WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #16

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Thanks, NS,

Regarding the 'time frame' .. the McCleary Video timestamp reveals the group was there between 8:10 pm and 8:30 pm, if I'm not mistaken. 10-15 min walk from there to the B house, 10-15 min chat and shower then off to the K / W house, arriving there approximately 9:00 pm.

LE expanded the time frame to include back to 8:30 pm because they most likely believe that is when the perp(s) first glimpsed LB (or anyone?) and possibly overheard conversation, i.e.: "We'll go back to my house to shower first then we'll go to your house to ///// then we'll go back to my house." Whether or not the 'glimpse / overheard' occurred at the video store / lot or somewhere along the way to / from the store is up for debate.

Although many WS'ers focus on the 'crime scene' as being between 6th and 5th, I believe the 'scene' includes from LN's house to McCleary Video to the B house and to the K / W house.
-----------
Could very well be. Just FYI that we've discussed this possibility before.
My posts among the others:

7/15

eyes4crime:

A video store is a place where a perp. could unobtrusively closely follow the girls, and in that somewhat contained space, listen in and make observations, all the while appearing to peruse the videos.


10/17

Wish we knew what the conversation was amongst the girls on the way to, from and during he trip to the video store and if the girls noticed anyone hanging around.
 
I've read of an 8:20 pm video timestamp. If the store did close at 8:00 pm and if the referenced timestamp is accurate, then the specific camera is pointing to the outside of the store or is installed outside.

In fact, that scenario might imply extended outside exposure of the group in that area as they might have lingered a few minutes as they decided what to do nextt .. and also presented opportunity for their conversation to be overheard.

I am curious to know who[m] was parked close enough to the chatty group to overhear their chatter. I think we might assume that most / all of the group were wearing nothing but bathing suits so a perp might already have been eyeballing them before they entered the store.

After thinking on this I am convinced the perp was as the McCleary Video scene, or at least very close.


Hi Chuck, It could be the video store had different hours back in June but the 8pm hour is what I had read. Video surveillance operates on motion, so even if the store was closed and there were people in there finishing up the day's work, paying for their rentals, the cameras would still be showing that activity.

Now as to sound, I rather doubt there was any joined with the visual. Microphones can be wired into a camera system but it is very seldom done. I don't even think banks use sound. We just did a system for a car dealer with alarm tied to cameras and a huge bullhorn, that when the camera would trip the alarm with movement a very loud voice will blare out "We have you in our sight, Get off of the property'. There was no microphone however attached to that elaborate system. In a small town like McCleary I don't think they would have an extremely sophisticated video surveillance system. IMO
 
If LB was abducted for a non-trafficking purpose by a long-time McCleary resident, we might assume a few possibilities:
  • First-time kidnap for this individual:
    • Successful.
    • Left no [publicly announced] clues.
    • To where did he bring LB?
    • Now has a taste for it.
    • As times passes, hunger increases?
    • What / where next?
  • Not the first time:
    • Usually travels to elsewhere but not this time.
    • Becoming either lazy or bold.
    • If lazy, is perp older or tiring of it, stressed?
    • If bold, then success elsewhere has gone to his head.
    • Boldness increases likelihood he will repeat.
    • Repeat, but not necessarily in McCleary.
    • What Washignton counties / towns are within 35 - 50 miles of McCleary proper?
If perp is not a McCleary resident:
  • From where does this perp originate?
  • How ofen does / did he travel to / through McCleary?
  • How does he explain his travel absence?
  • Does he travel state to state or only within WA?
  • If he travels only by vehicle, is it always the same vehicle?
  • Does he work (sales rep or similar) out of his vehicle?
  • Is the vehicle the 'main' scene of the crime?
  • When he completes his legitimate work in an area is when he commits this act before moving on to the next job area?
 
More questions to ponder:
  • How many were in the traveling swim party group?
  • Was anyone in the group carrying a cell phone?
  • Did any of them place / receive a call during the walk to / from the video store?
  • Did LB and MK leave the video store before the others?
  • At which point did LB and MK separate from the main group?
  • Was LB singled out for abduction? Why?
  • Was this an opportunity abduction - no specific target?
  • Was another the target and LB was mistaken for that individual?
  • Was this revenge against the B family / MB / GSB?
  • Were grandparents interviewed / cleared?
  • On which other web sites might LB have entered personal data or blogged?
 
