WA - Mackenzie Cowell, 17, Wenatchee, 9 Feb 2010 - #13

[PlainFranky]

There was an article in the WW before they even found her body about how they got warrants for her phone records.

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2010/feb/13/police-will-analyze-teens-phone-records/?online

But what did they request at that time?

Did they simply request that they get access to MC’s call records or all of the “ping data’ and other data associated with her phone?

 

[James Vic]

Bingo mom. I think you nailed it. Pings are not saved by the carriers for very long at all. They have no billable value and simply use space. You also have to take into account that the record custodians for the carriers are normally just as backed up as LE. Record Custodians are employed by the carrier but produce no revenue so they typically are not well staffed. When you are dealing with multiple carriers and roaming issues it only gets that much more complicated.

Dogdad,

If a ping happened because the phone was moving, is there a way we could narrow down the areas where the pings may have taken place, by using the tower maps?

 

[del rio]

del IMO you can add another one to make it 8:

"(6) The person committed the murder to obtain or maintain his or her membership or to advance his or her position in the hierarchy of an organization, association, or identifiable group;"

IMO the above would include gangs.

I didn't include #6 because I personally don't believe gangs were involved. This murder and the cover-up just seem too sophisticated to be gang-related. IMO.

Nonetheless, #6 is a possibility.

 

[del rio]

If this person is charged with capital murder and the prosecutor is seeking the death penalty they better have their ducks in a row. I know this from experience; the charges need to fit what they will be convicted on. Too many times a prosecutor will go for what they want and not what they can be convicted on. It would be better to get a life with no parole conviction than a death penalty hung jury or no conviction.

James Vic is correct. Plus, the prosecutor must notify the defendant very early in the proceeding of the State's intent to seek capital punishment.

This could be another reason LE is waiting to make an arrest.

 

[No More]

But what did they request at that time?

Did they simply request that they get access to MC’s call records or all of the “ping data’ and other data associated with her phone?

IMO it is pretty clear that the carrier failed to preserve the records, as they were lawfully ordered to do. If this sheriff is as experienced as people say, and his office is now consulting the U.S. Attorney's office in regards to this matter, then IMO LE wasn't slow with paperwork and they have good cause to bring another federal agency into the case.

He ended his interview with this news, and used words like "critical". IMO this part of the story will become a story in and of itself.

 

[PlainFranky]

IMO it is pretty clear that the carrier failed to preserve the records, as they were lawfully ordered to do.

How did you get that from the interview?

 

[No More]

How did you get that from the interview?

Because IMO it a is very improbable scenario that local LE was delinquent in getting the Order to Preserve to the carrier immediately, and then would contact the U.S. Attorney's office. IMO LE doesn't contact and involve that federal office unless they have there ducks in a row and for something very serious. JMO of course.

 

[PlainFranky]

Because IMO it a is very improbable scenario that local LE was delinquent in getting the Order to Preserve to the carrier immediately, and then would contact the U.S. Attorney's office. IMO LE doesn't contact and involve that federal office unless they have there ducks in a row and for something very serious. JMO of course.

Of course your interpretation could be right but I viewed the comment differently.

When he said that he would be contacting the U.S. Attorney’s Office to ensure that it doesn’t happen in the future I thought that he would be asking them to lobby to require all carriers to retain the data for at least 30 days instead of the 5 that at least one does.

 

[No More]

Of course your interpretation could be right but I viewed the comment differently.

When he said that he would be contacting the U.S. Attorney’s Office to ensure that it doesn’t happen in the future I thought that he would be asking them to lobby to require all carriers to retain the data for at least 30 days instead of the 5 that at least one does.

Ohhhh whoops, I better listen to the interview again. Thanks.

 

[Dogdad]

Dogdad,

If a ping happened because the phone was moving, is there a way we could narrow down the areas where the pings may have taken place, by using the tower maps?

Pings happen on scheduled cycles for arguments sake lets say every 4 minutes. The ping is a communication with the network saying "hey I'm over here". The phone will also ping whenever a call/text is sent or recieved. It's basically hidden data for the system to know where to send call info. To use the maps you would need the ping data. face of site and power levels.

Also keep in mind that a ping is just a "snapshot" and is not always accurate it is also considered circumstantial. An actual call is alot more valuable because the tower and voice channels tell alot more specific information.

 

[Dogdad]

Because IMO it a is very improbable scenario that local LE was delinquent in getting the Order to Preserve to the carrier immediately, and then would contact the U.S. Attorney's office. IMO LE doesn't contact and involve that federal office unless they have there ducks in a row and for something very serious. JMO of course.

