WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #3

[Gardener1850]

OK, thanks. But I have more faith in the truthfulness of what was reported at the time, rather then what is said in a made for TV re-creation decades later. With all due respect that scenario makes no sense. If they knew he jumped before Portland, then why did they continue flying to Reno with the stairway down, rather then just making an emergency landing in Portland? That would be an incredibly stupid thing to do. It’s just not believable in my opinion.

Well part 2 had the actual interview with the pilot and I wrote his exact quote about radioing the tower. He also says immediately after that they thought he jumped but they were not sure he jumped. We're forgetting Cooper had threatened them with a bomb (they had no way of knowing if it was real or not). They were probably terrified to check in case he had not jumped. They did not want to do anything contrary to his instructions. If he was still on the plane and they sent Tina to check she would be in danger, IMO. Plus at that time the pilots thought the air pressure would pull someone out the back of the plane. In the interview the pilot relates telling Tina she needs to get some rope and tie herself to one of the seats before opening the rear door. DB Cooper heard them on the phone talking about sending rope from the cockpit and he said angrily "no one else is coming back here". Then the pilot told Tina to take cords from an extra parachute to tie around her waist with a pillow to keep her from being sucked out when she opened the rear door. In the end, DB did not let her tie herself to the plane--he sent her to the cockpit instead and he opened the stairs himself.

These details are why they think Cooper had to be someone who knew about the plane being able to open it's aft stairs in flight without endangering the cabin. Even the pilots of the plane did not know that was possible or safe. That model plane was being used in secret government missions overseas to drop supplies out the aft stairs. They think Cooper either knew about the missions or was an employee of the airplane manufacturer that did test runs of opening the aft doors in flight. He also knew things like what speed and ground height he needed them to fly at to make a jump. This was pre-internet and he couldn't just go to a library to learn those things.

 

[Gardener1850]

The pressure wave was caused by the aft door bouncing up nearly closing then popping back open, like a diving board springing. The FBI recreated this by tossing something of similar weight off the aft door during flight. It seems this is most likely when he jumped. We don't know how high he was when he pulled the chute since the trailing jets never saw a chute. If he fail where they predicted, then I suspect that area was well searched. I just wonder why that crew sat there quietly as they flew all the way to Reno. The "stewardess" seemed to have some rapport with him, and seems she could have looked back there after that pressure wave. Might have made a big difference if they landed in Portland, but maybe not.

The only thing I like about the History Channel special was the interviews with the co pilot and the flight attendant, as well as the boy and father who found the money. Seems the rest was a waste of time. I believe they are being truthful with their recollections all these years later. Not sure it added anything to what we know, but it good to have them on the public record. I agree, someone should have peeked to see if he were still back there, and then landed in Portland. They would have been on the ground in minutes rather than hours.

We're forgetting he had threatened them with a bomb. It's easy for us to say after the fact that they should have checked or they should have landed elsewhere but they were probably terrified. That and they thought the air pressure from opening the door would suck them out the back. They probably felt staying in the cockpit and continuing to Reno was the safest option at the time. They complied with his demands and got out of the situation alive. DB Cooper is the only hijacker in US history to never be caught. Everyone probably figured they would catch him. Getting the crew to safety was the main goal of the pilot, IMO. We can't blame him for not risking the lives of his coworkers to check to see when the guy jumped. MOO.

 

[kemo]

The "official" FBI theory prior to the money being found at Tena Bar was that DB jumped just south of Lake Merlyn at about 8:13 based on the pilot's interpretation of what he felt and subsequent testing of it would "feel like" to the pilot if a 200 lbs "object" left the stairway. Obviously they could never be absolutely positive.

Once the money was found and Prof Palmer submitted his report, ( showing that the money must have arrived there after 1974) the "official" theory became that the aircraft had drifted off course somewhat to the east and DB landed and died somewhere in the Washougal River watershed (and the money gradually drifted downstream to the Columbia and Tena Bar). They still appear to stick to the 8:13 jump time. This theory seems to be debunked by the fact that the rubber bands would not have held together well enough to hold the bundles together that long.

