WA - Mackenzie Cowell, 17, Wenatchee, 9 Feb 2010 - #15

[del rio]

Except that the carwash info came from 2 independent sources

SillyPutty--Hi! I can't seem to send you a private message but----

I am favoring the carwash being a significant part of the events for MC----do you mind answering a couple of questions for us again???

1. Where did you hear about the carwash info?

2. What did you hear again?--e.g. which carwash, what time, was the attendant young or old, etc.

Someone went by the SuperWash near Dusty's and the old man attendant said he had not heard of anything of an attendant seeing MC or being questioned by LE etc. and that he would know because it would be talked about amongst the employees. Thoughts?? Thx.!!!!

Yeah, that's right. So,either the man at the car wash really has no idea if MC was at the car wash. Or, he knows she was, and he can't share that information.

So, if she was not at the car wash, then why did the two members post that information? Where does the rumor come from?

It could be an alibi for a killer. He could say he was at the car wash and start that rumor.... so everyone believes he was in MC's car, at the car wash. Or, he could start a rumor that unknown passenger was in MC's car. The unknown stranger could be blamed for the crime...while Killer sits back and watches and listens.

~A message today from my local source~
This morning at about 9:30, I took a road trip to the Super Wash next to Dusty’s Drive Inn. I spoke to the attendant there. He was an older gentleman. I thought I would bring up the car wash rumor that has been circulating. He had NOT A CLUE about what I was talking about. I asked if he knew anything about someone that worked there saying they saw MC washing her car the day she disappeared. Not only did he say "no", he also said they have NO security cameras at any of the three Super Washes here in town. I mentioned this had been discussed on WS and he had never heard of it. He said that I could ask some of the attendants at the other Super Washes but he figured if somebody had actually seem MC that day and subsequently called it in to LE and was questioned, there would have been talk. He said not even the owners had ever mentioned it. So I would say there is about a 99% chance the car wash lead is FALSE.

I think he was going to go home and check websleuths though!…….

Ok...let's guess the rumor is a real rumor, and MC likely did not go to the car wash. Why would two different people say she did?? Could they have been misinformed or could Killer have started that rumor?? Just wondering and guessing...no facts, here...

INTERESTING!! H20skiier said that it was LE that was talking when this was overheard that there was a positive ID at the carwash (no mention of which one though) and the attendant confirmed that the passenger was a male under questioning by LE. Either the info is false, or there is a different carwash. or something. But then again I am able to let go of my baby theories when faced with different info!!!

ETA: I hope I am quoting H20skiier correctly here.......

2 or 3 threads ago, we hashed out this "car wash" theory and ended up dismissing it after spending some time investigating it.

IIRC, when the "car wash" theory was originally posted, it came out of nowhere from an alleged "newby" poster who posted it as fact and then that "newby" poster disappeared.

Then, recently, the exact same thing happens. From completely "out of left field," an allegedly "newby" poster suddenly posts information about the "car wash" theory. IIRC, this "newby's" first post regarding the "car wash" theory was very forceful and she, again, posted the theory as fact. Yet that "newby" (like the original "newby" poster) didn't stick around for "our cross-exam."

I don't BELIEVE the killer started the "car wash" theory. And I'm not trying to sleuth any fellow WSers.

All I'm saying is that, personally, I'm not so sure the "car wash" theory came from two different sources.

I'm also saying that, IMO, this "car wash" theory is a red herring.

 

[hotmadre]

2 or 3 threads ago, we hashed out this "car wash" theory and ended up dismissing it after spending some time investigating it.

IIRC, when the "car wash" theory was originally posted, it came out of nowhere from an alleged "newby" poster who posted it as fact and then that "newby" poster disappeared.

Then, recently, the exact same thing happens. From completely "out of left field," an allegedly "newby" poster suddenly posts information about the "car wash" theory. IIRC, this "newby's" first post regarding the "car wash" theory was very forceful and she, again, posted the theory as fact. Yet that "newby" (like the original "newby" poster) didn't stick around for "our cross-exam."

I don't BELIEVE the killer started the "car wash" theory. And I'm not trying to sleuth any fellow WSers.

All I'm saying is that, personally, I'm not so sure the "car wash" theory came from two different sources.