That or the wording on the request wasn't specific? When I worked in this position I would estimate that 90% of all LE record requests were for subscriber requests and call records. Specific switch records are a whole different process and are purged frequently. I have no knowledge of what the actual request was or the timing

 

[PlainFranky]

Ohhhh whoops, I better listen to the interview again. Thanks.

I don’t think that there will be a definitive answer to what he was actually saying as he was pretty vague. I read a lot into his statement that some companies save the data for 30 days and others 5 days.

My thought is why would he bring the 5 day information up if the company was in violation?

Why wouldn’t he simply say that they requested the data but even though the company received the request they didn’t honor it and deleted the data?

 

[greydiggity]

DogDad, maybe you can answer this... Last year we were in a position that we had to have phone records pulled. The request was sent and we were informed they had been purged. We were then informed they had to contact someone in "purged records". They did a second pull of records at that point. This was a difficult data pull through archives, but eventually, the purged records were located. (this took over 5 months) What would be the difference in this case? Also, when determining the carrier for the cell phone, keep in mind any cell phone can have any carrier. We all have different phones that are not specific to any carrier because we purchased them privately "unlocked". This makes them able to be used with any cell phone carrier. This makes it harder to "guess" which cell carrier dumped their records. We have Tmobile, but none of our phones are tmobile, but they have all been unlocked to use with any carrier.

 

[Dogdad]

DogDad, maybe you can answer this... Last year we were in a position that we had to have phone records pulled. The request was sent and we were informed they had been purged. We were then informed they had to contact someone in "purged records". They did a second pull of records at that point. This was a difficult data pull through archives, but eventually, the purged records were located. (this took over 5 months) What would be the difference in this case? Also, when determining the carrier for the cell phone, keep in mind any cell phone can have any carrier. We all have different phones that are not specific to any carrier because we purchased them privately "unlocked". This makes them able to be used with any cell phone carrier. This makes it harder to "guess" which cell carrier dumped their records. We have Tmobile, but none of our phones are tmobile, but they have all been unlocked to use with any carrier.

grey was your request for call records or site data? All call records are kept for a much longer time. They may be archived but are still retrievable. Site data is not kept for long because it has no value, it simply eats space. The carrier I worked for did not archive site data

 

[girlfawkes]

If this person is charged with capital murder and the prosecutor is seeking the death penalty they better have their ducks in a row. I know this from experience; the charges need to fit what they will be convicted on. Too many times a prosecutor will go for what they want and not what they can be convicted on. It would be better to get a life with no parole conviction than a death penalty hung jury or no conviction.

Boy... unfortunately both Douglas and Chelan counties have dismal records when it comes to charging capital murder with the DP. They prefer to either make concessions if a suspect will plea guilty even if the evidence is overwhelming (as in the case of the Huffman's in Douglas) or simply avoid it if possible, as in the case of Jeremy Wood in Chelan county, who's killer (Mike Lauderdale) plead innocent. In that case I remember the prosecuting attorney (Reisen) proclaiming proudly that Chelan county had never had a DP case and he wanted to keep it that way (paraphrasing). I knew both the perp and victim in that case and if any murder ever warranted the DP it was that one. Just horrible.

It will be interesting to see what happens in this case, and which jurisdiction does the actual prosecution.

 

[momonthego]

I must admit I am quite pleased LE spoke out. Not only did it give us new stuff to pick apart, it leads me to believe they are cautious and careful to not make mistakes. I think (am hopeful) the over-under is likely April 15 for more forensic evidence. True, they don't have the cell phone data that could "pin" someone(s) at one place at one time, but there is still an underlying plea for witnesses who saw ANYTHING.

Some of my friends at CB (those who live there and work there full time) have not been interviewed since the weekend she was found. I think I mentioned previously, LE has not really been back there since 2/16. I have been told that some people that work there during the week (potential witnesses to the CB house) were not interviewed at all.

JIMO I think LE has one or more POI in mind, someone with close ties to MC.

They are just waiting for the lab to call to seal the deal. raying:raying:

 

[JBean]

Please don;t link to pictures of those that are not related to the case. if there is the slightest chance they could be a minor it is even more important that we are careful not to link.
Also no posting of rumors or things that you have "heard". It becomes facts so fast it will make your head spin!

thanks all.

 

[alt.theory]

Please don;t link to pictures of those that are not related to the case. if there is the slightest chance they could be a minor it is even more important that we are careful not to link.
Also no posting of rumors or things that you have "heard". It becomes facts so fast it will make your head spin!

thanks all.

No posting of rumors? Since when? We would still be on thread one if that were the case...

 

[Nancee Drue]

Would a person know his phone records and data were being investigated by LE? Or, would LE get the records with out notifying the cell phone owner?

If LE must notify the cell phone owner, then he/she knows that that he/she is a possible suspect.

 

[Ozz]

Dogdad, what kind of info can be gained from the tower and voice channels?