WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #16

[LookN4Lindsey]

Snipped

Hi Look4Lindsey, I think it all depends on who you believe as there are several versions. What came out at the beginning about half way home might not be the true fact IMO. After all, the media also reported Lindsey was about 1/2 way home when last seen and we know from the Affidavit she was at 6th and Maple!

To paraphrase what Kara said, JB was sent home at a point about 3 houses E of Kara's place where the witness was visiting someone and was out standing in the yard. I don't know if there was a 2nd witness. But since Kara said Lindsey was only at their house about 5 min, making the turnaround time so short, it does make logical sense she also saw her walking back down Maple as she started for home.

It would be interesting to find out who lives about 3 houses this side of Kara IMO. Is there another connection of some sort to the case ??? ??? I'd like to know if there is. It is very close to the temporary 'scene of the crime', where Lindsey was last spotted as we have been told by the Affidavit. I did ask Kara in a post once where the witness lived. She said she thought on 6th and Simpson, but didn't know for sure and would find out. Never heard anymore. Maybe the witness was visiting on a cross st tho, like 7th. Don't know.

It especially makes sense if Lindsey turned up 6th St to go on Fir to see if her friend at Libby's was there. If that is the case it doesn't make any sense that Lindsey was seen about half way home walking down Maple. And I do believe LE had some info Lindsey was seen walking on 6th, or why would they search JM's property 6x's. :waitasec:

Of course the info is only as good as the giver of it, right. I've read both Kara and MB changed their stories at times. We have to take everything, weigh it, match it to what else we have until hopefully a bright light will shine and it will be our joint Gestalt moment. Ya Ya


For sure we will not give up on Lindsey.

PS: I just proof read this post and it almost sounds mean! LOL Believe me Look4Lindsey, that isn't what I wanted to impart here. xox

I do not think that it sounds mean at all - actually I quite enjoy reading your posts - whether I agree with them all or not you always seem to support your thoughts/theories and/or explain why you are looking at something in particular.

I just wanted to point out above where Jules71 stated

About the argument - who knows if it happened at all after reading yesterday that KK said MK and LB were teasing JB and that is why he turned around and left them.

that the snipped article actually says that MK said it. I just like to try and catch things because over the course of the many forums I've seen a lot of innocent misquotes turn into a big drama down the line...lol.... so if I can help eliminate any of those then great!

As for the witness(es) there is a report and article that quotes that there were "witnesses" - I am at a loss if there ever actually was more than one or not because no one has ever been identified publicly by LE nor have they chose to come public themselves. (edited to add this!)

Keep up the great work guys and lets do what needs to be done to bring Lindsey home!

 

[scandi]

I do not think that it sounds mean at all - actually I quite enjoy reading your posts - whether I agree with them all or not you always seem to support your thoughts/theories and/or explain why you are looking at something in particular.

I just wanted to point out above where Jules71 stated that the snipped article actually says that MK said it. I just like to try and catch things because over the course of the many forums I've seen a lot of innocent misquotes turn into a big drama down the line...lol.... so if I can help eliminate any of those then great!

As for the witness(es) there is a report and article that quotes that there were "witnesses" - I am at a loss if there ever actually was more than one or not because no one has ever been identified publicly by LE nor have they chose to come public themselves. (edited to add this!)

Keep up the great work guys and lets do what needs to be done to bring Lindsey home!

Hi Looking4Lindsey, Your points are well taken. In a way I'm thankful LE is keeping so much info private and am sure it is to protect the integrity of the case so they can solve it and bring Lindsey home.

The media is known for reporting inaccurate info in crime cases. I learned that well in the Scott Peterson case. And how! A very wise and respected poster here told me LE is using the media as a tool to get out there what they want in the public sphere. I do believe that. xox


Oh, do you know anything about the Call Center? Ta

 

[LookN4Lindsey]

Hi Looking4Lindsey, Your points are well taken. In a way I'm thankful LE is keeping so much info private and am sure it is to protect the integrity of the case so they can solve it and bring Lindsey home.

The media is known for reporting inaccurate info in crime cases. I learned that well in the Scott Peterson case. And how! A very wise and respected poster here told me LE is using the media as a tool to get out there what they want in the public sphere. I do believe that. xox

I agree. I know from researching previous cases, as of late, that when they withhold something there is often a very good reason for it. As frustrating as it is for all of us that are here searching, researching and just praying for answers.

I only followed the Peterson case off and on so did not have the opportunity to see the flawed reporting but I have noticed things like a front page story run a week or so ago that quotes Lindsey as being gone for 5 months - which is not what I'd call "accurate". That and as was already pointed out the numerous varying accounts from media on how far from home Lindsey was last seen etc etc.