FYI, I heard the car wash rumor early on, from my friend of LE, in the first week or two. I did NOT hear it on Websleuths first...
Personally, I AM going to the Superwash tomorrow, and hopefully talk to someone other than the older gentleman, and check it out myself. Will report back.

 

[humwhatsup]

MC did not do drugs or drink alcohol for that matter. While that may sound somewhat naive, it is based in fact. She had been exposed to more than her fair share of addictive behaviors and had strong feelings about not wanting to be a part of that culture. She might have been a 5'9" dark haired knockout, but she was a timid, sweet young woman trying to overcome her insecurity for the first time as a senior on the dance team. She was working on her nutrition, consulting with brother CC and working out at the gym on a regular basis with a decent awareness of healthy habits.

IMHO this was NOT a drug deal.

Like always, still many pages behind... Ok 5'9" tall, does someone know her approximate weight before she went missing? Now, very important to me! Thanks

 

[del rio]

FYI, I heard the car wash rumor early on, from my friend of LE, in the first week or two. I did NOT hear it on Websleuths first...
Personally, I AM going to the Superwash tomorrow, and hopefully talk to someone other than the older gentleman, and check it out myself. Will report back.

Correct if I'm wrong Hotmadre, but IIRC, you were not the first sleuther to bring up the "car wash" theory. So I'm not doubting you or your veracity.

 

[sunhaven]

I feel strongly that if any of us feel that something is irrelevant or not a great theory that we keep that to ourselves. Each of us has certain ideas that we are each trying to flush out and it is not conducive to healthy sleuthing if someone states that the idea is silly, irrelevant, or not one that they like!
I remember the carwash discussion and read every one of those posts, then new info came in and I started with some new ideas. I believe that I have a right to do so---as do those who continue to sleuth whether the feet were in the river or a stream (a question that is not a burning one for me).
Finally, H20skiier has come back and forth and has really nothing to defend or be cross-examined about. He/she stated what they overheard from the police talking to another person. I see that he/she checks in every once in awhile on the main site, and he/she answers every one of my private messages and questions almost immediately. If you have questions try PMing H20skiier. I also sent a public message to SillyPutty the other person who came on here (I assume that the moderators would not allow 2 names from the same home e-mail address so that people could double up).
Finally, I have a couple of different theories of what and/or who is involved and I am reading and critically reviewing evidence for all of them------just because the group has quit on a hypothesis or because a newby showed up and then disappeared is not a good enough reason to dump an entire hypothesis. I don't quit that easily on a possible idea and I notice that neither do you. Honoring tolerance, patience, and openness......

 

[Nancee Drue]

I don't BELIEVE the killer started the "car wash" theory. And I'm not trying to sleuth any fellow WSers.

All I'm saying is that, personally, I'm not so sure the "car wash" theory came from two different sources.

I'm also saying that, IMO, this "car wash" theory is a red herring.

It could be....so, who started the "theory" and why?

 

[hotmadre]

Correct if I'm wrong Hotmadre, but IIRC, you were not the first sleuther to bring up the "car wash" theory. So I'm not doubting you or your veracity.

Thank you. No, I was not the first one to bring it up. Because of the source, I did not want to hinder the investigation in any way by disclosing information that was not out for public knowledge at that time. I have not encountered my source for several weeks, and do not feel comfortable just calling up out of the blue with questions, but believe me, my radar is ON, and I don't go through a day without looking for more info, whether it be looking for a second black Honda with a spoiler parked at Shari's as a possible employee, or looking for a certain JV when I check out at Target, I definitely want ANSWERS...as we all do!

And when I saw four squad cars zip through town towards Eaglerock today, I must confess I couldn't resist driving the circle, and checking that they were no where in the vicinity of the spec. house or C. residence.

And Del Rio, YOU have been a champion of information and insight...especially on the CB location, so thanks for all your time and effort.

Here's to all of us united in one cause: Finding the murderer(s) of Mackenzie.

 

[scandi]

Before I hit the hay, I keep thinking this crime might be much more simple than we are thinking right now.

Like my poster friend, who believes the perp could have parked the car where he did as it was out of the way and yet within walking distance of his home.

And we know nothing to involve another car that could have driven Mackenzie to the CB home, do we? So it must have been her driving under force or under a guise of some sort.

