lansing-9-April-2016

:tyou:

 

[krig101]

Does he provide a reference? I'm not inclined to take seriously the rambling of someone who appears to be mentally ill.

There is a reference in the paragraph (Stone, Chapter 17)

From Bibliography:

Stone, Geo. Suicide and attempted Sucide: Methods and Consequences. New York, Carroll & Graf, 1999. Print.

For a moment reading this made me wonder if Cheryl did commit suicide. But only for a moment. For the most part, I still think she was murdered.....

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[jennapuppy]

I've heard of a couple of suicides where the person chained/handcuffed themselves to a tree and threw the key away from them, out in the middle of a forest.

ETA Here's a hanging with hands tied

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2015/01/05/french-man-hanged-koh-tao-hands-tied-handled-suicide

ETA 2. And another

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1312491/Man-dead-Los-Angeles-airport-toilet-bag-head.html

ETA 3 Research article with discussion and example

http://www.indmedica.com/journals.p...=11&issueid=131&articleid=1738&action=article

And another

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1556-4029.12930/full




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Thank you for these links. Apparently the use of restraints in suicides is not all that uncommon, after all. In fact, the 2nd link is the case of a man who committed suicide with a plastic bag over his head and his hands secured behind his back with zip ties. I thought the very idea seemed preposterous when I heard about the Rebecca Zahau case, but now I'm reconsidering it. JMO

 

[ANZAC]

Have you ever come across cases where suicide victims used restraints on themselves?

Only hanging, and hanging combined with other methods (poisons etc).

 

[ANZAC]

Second off, all of the folks you mentioned are part of the crime scene investigation unless you are writing of a particular subset of people in the police department, which I was not. Or maybe you were just thinking of a tv show, which I was not. Perhaps I should write out 'everyone at the scene or who came upon the scene at any time and who were watching, observing, collecting evidence of any sort or performing any and all sorts of searching or investigation for any reason whatsoever' to be more clear. I chose CSI - shoot me.

OK, it is a phrase and abbreviation not used in WA. As an umbrella to those activities we would say "evidence search" and "suspicious death investigation".
I suspect the jargon is more localized or maybe different from west to east coast.

Third, as I stated "if there was a zip tie associated with this crime" not "if there was a zip tie collected in the general area" which would exclude meaningless flotsam and road side trash.

In the general area can still include trash and stuff in the creek. Many times there's no way to know something is associated until they test it, even if it was lying next to the body.

"If there was" are the operative words as we are not sure that any zip tie was collected much less one connected to the crime. This is all a hypothet based on a post by a reporter which was later removed. We all know that there can be meaningless garbage around any crime scene, I wasn't writing about miscellaneous trash but about a specific zip tie in a specific situation.

This particular reporter has a good relationship with all the LE in the area and is not going to spoil it by making something up. Do I believe a zip tie was found? Yes. Was it associated with the death? Who knows.

 

[Terrace12]

I hope we hear news soon. I feel this is the "calm before the storm". I think LE knows much more then they are saying and I have nothing to back that up other then my own feelings. I just don't think she walked to that culvert and took her life. IMO she was taken and dumped like trash. Like her own Mother stated, there were so many other ways to end her life if she chose to do so.
Maybe Anzac can answer this... Is it abnormal for LE to NOT question homes within a block of of the culvert? I have friends who live right above the grassy area and they were not asked anything. They did not see or hear anything but I found it interesting they weren't questioned. Just curious and thank you in advance.

 

[ANZAC]

Maybe Anzac can answer this... Is it abnormal for LE to NOT question homes within a block of of the culvert?

During the search we might ask homeowners to check their back yards, sheds etc.

After the body is found -- I know the detectives sometimes look for security cameras or ask us to look for them, but who in the area they ask in their inquiries is beyond my experience.

 

[Dushi]

If a tie was found and if it relates to the case, why would someone cut it and then put the blade back in Cheryl's pocket?

 

[ANZAC]

If a tie was found and if it relates to the case, why would someone cut it and then put the blade back in Cheryl's pocket?

Why don't know that the tie was cut, or even tied.

 

[Dushi]

Why don't know that the tie was cut, or even tied.

I guess the only thing i have read is a post pointing to a facebook comment that has been taken down.
I think i will sit firmly on the fence about any twist tie or tie until more information is available
JMO

Its quite possible it was used to secure a plastic bag as one report stated secured loosely.

Is there something pointing to her hands being secured? I haven't been here all weekend and read a few posts about people wondering about marks etc.

 

[Dushi]

Also, in this FB post, was the tie referred to as a twist tie or zip tie?

 

[kdg411]

So David Rose of Q13 Fox made a post on March 21, then David RE-SHARED on his personal page, and added the comment about the zip tie in the comment section. The original David Rose of Q13 Fox is still there, but his re-share on his own page, with his comment of the zip tie seems to be gone now. He had made it on March 22nd, and I see no posts from him on that date anymore.

Also, in this FB post, was the tie referred to as a twist tie or zip tie?

See post above for reference.

 

[Eileen730]

It was a zip tie.
I asked him about it and he said it was.being tested. He also said he would tell us of he heard anything more about it.

 

[Yvettea]

The police must know much more about what happened based on the autopsy alone. Physiological changes occur when a body (or part of a body) is immersed in cold water.

Originally posted by Jen Darme
RSBM Cheryl walked into the culvert <snip>, in 2-3 feet of water (per police chief) that was probably less than 50F. That's the mean (average) temp of Lyon Creek per decades of watershed monitoring and it was February. She then voluntarily stood/sat in that water for a significant period of time

For instance if Cheryl had walked into the culvert her legs and feet would have become numb fairly quickly when the blood vessels constricted. If Cheryl had crawled/swam into the culvert with her body immersed the numbness would have been pervasive. If Cheryl had been lowered into the culvert (having been asphyxiated near death) barely breathing and drowned quickly, less evidence of numbness would be present. Whichever the case, on autopsy the evidence of constriction would be present and would appear differently in each scenario.

What have the police told Cheryl's family? They must have told them there was evidence of prolonged exposure to cold water to illicit this response,

&#8220;It is inconceivable that Cheryl would take meat out of the freezer for dinner, text the driver of her carpool,&#8221; Peterson wrote, &#8220;walk 1.5 miles, crawl through brambles and mud, put a plastic bag over her head and lie face down in a cold shallow creek to end her life.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...y-no-evidence-cheryl-deboer-death-a-homicide/

Have the police said more than there is no evidence of homicidal violence, something that would allow the family to accept this?

 

[roro206]

Off topic. anyone know if there is a thread on missing Renton woman - Ingrid Lyne?

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[tlcya]

Seems a bit premature for speculation that the man arrested in the Ingrid Rousaville Lyne case is connected to Cheryl's.

Please keep discussion of that case here for now http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ounsaville-Lyne-40-Seattle-8-April-2016/page5

thanks,

tlcya