Being a part of the search center too, some of us have had the opportunity to witness interviews done with Lindsey's family members that were later published and "quotes used" were not always verbatim.

I think they all just want their own wording/spin on it - trying to keep it fresh. That is not always the best thing to do, obviously, because it just causes there to be discrepancies and we on this end are left to figure out what is true, who said/did what and what part of it is really just "their take".

Oh, do you know anything about the Call Center? Ta

Yes,I know something about it - nothing helpful. I do not believe though that the call center worker and the "city worker" are the same person.

 

[McCleary]

I believe the closest official call center is in Olympia or Tumwater...I can't think of any closer than that.

And there are a lot of reasons a person might ask not to be identified; I know for awhile I was doing my best to keep a low profile in my everyday life because I had an ex looking for me...and no way to get a protective order against him. Luckily I got that taken care of.

Sometimes people are just really shy or don't want attention, sometimes they need to be protected from others not related to the case and they still want to do the right thing...and I'm sure that there are other reasons too.

I'm frustrated too about the lack of information on the witness, but I think about how I would feel to be thrust into the spotlight during an investigation like this in such a small town...and I don't think I'd want the public to know my name either.

 

[carbuff]

I just want to thank you guys again for all the wonderful work you've done to find Lindsey. It must be so discouraging to be there and have things going nowhere. But hang in there. The truth will come out eventually.

I wish I was closer to Washington so I could help more. But not a lot to be done from the East coast, is there? Besides just offer support and prayers?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Once again, I feel a need to post even though I indicated I was going to watch and wait. Well, I've done that so ....

I had posted a court case record of someone involved in this case and, although I believe it to be relevant to the discussion because of circumstance and time frame, the post was inappropriate due to the age of the person. I've not stepped back from that line of research but I will no longer post my commentary regarding that individual.

If we could attempt to clarify the following comment groupings, sourced from The Daily World site: http://www.thedailyworld.com/articles/2009/09/27/local_news/doc4abf03c936aa2261426446.txt:

McCleary Mayor Wallace Bentley remembers the night Lindsey disappeared like it was yesterday. The little girl’s route home would have taken her right past his house. In fact, a confirmed sighting of Lindsey has her disappearing right outside his home on Maple Street, within view of his windows.

• 'Like it was yesterday' ?? That does not fit .. since the Mayor does not recall important information.
• How does A (meaning ONE) confirmed sighting have Lindsey disappearing at that specific location, "within view of his windows"? Would you not need a 2nd witness sighting at a location just beyond the 1st witnessed location, separated by mere minutes?

“I’ve been bending my brain around what happened ever since,” Bentley said. “I returned home from a retirement party for a city employee. I was there. I know I saw kids on the street. But did I see her? I don’t know. I wish I could say I did, but I just don’t know.”

• Mayor states: "I was there. I know I saw kids on the street."
  That's 'kids', as in plural. We need to know the time the Mayor 'was there'. Might we assume it was 9ish, perhaps when LB and MK were on the way towards MK's house? Was JB still with them at that time?
• Mayor states: "But did I see her? I don’t know." If it was @ 9ish and it was only LB and MK on their way to MK's, one might expect the Mayor to recognize if one of only two kids was LB.
• Mayor states: "But did I see her? I wish I could say, but I just don't know." That is odd phrasing. I would have said: "I wish I knew", not "I wish I could say". I'm not reading anything in to it ... it's just seems odd.
• Did the Mayor recognize any of the kids, whether it was before or after 9:15 pm?

Across the street, William Self, 79, says he was home, too. But he didn’t see anything either. He says an FBI agent looked through his home and in his backyard for Lindsey, like they did for practically every neighbor up and down the six or seven blocks it would have taken Lindsey to go from her friend’s house back home.

• Self did not see anything. Did he hear anything?
• Did the FBI do the same with the Mayor's house? I'm simply curious if 'political privledge' led the day during those critical hours. I'm guessing the FBI or someone did search the Mayor's house.

I'm not accusing, nor suspecting. This is quoted information from the Mayor and a neighbor and it might be helpful to drill down through the quotes, to hopefully reach more accurate and more informative levels.

With the mystery [accurate information blackout or media flubb] surrounding the number of 'witnesses' and what they might or might not have seen or heard that evening, there is no way to sleuth this. Nada. There are not enough *facts* floating in the public ether to allow anyone to 'solve' it.

LE might be withholding key information, we might assume for if someone confesses. Understandable.

We also might assume knowing that key information is not necessary to solve this. But ... what if it is? I would expect LE has questioned town-folk as to particulars regarding that key information, and had done so without those town-folk being the wiser that their questioning involved that key information.

So, then .. who was questioned, about what, and when? Does anyone visiting this board *know*? Does that matter at all?

