GUILTY WA - Ingrid Lyne, 40, Seattle, 8 April 2016 #2

[bighairdontcare]

True. Imagine how messy that scene would have to be. I mean he had to have spent a significant amount of time cleaning up in there. LE found "swabs" of blood and I think some of that was in the drain. That took some presence of mind for sure. I wonder if anyone would notice if she were missing any towels.

It would have had to look like a slaughterhouse. I would imagine that it would take very long time to clean up such a significant amount of blood. I would also assume that if he were drunk ,his clean up job would be pretty sloppy. Sorry this seems graphic....but if he were to dismember her in the bathroom, I would think that blood, flesh would literally cover that whole bathroom from head to toe! If he used her towels, he would have probably had to use almost all of them! Unless he used some sort of tarp- and if that was the case , I would believe that it would have been pre meditated.

 

[Jinkasaurus]

Anyone here who followed the Becky Watts case will remember that in that case, the police believe the dismemberment took place in a bathroom- and they were unable to find any sort of DNA in that bathroom. I think there might have been a scratch on the tub, but nothing that proved that the power saw the murderers were caught on film purchasing was used in the tub. On this forum, when we followed the trial, there was speculation that the dismemberment had to have taken place somewhere else- but if so, it was never discovered by the police.

If they did do it in the bathroom, they found a way to completely clean the entire place. I believe they also were on film buying rolls of plastic, so there was speculation they may have used some of that to cover the area where they did it.

My mind is a bit fuzzy on all the details from that case, but I know we were all shocked that they could manage to commit such a horrific crime and not leave much actual evidence behind. And as far as anyone knows, this was their first attempt at dismembering a body.

 

[CSIDreamer]

It would have had to look like a slaughterhouse. I would imagine that it would take very long time to clean up such a significant amount of blood. I would also assume that if he were drunk ,his clean up job would be pretty sloppy. Sorry this seems graphic....but if he were to dismember her in the bathroom, I would think that blood, flesh would literally cover that whole bathroom from head to toe! If he used her towels, he would have probably had to use almost all of them! Unless he used some sort of tarp- and if that was the case , I would believe that it would have been pre meditated.

I wasn't so much thinking of the mess as you'd think the bathtub would be all dinged up and scratched.

 

[Whiteorchids]

It would have had to look like a slaughterhouse. I would imagine that it would take very long time to clean up such a significant amount of blood. I would also assume that if he were drunk ,his clean up job would be pretty sloppy. Sorry this seems graphic....but if he were to dismember her in the bathroom, I would think that blood, flesh would literally cover that whole bathroom from head to toe! If he used her towels, he would have probably had to use almost all of them! Unless he used some sort of tarp- and if that was the case , I would believe that it would have been pre meditated.

Agree 100% Look how much blood in Travis Alexander Room in Jodi Arias case, she slashed his throat from ear to ear but didn't cutoff his head and other limbs like JC. Look how much blood everywhere when Nicole Simpsons head was nearly severed off. It seems like his clothes would be bloody and got all over the seats of her SUV. He did a lot of cleaning up. Her body had to be very slippery in the bathtub. It would be a hard job but he managed to pull it off.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Yes, Harvest & I have to respectfully disagree with those posters here that think the murderer of IL was simply a Narcissist. Heck, Narcissism is bad, is very common, & is NOT even listed in the DSM anymore!
Most Psychopaths & Paranoid Schizophenics & some with mood disorders like bi-polar will have secondary personality disorders such as Narcissism BUT I will bet my last dollar that Narcissism will not be his primary diagnosis! And I'm not saying Narcissism isn't bad -- nope....I full well know the significance of it; personally & academically. But what I am very confident in saying is this: there's more here---way more...as in **dual diagnosis** more!

IMHO, he has significant personality disorders combined with mood disorders that will come out in time but (and I'm sorry to say this) are so significant as to possibly meet the criteria of criminally insane. Yep, I said it.

We will wait & see.

All moo

I'm assuming you're a psychologist, or therapist, or something along those lines. I'm just curious and don't mean this in a combative way at all. Why does there always have to be a diagnosis to pin on someone? Seriously, sheer evil doesn't need an additional label. It just seems it's hard for those of us who ARE normal to believe evil ... bad seed ... really exists. We have to explain it away somehow or the monster under the bed may be real. Know what I mean?

 

[birpu]

As far as what to call him, the generic and all-inclusive term "psycho" works for me.