An alternate theory would be that the Aircraft remained on the V32 route but the jump time was perhaps at 8:18 and DB landed in the Columbia about 5 miles upstream from Tena Bar. This still doesn't solve the problem of the failure of the pilot to feel the stairway "bounce" at that time, the money arriving on top of the layer of clay from the 1974 dredging, the rubber bands holding the bundles together, and the three bundles arriving together while no others were anyway near.

There is an argument that Prof Palmer was wrong and the clay found below the money did not come from the 1974 dredging and the money actually arrived there soon after Nov 1971. I know nothing about the subject but I am not aware that anyone with the level of expertise of Palmer as addressed the issue. Any attempt to challenge Prof Palmer's finding are going to be complicated by the fact that erosion that has occurred since 1980 has washed away the layer of clay he felt came from the 1974 dredging. Prof Palmer is also deceased.

Assuming Palmer was wrong, it is possible that the money arrived on Tena Bar on or shortly after Nov 24 1971 and was subsequently buried and later exposed my changes to the beach.

 

[KaaBoom]

The only thing I like about the History Channel special was the interviews with the co pilot and the flight attendant, as well as the boy and father who found the money. Seems the rest was a waste of time. I believe they are being truthful with their recollections all these years later. Not sure it added anything to what we know, but it good to have them on the public record. I agree, someone should have peeked to see if he were still back there, and then landed in Portland. They would have been on the ground in minutes rather than hours.

Correct me if I’m wrong. I haven’t owned a TV in the last 15 years, but I have seen a few shows from the History Channel. It seems to me that from what little I have seen of the History Channel, it’s primarily a reality based entertainment channel. I have never seen anything on there that I think would be a legitimate documentary or anything. Am I wrong? Does the History Channel have credibility for doing documentaries? If it does, I haven’t seen any of them.

 

[KaaBoom]

The "official" FBI theory prior to the money being found at Tena Bar was that DB jumped just south of Lake Merlyn at about 8:13 based on the pilot's interpretation of what he felt and subsequent testing of it would "feel like" to the pilot if a 200 lbs "object" left the stairway. Obviously they could never be absolutely positive.

Once the money was found and Prof Palmer submitted his report, ( showing that the money must have arrived there after 1974) the "official" theory became that the aircraft had drifted off course somewhat to the east and DB landed and died somewhere in the Washougal River watershed (and the money gradually drifted downstream to the Columbia and Tena Bar). They still appear to stick to the 8:13 jump time. This theory seems to be debunked by the fact that the rubber bands would not have held together well enough to hold the bundles together that long.

An alternate theory would be that the Aircraft remained on the V32 route but the jump time was perhaps at 8:18 and DB landed in the Columbia about 5 miles upstream from Tena Bar. This still doesn't solve the problem of the failure of the pilot to feel the stairway "bounce" at that time, the money arriving on top of the layer of clay from the 1974 dredging, the rubber bands holding the bundles together, and the three bundles arriving together while no others were anyway near.

There is an argument that Prof Palmer was wrong and the clay found below the money did not come from the 1974 dredging and the money actually arrived there soon after Nov 1971. I know nothing about the subject but I am not aware that anyone with the level of expertise of Palmer as addressed the issue. Any attempt to challenge Prof Palmer's finding are going to be complicated by the fact that erosion that has occurred since 1980 has washed away the layer of clay he felt came from the 1974 dredging. Prof Palmer is also deceased.

Assuming Palmer was wrong, it is possible that the money arrived on Tena Bar on or shortly after Nov 24 1971 and was subsequently buried and later exposed my changes to the beach.

Another theory that I have seen made on another forum, is that Cooper landed in the Columbia River upstream from Tena Bar. His body drifted downstream, the money bag became separated from his body and eventually ended up on the bottom of the river. Then the dredging operation in 1974 dredged the bag up, and it broke open in the vicinity of Tena Bar. Most of the money came apart and drifted away, while the three bundles that clung together ended up buried in the silt on Tena Bar.

