WA WA - Kent, UnsFem 13-24, UP9930, SK G Ridgeway Victim "B20", Aug'03 - Tammie Liles

[iamshadow21]

So has he been charged for Angela? Because I can't find that he has, and I can't understand why he hasn't been, given she was found in close proximity to other victims.

He has been for Tammie, but only as "B-20". Even though they'd found other remains identified earlier as her, he wasn't charged for that, either. Makes no sense to me.

MOO

 

[DS2021]

This is why people should stay in Namus until they are fully recovered.

 

[iamshadow21]

This is why people should stay in Namus until they are fully recovered.

Especially when we know of perpetrators who dismember, disperse, or move remains, like Ridgway, Bundy, and LISK. It's not like investigators on Green River didn't know he was moving and messing with remains.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

According to this article, Tammie was sixteen.

Final remains in Green River Killer case identified as Everett teen | HeraldNet.com

Tammie Liles, 16, was finally linked to the bones and teeth long known as “Bones 20.” Advances in DNA technology led to the breakthrough.

www.heraldnet.com

Thirty three of the names on his confirmed victims list on Wikipedia (including Tammie) were teenagers. And twelve others were 25 or under. And that's not including other presumed victims like Kelly McGinniss or Angela Girdner, the majority of whom were also teenagers.

 

[taramarie]

So has he been charged for Angela? Because I can't find that he has, and I can't understand why he hasn't been, given she was found in close proximity to other victims.

He has been for Tammie, but only as "B-20". Even though they'd found other remains identified earlier as her, he wasn't charged for that, either. Makes no sense to me.

MOO

No, he denied their murders. If I’m remembering correctly, the plea deal that kept the death penalty off the table didn’t apply to Angela Girdner and to the skull previously identified as Tammie because they were found in a different county. This could prove that he is responsible for their murders. It will be interesting to see if LE pursues additional charges now that there’s more evidence pointing at him.

 

[taramarie]

According to this article, Tammie was sixteen.

Final remains in Green River Killer case identified as Everett teen | HeraldNet.com

Tammie Liles, 16, was finally linked to the bones and teeth long known as “Bones 20.” Advances in DNA technology led to the breakthrough.

www.heraldnet.com

Thirty three of the names on his confirmed victims list on Wikipedia (including Tammie) were teenagers. And twelve others were 25 or under. And that's not including other presumed victims like Kelly McGinniss or Angela Gardner, the majority of whom were also teenagers.

Yep, he went after literal children. Wendy Stephens was only 14, and 3 of his other victims were only 15. He’s vile.

 

[iamshadow21]

Yep, he went after literal children. Wendy Stephens was only 14, and 3 of his other victims were only 15. He’s vile.

And him claiming he thought Wendy was in her twenties is such BS.

I worked for an outreach service over twenty years ago that supplied safe injecting equipment, condoms, lube, etc. We had an underage sex worker who used our service. She was an amazingly stylish and sophisticated dresser who could throw together a classy outfit that looked designer from purchases at the local Vinnie's charity shop. She was still obviously a teenager. She in fact complained about johns who would get a look at her when she got in their cars and turn her down for being too young.

He absolutely knew how young they were. They were his preferred prey. He prowled looking specifically for the young ones. He reaped an endless, bloody harvest of them in the Pacific Northwest.

MOO

 

[SimsGuy67]

Oh my god. Tammie was a case I heavily researched when looking into the Gary Ridgway case. I even found an initial sketch of her while unidentified for the first time (Her other partial remains before B-20). This is one of my pet cases, and I knew her name the whole time.

This means Tammie is a confirmed victim of Ridgway, and Angela probably is too. @othram, you have just solved a long-standing mystery in this case, and one of my pet cases. Thank you so, so much.

Also, Ridgway made a big mistake leading investigators to Tammie's remains, as now he can be linked to a murder he could go up to the death penalty for, that being Angela's.

 

[iamshadow21]

Oh my god. Tammie was a case I heavily researched when looking into the Gary Ridgway case. I even found an initial sketch of her while unidentified for the first time (Her other partial remains before B-20). This is one of my pet cases, and I knew her name the whole time.

This means Tammie is a confirmed victim of Ridgway, and Angela probably is too. @othram, you have just solved a long-standing mystery in this case, and one of my pet cases. Thank you so, so much.

Yeah, she's on the possible/probably victims table on the Wikipedia page, along with Angela. I don't think there's any doubt now, given they found the B-20 remains because of Ridgway leading LE to them. He claimed not to be responsible for Tammie, but leads them to some of her remains? Yeah, right.

MOO

 

[SimsGuy67]

Yeah, she's on the possible/probably victims table on the Wikipedia page, along with Angela. I don't think there's any doubt now, given they found the B-20 remains because of Ridgway leading LE to them. He claimed not to be responsible for Tammie, but leads them to some of her remains? Yeah, right.

MOO

I always had a feeling he murdered Angela and Tammie even in October when researching the case. I, and sleuths and investigators, were right.

This reminds me of the Patricia Campbell case. She was found in 1981, but her skull was found in 1986 but remained unidentified until 2022.

 

[iamshadow21]

I always had a feeling he murdered Angela and Tammie even in October when researching the case. I, and sleuths and investigators, were right.