Why didn't the neighbor notice a car at the house around 4 or so? Maybe he works during the day, eh? If the Astros are correct and she died close to 4:15 {they are often right on}, the guy could have taken an hour + to take the body down to the river. And that last ping at 5:42 could have occured as he either threw the phone in the river or put it in his pocket, accidentally hitting a button, as he drove off in her car. Then he drove for an hour and 15 min, trying to think of where to park the car, and by 7:02 had it in place behind a cattle gate so it would not draw attention and he walked down a road to his house.

IMO, for tonight ;}

 

[humwhatsup]

This is so frustrating!!!! We keep going in circles.... Things keep coming up again that we have already gone over (not meaning any harm, I just think we are stuck). We need MEDIA! We need family to not be afraid to go speak out!

The LE! They will tell you in this valley not to talk!! I have had it happen! My daughter was 14 and a 20yr old took advantage of her (not a boyfriend). We think they used that date drug. Anyways...she lost it all of a sudden and blacked out, hitting her head. She woke up being raped!!! The minute she told me I called the police, and they did nothing (This guy’s father was a well known community member with money). The LE told me that he thought she was 16 so there was nothing they could do! Told me to keep quiet. I did not!!! A friend of mine called the guy and scared the **** out of him! The next day... the LE phoned me and said they would not even look at my case anymore because I stepped across the line. The LE here are politically bull****ting wrong!!!!

The LE threatens to keep quiet in this community!

My friend, her ex raped her child during a visit in Snohomish County (they live in Chelan County). The Chelan county LE seemed on it, but told her to be quiet. They said they were looking for him to take a lie detector test. She felt they were not looking for him. She called Snohomish County and told them of her concerns. They had no idea it happened!! They were pissed!! Then the next day the Chelan county sheriffs dept. calls her and tells her if she talks to anyone negative outside again they will not try to solve this case. She did not let up and contacted some WA state TV stations. The Chelan county LE ended up leaving the case unsolved, because they were pissed off!!!

FACT

Unfortunatly, I beleive this!! So sorry, the big boys here should be investigated for MANY reasons... Feel I shouldn't post this but ...be true to you and yours...

 

[del rio]

I feel strongly that if any of us feel that something is irrelevant or not a great theory that we keep that to ourselves. Each of us has certain ideas that we are each trying to flush out and it is not conducive to healthy sleuthing if someone states that the idea is silly, irrelevant, or not one that they like!
I remember the carwash discussion and read every one of those posts, then new info came in and I started with some new ideas. I believe that I have a right to do so---as do those who continue to sleuth whether the feet were in the river or a stream (a question that is not a burning one for me).
Finally, H20skiier has come back and forth and has really nothing to defend or be cross-examined about. He/she stated what they overheard from the police talking to another person. I see that he/she checks in every once in awhile on the main site, and he/she answers every one of my private messages and questions almost immediately. If you have questions try PMing H20skiier. I also sent a public message to SillyPutty the other person who came on here (I assume that the moderators would not allow 2 names from the same home e-mail address so that people could double up).
Finally, I have a couple of different theories of what and/or who is involved and I am reading and critically reviewing evidence for all of them------just because the group has quit on a hypothesis or because a newby showed up and then disappeared is not a good enough reason to dump an entire hypothesis. I don't quit that easily on a possible idea and I notice that neither do you. Honoring tolerance, patience, and openness......

I didn't state the theory was silly or that anyone should stop sleuthing it. I simply stated my opinion about the theory.

If you or anyone else wishes to continue investigating this theory, please do so. Next time a theory comes up, I'll keep my opinion to myself.

 

[Nancee Drue]

If you or anyone else wishes to continue investigating this theory, please do so. Next time a theory comes up, I'll keep my opinion to myself.

I like hearing everyone's theories.

 

[aj12]

Anybody live around fith st going toward college. About six fie trucks and seven cops three staters and two ambulances. Lot of activity I seen no smoke was on lunch brk had to come back to work.

I ran up to Safeway (corner of Miller and 5th) about an hour or so ago and saw 3 PD cars in a row traveling East on 5th. From your description, it sounds like they may have been coming back from that area. I didn't really think much of it until I saw your post. Hmmm..