Watching the memorial service for the 4 fallen officers in Parkland, I see the Shelton PD and Mason County Sheriff's Dept are represented among the 20,000 officers present in the Tacoma Dome. I wonder if officers from McCleary, Montesano, Elma and the Grays Harbor Sheriff's office are there? Probably. xox

ETA: The bagpipers are now marching in with what is the largest assemblage I have ever seen. God Bless all those officers come to honor these who died in the line of duty. It is most moving.
 
More questions to ponder:
  • How many were in the traveling swim party group?
  • Was anyone in the group carrying a cell phone?
  • Did any of them place / receive a call during the walk to / from the video store?
  • Did LB and MK leave the video store before the others?
  • At which point did LB and MK separate from the main group?
  • Was LB singled out for abduction? Why?
  • Was this an opportunity abduction - no specific target?
  • Was another the target and LB was mistaken for that individual?
  • Was this revenge against the B family / MB / GSB?
  • Were grandparents interviewed / cleared?
  • On which other web sites might LB have entered personal data or blogged?


Hmmm, Great points, again. Your insights always makes my brain churn out more questions, so...

*what leads you to feel the contact was made around the video store? Depending on the day we've been told several versions surrounding that evening which includes the video store. My thoughts...

This was the first day Lindsey had been accepted back into this group due to a falling out over boys(at that age, go figure) but had recently made up(girls tend to carry grudges that aren't resolved that quickly so I'm concerned about these girls motives. Were they setting Lindsey up for further retaliation of some sort?)

I still can't grasp why all of the girls went to pick out movies when MK and Lindsey weren't spending the night. Wouldn't that have been late for a group of girls that age to be in town alone?

Lately I've read some articles that give conflicting accounts about who said what to Lindsey at KK's house. Why could something as simple as who actually told Lindsey to go home have various versions? Why would someone lie about something as simple as that? Was there a party or guests at KK's house where someone could have seen Lindsey? They would know Lindsey was going to be alone while she walked back to her house. So, although the crime took place outside the contact/decision was made during that particular interaction.

I just don't buy the stranger abduction b/c in a town that small s/he would have stuck out like a sore thumb. It's my opinion that whoever took Lindsey is very familiar with that community. Although I fear Lindsey is no longer with us I do think her precious body is nearby.


Novice Seeker
 
-----------
Could very well be. Just FYI that we've discussed this possibility before.
My posts among the others:

7/15

eyes4crime:

A video store is a place where a perp. could unobtrusively closely follow the girls, and in that somewhat contained space, listen in and make observations, all the while appearing to peruse the videos.


10/17

Wish we knew what the conversation was amongst the girls on the way to, from and during he trip to the video store and if the girls noticed anyone hanging around.

Hi, concentric,

It seems like both a crime of opportunity and of planning. The perp just happens into a swim party group near / in the video store and he decides to further the chance encounter to something else.

Whether LB was a specific target or was someone else, the perp managed to remain unobserved and unobtrusive while still maintining tabs on at least the LB / MK / JB group as they left the video store.

On second thought, LB's MySpace page entry ['nightmares' and 'something bad'] comes to mind: for how long was the perp stalking them / LB?

Since that entry was dated May 29, 2009, one might assume the perp remained unobtrusive yet stalked for many weeks and at least LB picked up on something not being quite right, if not dangeorus.

Of whom was LB afraid, that was stalking her and her friends? What occurred on May 29, 2009 or the previous day(s) that tempted LB to make that entry?

***
The root cause of LB's MySpace entry of May 29, 2009 and the broad video store scene of June 26, 2009 will provide information needed to solve this mystery.
 
Hi, concentric,

It seems like both a crime of opportunity and of planning. The perp just happens into a swim party group near / in the video store and he decides to further the chance encounter to something else.

Whether LB was a specific target or was someone else, the perp managed to remain unobserved and unobtrusive while still maintining tabs on at least the LB / MK / JB group as they left the video store.

On second thought, LB's MySpace page entry ['nightmares' and 'something bad'] comes to mind: for how long was the perp stalking them / LB?

Since that entry was dated May 29, 2009, one might assume the perp remained unobtrusive yet stalked for many weeks and at least LB picked up on something not being quite right, if not dangeorus.

Of whom was LB afraid, that was stalking her and her friends? What occurred on May 29, 2009 or the previous day(s) that tempted LB to make that entry?

***
The root cause of LB's MySpace entry of May 29, 2009 and the broad video store scene of June 26, 2009 will provide information needed to solve this mystery.



IIRC another strange component of that MySpace entry was the time it was entered. Didn't MB state that Lindsey had been sleeping with her? Was Lindsey's fear of what was outside that house or inside?