This reminds me of the Patricia Campbell case. She was found in 1981, but her skull was found in 1986 but remained unidentified until 2022.

Also an @othram solve.

I feel so grateful to be living at this time, when we can see these girls get their names and faces back and go home. It matters, it really does matter. How we treat and advocate for the dead says a lot about us as people. That a case is cold, that a victim is marginalised, that a perpetrator may be deceased or unidentifiable shouldn't make a difference in how diligently we work for these people.

MOO

 

[SimsGuy67]

Ridgway also murdered Tammie the day after he murdered Constance Naon. It shows how often he murdered women at that time.

Also, one thing that I don't like about these cases is that we only get high-quality photos of the person when they've been ID'd, not before. All I had was a black-and-white newspaper photo of Tammie before, and now I have a colored, high-quality version of the same photo.

On the other hand, I'm aware we have no right to this information.

 

[iamshadow21]

Ridgway also murdered Tammie the day after he murdered Constance Naon. It shows how often he murdered women at that time.

Yeah, I'm fairly sure he was out looking pretty much every day, even if he didn't kill every single time.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Ridgway also murdered Tammie the day after he murdered Constance Naon. It shows how often he murdered women at that time.

Also, one thing that I don't like about these cases is that we only get high-quality photos of the person when they've been ID'd, not before. All I had was a black-and-white newspaper photo of Tammie before, and now I have a colored, high-quality version of the same photo.

On the other hand, I'm aware we have no right to this information.

At least we have something. It's somehow an additional layer of sadness when there's an identification and there are no photos at all, even when they have living, loving family. Not a mug shot (Valerie Mack and Jessica Taylor, for the longest time, all we had was awful mugshots, but I've seen nice pictures more recently), not a yearbook picture, nothing. I like that they engraved Joseph Zarelli's NCMEC recon on his headstone. That felt right. I doubt anyone took a picture of that baby his whole life until the police and the medical examiner.

Often, only having a poor quality black and white is a relic of the predigital era, of photocopies and newsprint. We're going to see fewer of those as time goes on. What we are seeing more of is the only picture supplied has a Snapchat or Instagram filter on it. I hate that, especially in missing persons cases, because the real person often looks very different from an image with a heavy filter that smooths and changes skin tone (especially dark skinned people, they seem to lighten a lot) and distorts features like eye shape and noses. I've seen a filtered image and an unfiltered image of the same person, and I honestly could have had a conversation with the misper and had the filtered image right in front of me and not recognised the actual person as being the same individual.

MOO

 

[SimsGuy67]

At least we have something. It's somehow an additional layer of sadness when there's an identification and there are no photos at all, even when they have living, loving family. Not a mug shot (Valerie Mack and Jessica Taylor, for the longest time, all we had was awful mugshots, but I've seen nice pictures more recently), not a yearbook picture, nothing. I like that they engraved Joseph Zarelli's NCMEC recon on his headstone. That felt right. I doubt anyone took a picture of that baby his whole life until the police and the medical examiner.

Often, only having a poor quality black and white is a relic of the predigital era, of photocopies and newsprint. We're going to see fewer of those as time goes on. What we are seeing more of is the only picture supplied has a Snapchat or Instagram filter on it. I hate that, especially in missing persons cases, because the real person often looks very different from an image with a heavy filter that smooths and changes skin tone (especially dark skinned people, they seem to lighten a lot) and distorts features like eye shape and noses. I've seen a filtered image and an unfiltered image of the same person, and I honestly could have had a conversation with the misper and had the filtered image right in front of me and not recognised the actual person as being the same individual.

MOO

I do get what you mean. I often see so many missing persons in NamUs with no photos attached to their cases. The point I was trying to make was that if a photo is available, it should be distributed. It can be the difference between solving a case or letting it run cold.

 

[DS2021]

Also, Ridgway made a big mistake leading investigators to Tammie's remains, as now he can be linked to a murder he could go up to the death penalty for, that being Angela's.

Would they even pursue the death penalty on a 74 year old man.

He would likely die of natural causes on death row, imo it would be a waste of money

 

[Susikatze]

Seems like her (partial) remains were already found and her family knew she was deceased. How sad to have that old wound reopened again all these years later.

So he put part of her remains in one location and the rest in another. Yikes

 

[victoriarobinson642]

I do get what you mean. I often see so many missing persons in NamUs with no photos attached to their cases. The point I was trying to make was that if a photo is available, it should be distributed. It can be the difference between solving a case or letting it run cold.

Oh man, yeah, on the missing persons end this drives me nuts. That's why you see me posting so many photos in MP threads on here.

 

[DS2021]

So he put part of her remains in one location and the rest in another. Yikes

It could be animal predation, depending on the distance

 

[iamshadow21]

So he put part of her remains in one location and the rest in another. Yikes

Ridgway moved several victims, or parts of some victims, in an attempt to hinder identification and confuse police, sometimes over state lines. He would also deliberately seed dump sites with material like used gum, cigarette butts, and written items belonging to other people to obfuscate the scene with false genetic and personal 'evidence'.

We think of him as a predator that began in the preDNA era, but he knew enough about forensics to evade capture for a long time. And this from a man with a low eighties IQ.

MOO