... or was this simply a just-driving-through-McCleary creep who happened upon LB, that no one living there or perhaps anywhere in WA, ever knew?

Truckers. Loggers. Locals. Peers. Relations. Local authority. RSOs. Non-RSOs. Cults. Dingo. ??

Given the information we read or watch in the public domain, well, take your pick. Although, I think we can rule out the Dingo. :banghead:

 

[Novice Seeker]

Chuck, all very important questions which have yet to be addressed much less acknowledged. There just seems to be too many unanswered questions, a police force that contiues to be oddly silent which begs the question why. Several key players in this case have given many inconsistent stories about the entire case so IMO we still don't know any vital truth to this case. Because the stories and timelines continue to change IMO the time of beginning of this crime started at the video store where there is factual time stampped video of LB. What really confuses me is why the FBI has not taken over as lead on this case. I know some have suggested they have but from what I've read including the local police, the FBI has still not been given control of this investigation. Can MB demand that the federal bureau take over this case?


Novice Seeker

 

[carbuff]

Why is it that I don't think Mr. Mayor is telling everything he knows? Or is he just one of those slick politicians who sounds like he's lying the more he tells the truth?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Chuck, all very important questions which have yet to be addressed much less acknowledged. There just seems to be too many unanswered questions, a police force that contiues to be oddly silent which begs the question why. Several key players in this case have given many inconsistent stories about the entire case so IMO we still don't know any vital truth to this case. Because the stories and timelines continue to change IMO the time of beginning of this crime started at the video store where there is factual time stampped video of LB. What really confuses me is why the FBI has not taken over as lead on this case. I know some have suggested they have but from what I've read including the local police, the FBI has still not been given control of this investigation. Can MB demand that the federal bureau take over this case?

Novice Seeker

Last I knew, the case had been handed over to the GHC Sheriff's Office on 06/27/2009 @ 4:15 am.

I think it might require *evidence* of kidnapping before Feds take over ... as of yet, there is no [publicized] evidence of that, only conjecture.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Why is it that I don't think Mr. Mayor is telling everything he knows? Or is he just one of those slick politicians who sounds like he's lying the more he tells the truth?

The Mayor is an older gentleman, so we might cut him slack as to what he thinks he remembers and what he wants to tell. It seems he might not quite trust himself regarding memory, so he tramples cautious.

As for being a 'slick politician' ... no evidence of that. Meeting minutes might reveal some insight into his personality, but then again, minutes would be filtered through whomever is in charge of recording them.

I do not suspect the Mayor or Mr. Self of holding back vital information, I think it might be a matter of a 'disconnection from surroundings' that affects some folks after surpassing a certain age.

Regarding the 6 LE searches @ 220 S. 6th., Jim Mullen's creek. That property was sold / purchased in May 12, 2009, according to information on the GHC Assessor's web site http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/gh_Parcel/Search/DetailParcel.asp?SrchParcelNo=063003000100&ABSeq==

Was that a red flag that led LE to search the property? I can not fathom a reason why.

 

[carbuff]

The Mayor is an older gentleman, so we might cut him slack as to what he thinks he remembers and what he wants to tell. It seems he might not quite trust himself regarding memory, so he tramples cautious.

As for being a 'slick politician' ... no evidence of that. Meeting minutes might reveal some insight into his personality, but then again, minutes would be filtered through whomever is in charge of recording them.

I do not suspect the Mayor or Mr. Self of holding back vital information, I think it might be a matter of a 'disconnection from surroundings' that affects some folks after surpassing a certain age.

Regarding the 6 LE searches @ 220 S. 6th., Jim Mullen's creek. That property was sold / purchased in May 12, 2009, according to information on the GHC Assessor's web site http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/gh_Parcel/Search/DetailParcel.asp?SrchParcelNo=063003000100&ABSeq==

Was that a red flag that led LE to search the property? I can not fathom a reason why.

Thanks. I guess I did imply that I thought he was deliberately lying, but I didn't mean to. Just that it feels like there's something missing there, that if he could remember would be helpful.

We had an alderman a few years back who could look out at the blue sky, say "It's a beautiful day," and make it sound like a lie. As far as I know, he was perfectly honest, he just had that way about him.

 

[scandi]

Last I knew, the case had been handed over to the GHC Sheriff's Office on 06/27/2009 @ 4:15 am.

I think it might require *evidence* of kidnapping before Feds take over ... as of yet, there is no [publicized] evidence of that, only conjecture.

Hi ya Chuck, I do know an Investigator Davin is the lead on the case and they have a full time gal on the case in Montesano. She might be Davin, I don't know.