Novice Seeker
 
IIRC another strange component of that MySpace entry was the time it was entered. Didn't MB state that Lindsey had been sleeping with her? Was Lindsey's fear of what was outside that house or inside?

Novice Seeker

I haven't read of where LB was sleeping. Where did MB reveal that info?
 
I haven't read of where LB was sleeping. Where did MB reveal that info?

Hi Chuck, It came from KK in a post she wrote in early August.. What she basically said was that Lindsey had told her how she used to crawl in bed with her mom quite often and they'd read stories together, like Harry Potter which was the most recent book they were reading.

I think that's pretty normal to do, kids crawling into bed with a parent, bonding while reading a story they both enjoy. Every kid loves to be read to. Ya Ya
 
News article quotes are sourced from an article no longer accessible from The News Triubune web site:

After four months, authorities have little evidence in Lindsey Baum case
JEREMY PAWLOSKI; The Olympian
Published: 11/01/09 5:47 am | Updated: 11/01/09 5:47 am

Melissa Baum said she’s sure whoever took Lindsey knew her, saying her daughter is too smart to get into a stranger’s car. If someone tried to hurt her, she’d fight back, Melissa Baum added.

If LB does know the perp, of what else then would she be afraid, re: her MySpace entry? Were LB's fears directed at something / someone very familiar to her?

Everyone in McCleary who has ever come across Lindsey – Chief Crumb, Cunningham, Kara Kampen (whose Maple Street home Lindsey was visiting June 26 to play with her friend Michaela) describe Lindsey as sharp, precocious for her age and talkative.

How might those attributes play in to this case?

Lindsey had left her cell phone charging at home the evening she went missing.

Did LE keep LB's cell phone / keep it charged to monitor for calls that might come in after LB went missing?

If they did not do that, then shame, shame.

When police viewed Lindsey’s MySpace page after her disappearance, they learned only that she had an affinity for the popular movie “Twilight,” a story of vampires set in Forks. A forensic search of her computer showed she had had no Internet communications with anyone whom she might have met without telling her mother, police said.

Curious. Why didn't LE mention LB's 'something bads gonna happen' entry? Surely that qualifies as being important and relevant, unless LE knows specifically why LB expressed that fear.

No Internet communications. Well, one might suspect 'her computer' was not her only access to the Internet. Friend's computers, Library computers?

From May 29, 2009 through to June 26, 2009 I wonder if LB had left other 'clues' on the Internet besides on MySpace.

Were LB's friend's MySpace pages also checked for LB entries, since there might have been access-sharing between friends?
 
News article quotes are sourced from an article no longer accessible from The News Triubune web site:





If LB does know the perp, of what else then would she be afraid, re: her MySpace entry? Were LB's fears directed at something / someone very familiar to her?



How might those attributes play in to this case?



Did LE keep LB's cell phone / keep it charged to monitor for calls that might come in after LB went missing?

If they did not do that, then shame, shame.



Curious. Why didn't LE mention LB's 'something bads gonna happen' entry? Surely that qualifies as being important and relevant, unless LE knows specifically why LB expressed that fear.

No Internet communications. Well, one might suspect 'her computer' was not her only access to the Internet. Friend's computers, Library computers?

From May 29, 2009 through to June 26, 2009 I wonder if LB had left other 'clues' on the Internet besides on MySpace.

Were LB's friend's MySpace pages also checked for LB entries, since there might have been access-sharing between friends?



IIRC KK posted that her computers had been taken by the FBI and don't think any information has been released about what was found on those. KK also said that the girls would go to the library to use the computers there. But something that has bothered me is when KK got on the board and was saying that the girls weren''t allowed access to these sites but when several MySpace pages were pulled up KK's actually had both her daughter and Lindsey listed as friends. Why would KK say something like that when she knew both girls were using her computer?

O/T somewhat but could someone please explain to me why it's so hard to be honest about even the remotest thing? Why FGS is it so difficult to tell the truth? It just seems to be an epidemic especially when people go missing. Is this our society today?


Novice Seeker
 
Hi Chuck, It came from KK in a post she wrote in early August.. What she basically said was that Lindsey had told her how she used to crawl in bed with her mom quite often and they'd read stories together, like Harry Potter which was the most recent book they were reading.

I think that's pretty normal to do, kids crawling into bed with a parent, bonding while reading a story they both enjoy. Every kid loves to be read to. Ya Ya

Thanks, scandi,

Yes, I am aware of the Harry Potter aspect. I think NS was suggesting LB was sleeping with MB because LB feared something in the house.