 

[scandi]

One more question: Is there a bridge at Voltage that crosses the river? He could have taken it if so, and driven the back roads while contemplating what had happened and what to do next and not forget to do. That could be why the car was so dusty and dirty. IMOhttp://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=113741092510424599794.00048116a405072a9636c&z=9 {Thanks to Puff}

 

[del rio]

One more question: Is there a bridge at Voltage that crosses the river? He could have taken it if so, and driven the back roads while contemplating what had happened and what to do next and not forget to do. That could be why the car was so dusty and dirty. IMOhttp://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=113741092510424599794.00048116a405072a9636c&z=9 {Thanks to Puff}

No bridge at "Voltage." That thing across the river is Rock Island Dam. No crossing there for the public.

 

[scandi]

No bridge at "Voltage." That thing across the river is Rock Island Dam. No crossing there for the public.

Thanks, So he'd have to drive further into Wenatchee to go across the river then. Pretty risky really with lots of cars on the road that time of day.

Is it common for guys there to wear cowboy boots on a regular basis?

 

[humwhatsup]

ETA:
Possible scenarios:
1. Water covering the body might explain why there was little or no blood at this crime scene. Water level drops causing LE to make a incorrect conclusion and statement "body placed" and that they are looking for another crime site?

2. If MC's clothes were dry then would it then be possible to determine the time that the perp "placed" her body? But that would be real risky for a perp to expose him/herself during daylight?

BBM the bold by me is the basis for my opinion here! I'n IMHO, I feel that she was not "placeed" there on Feb.9th.. I feel she was placed outside the CB location after all the helicopter seaches, for her and the missing snowmobiler, had subdued.

 

[scandi]

[/B]

BBM the bold by me is the basis for my opinion here! I'n IMHO, I feel that she was not "placeed" there on Feb.9th.. I feel she was placed outside the CB location after all the helicopter seaches, for her and the missing snowmobiler, had subdued.

Hi, Acc to this article he didn't go missing till Wed:

http://www.kpq.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1818

Snipped

" . . . The Chelan County Sheriff's Search and Rescue team and Kittitas County searchers and a number of volunteers are looking for 87 year old Dale Saseen of Cashmere. The avid snowmobiler became seperated from his group Wednesday afternoon while heading towards Cook Canyon area, near the Chelan-Kittitas County border. Officials say Sasseen was prepared for a day trip but he did not have overnight equipment".

 

[hotmadre]

Hi, Acc to this article he didn't go missing till Wed:

http://www.kpq.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1818

Snipped

" . . . The Chelan County Sheriff's Search and Rescue team and Kittitas County searchers and a number of volunteers are looking for 87 year old Dale Saseen of Cashmere. The avid snowmobiler became seperated from his group Wednesday afternoon while heading towards Cook Canyon area, near the Chelan-Kittitas County border. Officials say Sasseen was prepared for a day trip but he did not have overnight equipment".

Dale Saseen DID go missing on Wednesday, 2/10. The search did not go aireborne until Thursday, the 11th. Search and rescue were looking for TWO missing persons at the same time.
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2010/feb/11/separate-searches-go-airborne-rescuers-comb/?online

 

[del rio]

Thanks, So he'd have to drive further into Wenatchee to go across the river then. Pretty risky really with lots of cars on the road that time of day.

Is it common for guys there to wear cowboy boots on a regular basis?

Yes, the perp must have crossed on one of the two bridges in Wenatchee.

If the perp drove directly from PCR to CB, then the perp most likely used the south bridge.

Driving all the way from Wenatchee to CB with an alive hostage would be pretty risky because there are a lot of cars on the road from 4:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. Not to mention LE cars.

Also, the south bridge was undergoing construction during that time (and currently). The bridge construction occurred from 6 or 7 p.m. until 4 or 5 a.m. During those hours, the south bridge was down to one lane. A vehicle attempting to cross the south bridge would likely be stalled for 10 to 20 minutes due to the construction.

I wouldn’t say it’s common for guys to wear cowboy boots.

 

[del rio]

[/B]

BBM the bold by me is the basis for my opinion here! I'n IMHO, I feel that she was not "placeed" there on Feb.9th.. I feel she was placed outside the CB location after all the helicopter seaches, for her and the missing snowmobiler, had subdued.

It's quite possible MC was placed at CB sometime after February 9. I'm torn between the 9th and sometime after the 9th. Based upon the little info we have, it's nearly impossible to say which one with any degree of accuracy.

That said, based upon undisclosed information, I SPECULATE it was the 9th.