When the FBI first came down from Seattle there was a link saying the computer guru guy {name ???} was in charge of the case. A couple of weeks ago JenniferO said the FBI is still in charge.

The deal with the FBI tho is the way they operate is they do their own investigation in the case as the local LE does. Then the FBI bows to the locals for arrests, etc. So the FBI would never be in charge of the local LE operation as far as I know.

If Coldcaseman happens to read here today he would know how this works in GHC.

Back to work, but will think about your big post Chuck and respond when I get home. xox

 

[scandi]

The Mayor is an older gentleman, so we might cut him slack as to what he thinks he remembers and what he wants to tell. It seems he might not quite trust himself regarding memory, so he tramples cautious.

As for being a 'slick politician' ... no evidence of that. Meeting minutes might reveal some insight into his personality, but then again, minutes would be filtered through whomever is in charge of recording them.

I do not suspect the Mayor or Mr. Self of holding back vital information, I think it might be a matter of a 'disconnection from surroundings' that affects some folks after surpassing a certain age.

Regarding the 6 LE searches @ 220 S. 6th., Jim Mullen's creek. That property was sold / purchased in May 12, 2009, according to information on the GHC Assessor's web site http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/gh_Parcel/Search/DetailParcel.asp?SrchParcelNo=063003000100&ABSeq==

Was that a red flag that led LE to search the property? I can not fathom a reason why.

Chuck, Can you find out if Mayor Bentley sold that property to JM? Ta


Also, has anyone learned anything about the Call Center. Where is it and is it a private firm or a County agency. xox

 

[Knox]

Think it was said to be a Verizon call center Scandi.

 

[scandi]

Why is it that I don't think Mr. Mayor is telling everything he knows? Or is he just one of those slick politicians who sounds like he's lying the more he tells the truth?

Both the Mayor and JM seem to fit the perp profile in the case and am wondering if anyone on that thread has excluded either gentleman.

 

[scandi]

Think it was said to be a Verizon call center Scandi.

Thanx Knox and see you tonight. ;}

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Hi ya Chuck, I do know an Investigator Davin is the lead on the case and they have a full time gal on the case in Montesano. She might be Davin, I don't know.

When the FBI first came down from Seattle there was a link saying the computer guru guy {name ???} was in charge of the case. A couple of weeks ago JenniferO said the FBI is still in charge.

Yes, I now recall Davin is the 'she' to whom you refer ... all tips and leads are sent directly to her.

As for the FBI being in charge, do we know, of what? Computer forensics and / or beyond?

I recall info from many years ago about Fed involvement in local LE-related issues, and the 'crime' had to fall within a specific set of guidelines. Perhaps this is different across the country, dependent upon local LE MO.

I'm looking forward to reading more on this, and to your commentary, scandi!

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Both the Mayor and JM seem to fit the perp profile in the case and am wondering if anyone on that thread has excluded either gentleman.

Based upon ... ? Have the allegations against WB been confirmed, and is *this* JM *THEE* JM:RSO? I've read of no evidence regarding either.

It does make me wonder:

An evening in a small town neighborhood, with at least some individuals on the street either driving to work or visiting in neighbors yards ...

/// but *no one* sees nor hears anything *unusual* ///

... but yet, a then-10 yr old goes missing under their very noses?

So then, what was so 'usual' that someone might have witnessed and thought nothing of it? What are we missing?

It seems impossible to create a timeline / opportunity list, simply because it would be so unwieldly ... some timelines are not concrete and there seems to be too much opportunity for too many.

Do we need a 'this person was here at this time' and their 'opportunity level was x', thread?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Chuck, Can you find out if Mayor Bentley sold that property to JM? Ta

To obtain Sales information from the Assessor:

Parcel Sales Search Registration (now free!)


1. Download and print two copies of the required registration application. You’ll keep one copy for yourself.
2. Thoroughly read the registration application.
3. Completely and accurately fill out the registration application.
4. Sign and date all three pages.
5. Return the application

Central Services
100 W. Broadway. Suite 32
Montesano, WA 98563


Quite frankly, I have no interest in having papers with my signature stored in a filing cabinet in some county clerks office 2,000 miles away from me. Uh-uh. ;-)

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Perhaps I missed it but, has anyone determined:

* The Park N Ride Bus Schedule for the evening of 06/26/2009
* The trash / recycles pick-up schedule
* Street cleaners (Elgin or boots on the ground?)
* Repairpersons /Service personnel / Emergency HVAC / Plumbing
* McCleary Community Church services - was anyone attending that evening
* Walkers / Joggers / Dog walkers
* Was anyones pet spooked or acting unusual that evening
* Where were McCleary PD squad cars

Do I think LB stepped into a bus that evening? No.
Do I think LB was placed ... No.

I'm just trying to be complete.