O/T:
Oh yes, I do fondly remember my Mom reading to me back in the day, and also watching tv with me and making funny comments on the actors. I do miss my Mom very much. She passed away almost 20 years ago but I remember so much of her. Godspeed and bless you, Mom! My Dad will soon be living near us, and we're quite excited about that!
 
Hmmm, Great points, again. Your insights always makes my brain churn out more questions, so...

*what leads you to feel the contact was made around the video store? Depending on the day we've been told several versions surrounding that evening which includes the video store. My thoughts...

I do not believe contact was made in the sense there was shared awareness of presence. But since Simpson is considered a main / busy road (Google Earth photos along the route reveal significant traffic) and the swim party group were static (in place) in the video store I would expect it more likely that a perp could zoom in and fester a plan.

Also, since the area would have been quite busy with people and vehicles it would be more likely that a perp would not stand out.

This was the first day Lindsey had been accepted back into this group due to a falling out over boys(at that age, go figure) but had recently made up(girls tend to carry grudges that aren't resolved that quickly so I'm concerned about these girls motives. Were they setting Lindsey up for further retaliation of some sort?)

I can not speak to that group of girls carrying grudges that aren't 'resolved so quickly', but it seems if there is mutual gain for girls (or for anyone) in resolving an issue then it is more likely to be resolved sooner rather than later. Apparently, something pleased both sides to agree to reconciliation.

By now, if this were a retaliation scenario I would expect someone to have cracked by now, since we are talking about kids.

I still can't grasp why all of the girls went to pick out movies when MK and Lindsey weren't spending the night. Wouldn't that have been late for a group of girls that age to be in town alone?

Perhaps LB and MK tagged along to talk with the person working the video store that evening. I believe that to be LC, whom was familair with LB as well as with many of the kids in McCleary, based on this news article quote:

*** begin news article excerpt ***
Linda Cunningham, the owner of McCleary Video on Simpson Avenue, said FBI agents have interviewed her three times about Lindsey’s visit to the store with friends an hour or so before she disappeared.

“They (investigators) talked to everybody in town,” she said. “They looked through everybody’s house at least twice.”

Cunningham said her store used to be filled with children renting DVDs and video games after school. However, “as soon as Lindsey got kidnapped, parents stopped letting their kids go around,” she said. “It’s hurting businesses, too. I don’t blame the parents.”

Cunningham added, “I feel so bad, but there are times I just want it to end. I like to think she will just come home. We just want her to come home and try to be a normal town again.”
*** end news article excerpt ***

Lately I've read some articles that give conflicting accounts about who said what to Lindsey at KK's house. Why could something as simple as who actually told Lindsey to go home have various versions? Why would someone lie about something as simple as that? Was there a party or guests at KK's house where someone could have seen Lindsey? They would know Lindsey was going to be alone while she walked back to her house. So, although the crime took place outside the contact/decision was made during that particular interaction.

It seems complete verbiage of actual conversation held within and outside the house has not been made public but then, the given time frame of that scene is so short we might expect not much of interest was bantered about.

As for whom said what to LB, I read that as possibly each person (KK and SW) trying to alleviate blame from the other as to whom is responsible for not letting LB sleep over or for not letting MK return with LB to the B house.

It's too easy to lay suspicion in that scene, since so much could be contrived into the story, such as:

KK arranged for JB to be sent home early and she did not let LB sleep over or let her daughter return with LB to the B house because she plotted to have LB wisked away from McCleary forever and ever because LB was such a bad influence on her daughter and that she never really liked the Bs anyway........
If KK were involved what would be a motivating factor? Money via Human Trafficking? Revenge? Fodder for a book? I suspect that is highly unlikely.

I just don't buy the stranger abduction b/c in a town that small s/he would have stuck out like a sore thumb. It's my opinion that whoever took Lindsey is very familiar with that community. Although I fear Lindsey is no longer with us I do think her precious body is nearby.

Novice Seeker

Hopefully, time will tell one way or another.
 
Thanks, scandi,

Yes, I am aware of the Harry Potter aspect. I think NS was suggesting LB was sleeping with MB because LB feared something in the house.

O/T:
Oh yes, I do fondly remember my Mom reading to me back in the day, and also watching tv with me and making funny comments on the actors. I do miss my Mom very much. She passed away almost 20 years ago but I remember so much of her. Godspeed and bless you, Mom! My Dad will soon be living near us, and we're quite excited about that!