 

[Tulessa]

Correct me if I’m wrong. I haven’t owned a TV in the last 15 years, but I have seen a few shows from the History Channel. It seems to me that from what little I have seen of the History Channel, it’s primarily a reality based entertainment channel. I have never seen anything on there that I think would be a legitimate documentary or anything. Am I wrong? Does the History Channel have credibility for doing documentaries? If it does, I haven’t seen any of them.

KaaBoom, lot's of goodies on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=db+cooper

 

[KaaBoom]

KaaBoom, lot's of goodies on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=db+cooper

Thanks, but most of those results are not even from the History Channel.

There is an important quote though in the first link from the History Channel. "Sir, be advised our passenger took leave of us somewhere between here and Seattle”. That was while they were searching the plane in Reno.

This backs up my contention that the crew had no idea where Cooper jumped. I don’t care what they say after the fact. That is irrelevant. When they arrived in Reno, they had no clue where he jumped. Until then, they didn’t even know if he had jumped. He could have jumped anywhere between Seattle and Reno. After the ransom money was found, I think it is reasonable to conclude that he jumped at the Columbia River. Any other locations that he might have jumped at are just guess work, and not backed up by any evidence.

 

[LinasK]

I can't buy it's Rackstraw because the FBI cleared him--they had his fingerprints and DNA to compare tot he evidence. That and the flight attendant being certain it wasn't him throws Rackstraw out for me.

Yes, but the DNA samples were contaminated (bad evidence collection back then), and eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable, especially after so many years. That's why this case may never be solved. If the FBI had something solidly exculpatory for him, they should have disclosed it,IMO.

 

[gregjrichards]

Filmmaker sues FBI to prove Rackstraw is D.B Cooper

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...B-Cooper-Filmmaker-sues-FBI-prove-theory.html

 

[NDMagoo]

Filmmaker sues FBI to prove Rackstraw is D.B Cooper

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...B-Cooper-Filmmaker-sues-FBI-prove-theory.html

Wow, there's some new info in that article that wasn't in the film, which kind of shoots down one their main arguments. In the documentary, they continually harp on the question of why the FBI would try so hard and set up a large sting operation to capture this guy, if they really only thought he wrote a few bad checks. Well, the article says Rackstraw was actually under investigation for his step-dad's murder (along with the checks), when he was wanted in the early '70s. The FBI apparently cleared him of that charge, but this explains why they would have gone after him so hard.

 

[Snoopster]

I thought I would be late to post this, but perhaps I missed it elsewhere???

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/online-magazine-to-open-up-fbi-files-on-the-db-cooper-skyjacking-case/2016/11/23/f7f98d56-b1b3-11e6-8616-52b15787add0_story.html

Online magazine to open up FBI files on the ‘D.B. Cooper’ skyjacking case

On Thanksgiving Day, a website founded by the author of the most authoritative book on Cooper is releasing hundreds of FBI investigative documents related to the case. Geoffrey Gray, author of “Skyjack” and founder of the online magazine True Ink, will publish dozens of documents showing the FBI’s interviews with the passengers and crew of the flight, and its assessment of the physical evidence. The magazine will release a second group of documents in a couple of weeks and a third and final release before the end of the year. By the end of 2016, True Ink will have disseminated hundreds of FBI papers on the Cooper case.

I'm guessing there will be lots to sleuth in these documents.

 

[snowleopard]

Thanks Snoopster! I've just read about half of the statements and two things stuck out to me, given the statements so far: 1 I think Tina said with some emphasis that Cooper refused all refreshments several times...I take that to mean no alcohol too.(?). 2 Multiple witnesses used terms like 'swarthy', 'olive complection', 'latin', or 'mexican' to describe his appearance. My 2c.