 

[bighairdontcare]

Agree 100% Look how much blood in Travis Alexander Room in Jodi Arias case, she slashed his throat from ear to ear but didn't cutoff his head and other limbs like JC. Look how much blood everywhere when Nicole Simpsons head was nearly severed off. It seems like his clothes would be bloody and got all over the seats of her SUV. He did a lot of cleaning up.

And we don't even know how she died yet ! Was she stabbed ? Was she shot? I mean... The injuries that caused her death could have provided a mass amount of blood.... On top of the horrific dismemberment.
There are a lot of good points , on either side , of the pre meditation aspect. Personally, I am not sure yet- I do suspect a evil rage came over him... But the dismemberment?! That's extreme. To me, that takes some type of planning... Especially in the house of another person.
And where is the rest of her poor body?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I'm assuming you're a psychologist, or therapist, or something along those lines. I'm just curious and don't mean this in a combative way at all. Why does there always have to be a diagnosis to pin on someone? Seriously, sheer evil doesn't need an additional label. It just seems it's hard for those of us who ARE normal to believe evil ... bad seed ... really exists. We have to explain it away somehow or the monster under the bed may be real. Know what I mean?

Because if he is going to trial & his lawyers try to go for an insanity defense, it becomes a big deal about his diagnosis.
For instance, BPD ( a diagnosis for our "lovely" Jod* Ari*s) does not meet the criteria of getting a reduced sentence OR better prison terms. However, in the case of this murder of IL, there could be a significant enough diagnosis that will do that (and I hope I'm wrong).
Of course, I am not happy about that but that is the way our judicial system works.
Fortunately, the parameters & measurements of "by reason of insanity" are fairly rare and infrequent.

Moo & all hypotheses, of course.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

As far as what to call him, the generic and all-inclusive term "psycho" works for me.

Bingo---"Psycopathy" works for me!

 

[bighairdontcare]

I wasn't so much thinking of the mess as you'd think the bathtub would be all dinged up and scratched.

I agree - I would think that too. And maybe it was , but details have no been released yet ?
To dismember a person by using a hand saw would take so much strength and endurance . I don't imagine that it is particularly easy. It has to be time consuming. He claims he was "drunk" or "wasted"- well I can sure as hell tell you that when I am highly intoxicated , I struggle to even type a text message ! I can't see a highly intoxicated individual chopping up a body with a saw , bagging the parts AND cleaning up the scene !

 

[Vail]

I'm assuming you're a psychologist, or therapist, or something along those lines. I'm just curious and don't mean this in a combative way at all. Why does there always have to be a diagnosis to pin on someone? Seriously, sheer evil doesn't need an additional label. It just seems it's hard for those of us who ARE normal to believe evil ... bad seed ... really exists. We have to explain it away somehow or the monster under the bed may be real. Know what I mean?

The fact is, we are biological beings, and there is a scientific reason for everything (or so we believe). Psychologists, neuroscientists, behaviorists, criminologists etc all want to understand how guys like him come to be, and classification is apart of that. I do agree that no one label is ever really good enough - the mind is a very complex thing. I will say, though, that to be capable of dismembering a body in the way we believe this guy did, he is very likely psychopathic or was having a psychotic break when it happened. However, no one here has enough information or insight to begin to guess at a full profile of him.

I think this was posted earlier, but linking it again since it has the most compiled info of any articles I've found so far. I know it is the daily mail so you'll have to excuse their presentation of the info but it does cover everything we've uncovered so far and a little more http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...emerges-human-flesh-bathtub-dating-month.html

 

[Whiteorchids]

Because if he is going to trial & his lawyers try to go for an insanity defense, it becomes a big deal about his diagnosis.
For instance, BPD ( a diagnosis for our "lovely" Jod* Ari*s) does not meet the criteria of getting a reduced sentence OR better prison terms. However, in the case of this murder of IL, there could be a significant enough diagnosis that will do that (and I hope I'm wrong).
Of course, I am not happy about that but that is the way our judicial system works.
Fortunately, the parameters & measurements of "by reason of insanity" are fairly rare and infrequent.

Moo & all hypotheses, of course.

It's very hard to prove not guilty by reason of insanity NGRI to show the defendant didn't know right from wrong at the time of the crime. John Holmes Batman movie theater killer was clearly mentally insane but he lost that defense. Julie Schenecker who shot and killed her own two teenage kids clearly had a long history of mental illness. She also lost that defense. It's very hard to prove and is very rare they ever win that defense.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

It's very hard to prove not guilty by reason of insanity NGRI to show the defendant didn't know right from wrong at the time of the crime. John Holmes Batman movie theater killer was clearly mentally insane but he lost that defense. Julie Schenecker who shot and killed her own two teenage kids clearly had a long history of mental illness. She also lost that defense. It's very hard to prove and is very rare they ever win that defense.