That is so neat Chuck that you treasure those memories of your Mom and still miss her after all this time. It reminds me of the old song ' . . . .and a boy's best friend is his mother, his mother.' I hope you enjoy every minute you spend with your Dad. I know being around you he will be in heaven with all the interesting conversation. xox
 
That is so neat Chuck that you treasure those memories of your Mom and still miss her after all this time. It reminds me of the old song ' . . . .and a boy's best friend is his mother, his mother.' I hope you enjoy every minute you spend with your Dad. I know being around you he will be in heaven with all the interesting conversation. xox

Thank you, scandi, I appreciate your kind words!
 
I've been reading many posts on some of the other (non-WS) boards last evening through to this morning and I must admit it seems to me everyone out there are lighting fires and chasing the smoke they create.

In the recent threads there is quite a pinpoint focus mostly on KK and changing stories and dogs and scent / no scent and front porch and who else was in 'that house' and more changing stories and etc. etc. etc.

Yikes.

Too many peeps are too determined to solve this case not only with existing information but with incomplete extrapolations to nth degrees that lead to nowhere except back to their beginnings, and those beginnings usually are fires started by those using kindling that does not belong in this case.

Those posts seem to leave out an important aspect: MK.

If there were such clandestine shenanigans and goings-on at the KK house that evening designed to specifically lead to the disappearance of LB, would those posters also have to suspect that MK was involved in the plot? After all, she was there in the midst of the interaction.

Each of us must accept that we most likely do not have all the information we need to realize this case to a conclusion. Attempting to fill in gaps in haphazard fashion is not practical, nor is it logical. There are too many not-involved peeps asking too many questions of the so few involved peeps that stories are birthed out of reading between lines that in reality do not exist.

Geez-Louise!

Stop smacking the baby! Hitting it harder only makes it more unintelligible.
 
Copied over last section of ChuckM's post from last evening....

ChuckM....
It seems complete verbiage of actual conversation held within and outside the house has not been made public but then, the given time frame of that scene is so short we might expect not much of interest was bantered about.

As for whom said what to LB, I read that as possibly each person (KK and SW) trying to alleviate blame from the other as to whom is responsible for not letting LB sleep over or for not letting MK return with LB to the B house.

It's too easy to lay suspicion in that scene, since so much could be contrived into the story, such as:


Quote:
KK arranged for JB to be sent home early and she did not let LB sleep over or let her daughter return with LB to the B house because she plotted to have LB whisked away from McCleary forever and ever because LB was such a bad influence on her daughter and that she never really liked the Bs anyway........
Unfamiliar with this quote, wasn't made by me.

If KK were involved what would be a motivating factor? Money via Human Trafficking? Revenge? Fodder for a book? I suspect that is highly unlikely.

Motivating factor for what? KK being the one who hurt Lindsey for the reasons posted above? My reference to the conflicting statements of KK and boyfriend is to the question of why does something as simple as who told who to go home be so complicated. When a crime is committed and LE interviews the last known adults to see this child alive why can't the truth be told, period. Has society altered the definition of truth enough that people can be allowed to justify or define their own meaning of what truth is?

Quote:
I just don't buy the stranger abduction b/c in a town that small s/he would have stuck out like a sore thumb. It's my opinion that whoever took Lindsey is very familiar with that community. Although I fear Lindsey is no longer with us I do think her precious body is nearby.

Yes, I believe this crime was committed by someone locally. Although I'm not sure where the crime actually took place. There are numerous sources or sites that have information about this crime. Some may be setting "fires and chasing their own smoke" but we're all intelligent enough to recognize the difference between what just looks like a fire and that which is a real fire.

How does one go about searching for clues, information and the truth about the unanswered questions and lies made by those close to this case?

Novice Seeker
 
Copied over last section of ChuckM's post from last evening....

/// snippage ///

It's too easy to lay suspicion in that scene, since so much could be contrived into the story, such as:

Quote:
KK arranged for JB to be sent home early and she did not let LB sleep over or let her daughter return with LB to the B house because she plotted to have LB whisked away from McCleary forever and ever because LB was such a bad influence on her daughter and that she never really liked the Bs anyway........
Unfamiliar with this quote, wasn't made by me.

/// snippage ///

Novice Seeker

Please re-read the bold red text, above. I did not state that the bold blue text was an actual quote from someone. My point was it is too easy to contrive wild theories based on speculation by those who suspect KK is not being truthful or forthcoming. I believe I caused some confusion by wrapping the 'contrived' blurb in a QUOTE tag. :sick:
 
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