 

[Sasquatch]

USA TODAY : Scientists say they may have new evidence in D.B. Cooper case
"They’re asking for the public’s help because of potential leads that could link the hijacker known as D.B. Cooper to the Puget Sound aerospace industry in the early 1970s.........
...The scientific team has been analyzing particles removed from the clip-on tie left behind by Cooper after he hijacked a Northwest Orient passenger jet in November 1971.
A powerful electron microscope found more than 100,000 particles on old the JCPenny tie, including cerium, strontium sulfide and pure titanium."
USA Today Link:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/01/13/scientists-say-they-may-have-new-evidence-db-cooper-case/96575858/
Citizens Sleuths Forensic Analysis In Detail:
http://www.citizensleuths.com/titaniumparticles.html

 

[nedflanders1980]

USA TODAY : Scientists say they may have new evidence in D.B. Cooper case
"They’re asking for the public’s help because of potential leads that could link the hijacker known as D.B. Cooper to the Puget Sound aerospace industry in the early 1970s.........
...The scientific team has been analyzing particles removed from the clip-on tie left behind by Cooper after he hijacked a Northwest Orient passenger jet in November 1971.
A powerful electron microscope found more than 100,000 particles on old the JCPenny tie, including cerium, strontium sulfide and pure titanium."
USA Today Link:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ay-have-new-evidence-db-cooper-case/96575858/
Citizens Sleuths Forensic Analysis In Detail:
http://www.citizensleuths.com/titaniumparticles.html

Amazing find. Maybe this will crack the case.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I'm curious to find out if someone out there knows of an engineer from that time period in 1970 who bore the surname of Nichols or Nicholas. I am also wondering if the chemicals found on the tie can be traced to a Naval military background.

The Citizen Sleuth article concludes that it was an engineer who worked in the chemical or machine or metal fabricating industry who had a military background. I'm thinking of someone who may have had two of those characteristics and later worked for a chemical company.

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm curious to find out if someone out there knows of an engineer from that time period in 1970 who bore the surname of Nichols or Nicholas. I am also wondering if the chemicals found on the tie can be traced to a Naval military background.

The Citizen Sleuth article concludes that it was an engineer who worked in the chemical or machine or metal fabricating industry who had a military background. I'm thinking of someone who may have had two of those characteristics and later worked for a chemical company.

Interesting thoughts...Are you thinking Joseph Newton Chandler III could have been DB Cooper?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...n-Chandler-III-Jul-02/page8&highlight=nichols

 

[mrseeker]

Interesting thoughts...Are you thinking Joseph Newton Chandler III could have been DB Cooper?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...n-Chandler-III-Jul-02/page8&highlight=nichols

Times were different back then, but you would think anyone who worked on sensitive defense industry projects would have an FBI clearance. Maybe the FBI should check their old files.

 

[Tricia]

Was D.B. Cooper a Boeing employee???

http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Was D.B. Cooper a Boeing employee???

http://www.king5.com/news/crime/new-evidence-was-db-cooper-boeing-employee/385924766

L.D. Cooper's brother was a Boeing employee. Marla Cooper' s uncles.

 

[WestcoastPDX]

I don't want to get off track with the name. But, when I lived in Seattle around 82-84. I was in my pre-teens. I somehow became friends with a man named Bob. Slender white male. 5'-7" to 5'-11". Always dressed in slacks and short sleeved dress shirts. Had glasses and lived alone. He used to ride a bike daily and we used to ride with him. Friends and I. He lived very moderately, and looked to young to be retired.

He lived in the bottom right apartment. I lived in the brick apartments in the 2nd pic back then. He was very well spoken. Did not have any adult friends that I can think of. At times we would eat at the Sizzler on Broadway. It was next to an old video arcade at the time. If what people are now saying that DB Cooper had worked at Boeing. Then there could a chance that Bob may have worked at Boeing. I am not 100% sure of his past occupation. But, at least wanted to give my memories some life. Of, course I may be wrong because if he had money. He would not have take me or friends to some free meals at a Catholic church at times.