I agree and you are concurring with what I posted.
However, in this particular case.....I have a hunch that there will significant findings with our murderer & his lawyers will push that envelope.
I'm sure you know the benchmark of proving an insanity plea goes waaaay beyond "knowing right from wrong".

Moo

 

[birpu]

I agree - I would think that too. And maybe it was , but details have no been released yet ?
To dismember a person by using a hand saw would take so much strength and endurance . I don't imagine that it is particularly easy. It has to be time consuming. He claims he was "drunk" or "wasted"- well I can sure as hell tell you that when I am highly intoxicated , I struggle to even type a text message ! I can't see a highly intoxicated individual chopping up a body with a saw , bagging the parts AND cleaning up the scene !

I don't want to be too gruesome, but I have a pruning saw for limbs of the tree variety. The teeth on these things are amazing - it's not like a hacksaw or regular hand saw. The teeth are long, pointy and crude. It's an aggressive saw. It saws very quickly through tree branches. It's faster than getting out the power tools. For what that's worth...

 

[Whiteorchids]

I agree and you are concurring with what I posted.
However, in this particular case.....I have a hunch that there will significant findings with our murderer & his lawyers will push that envelope.
I'm sure you know the benchmark of proving an insanity plea goes waaaay beyond "knowing right from wrong".

Moo

Yes, I do my son has schizoaffective disorder and bi-polar with psychotic episodes. I have been involved with MI and I've very familiar with the system. Laws, Psychiatrists, hospitals, jails, prisons for 13 years. Last case I remember off the top of my head who was sentenced to state hospital on NGRI was John Hinckley Jr.

 

[ninij9]

And how in the world did he have the presence of mind, supposedly drunk, to find (or even know about) a pruning saw in the garage?

Could he have asked to borrow it for his garden job at ex gf house? That would be awful. But aside from that, if she's like most people I know she has all her tools handy in one place.

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[PLT]

Wow...you make a really great point!! What if he had helped her in the yard. Wouldn't be weird and we have evidence that he helped his ex. I wonder if the cops asked why his fingerrpints might be on the saw and he admitted to helping her in the past and probably used it. I wonder if that could warrant premeditation?

Great post, PLT...thank you!

Edit: And Hello from CD's thread

Thank you and hello again marcyjoy! I need to proofread my posts better (I meant endured not injured). Yes, I couldn't figure out how he found the pruning saw - it's not something I would think would be visible unless he went searching through the house after the fact - or if he had helped her before with gardening. I read an article that said he was supposed to help his ex with lawn work (or maybe the sister?) so I thought maybe Ingrid offered it at some point and it was out. I just don't get the feeling that if this was all planned, he'd leave the weapon to chance and see what he could find while there. He had to know beforehand it was there. I just thought it was odd that yard work was mentioned and then the tool ended up being a pruning saw.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't want to be too gruesome, but I have a pruning saw for limbs of the tree variety. The teeth on these things are amazing - it's not like a hacksaw or regular hand saw. The teeth are long, pointy and crude. It's an aggressive saw. It saws very quickly through tree branches. It's faster than getting out the power tools. For what that's worth...

It is gruesome, but it's also useful information. I didn't realize that about a pruning saw - I pictured something flimsier myself. I can't help but wonder if he knew she had one.
JMO

 

[ninij9]

The problem is that all those things she did "right" only enabled law enforcement to find out who killed her...didn't prevent her ending up dead and dismembered. So what good were all the precautions in the end? It really seems like there's no way to be completely safe.

(Note: I'm not victim blaming here, I'm pointing out that even when someone is careful there is still danger.)

Which is the ONLY reason I am beginning to contemplate owning a fire arm. The bad are getting badder. The sick are getting sicker.

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[birpu]

It is gruesome, but it's also useful information. I didn't realize that about a pruning saw - I pictured something flimsier myself. I can't help but wonder if he knew she had one.
JMO

Yeah that is the question, isn't it? Here are some pruning saw teeth pictures for you: https://www.google.com/search?q=pru...X&ved=0ahUKEwjWnIugro_MAhVmsYMKHTB1CJcQsAQIGw