GUILTY Wa - Pat Shunn, 45, & Monique Patenaude, 46, Arlington, 11 April 2016 *arrests*

[eucalyptuz]

Steelman,
I think you are right about the posts being used to maneuver the vehicles. I found this video yesterday. It shows how 4x4 posts are used to recover a vehicle that has become high-centered.
[video=youtube;o0m9li98kaw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0m9li98kaw[/video]

 

[MaryLamb]

I looked at the list of supplies that were bought at the hardware store as well, and also what was found at the scene under the tarp. The list of items is bizarre for sure, but it may not be quite as complicated as it seems. i believe part of the problem was the Land Rover. When trying to push it over the bermed edge of the ravine, it either got high centered or the front tires got stuck in some fashion. I think both brothers knew they couldn't just leave it sitting there with the entire rear end exposed to view for all the obvious reasons.

I've done a lot of 4-wheeling through the years, and there are certain things you can use to get a vehicle unstuck and back moving again.

First of all, you need to jack it up or raise it somehow. I believe it was stated that TR's pickup had a winch mounted to the front of it. That maybe where the steel cable and cable clamps came into play.

Secondly, after the vehicles is lifted and the tires are off the ground, you need something to set the tires down on so they don't simply sink back into the same position when the vehicle is lowered. Two 4 x 4 x 8'-0 long wood posts could be used to set the tires down on in order to provide traction, especially in really muddy conditions or if they had been sitting down in deep ruts.

Without having been there to see exactly how the vehicle was stuck, it's hard to say for sure what kind of method they were employing in an attempt to get it broken free and rolling down the hill. Simply looking at the supplies though, I'd say they were planning to hoist something with the winch on his truck and then use the wooden posts as a short runway for traction. Personally, I would have used a high-lift farm jack to get the tires off the ground and then used the 4 x 4 post in the same manner described above. Maybe they didn't have a jack available. It definitely comes across as some sort of a hastily planned hoist system in order to get the Land Rover unstuck.

Whatever their intent was, I don't think it worked for them, because all of the pictures I saw showed the tail end of the Land rover still snagged on the edge of the ravine. Oh, and the rubber gloves.......wouldn't want to leave fingerprints, now would we ?

If I could go to the scene and see exactly how it was stuck, the supplies they left there would probably make a lot more sense.

I think you are right on about the use of the posts, cable and cable ties. The term "galvanized metal clips" is pretty generic and at first I thought they might be the metal fencing clips but the metal clips used on wire cable is more likely.

As horrific as it is to contemplate, if the bodies were dismembered in Reed's bathtub, they could be distributed anywhere in the forest. It's pretty wild country up there with lots of Forest Service and logging roads so finding the bodies might take a long time.

 

[eucalyptuz]

Not Sure if this has been posted, if its redundent my apologies.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2805876-John-Reed-Charging-Documents.html

Thanks! I know a lot of folk were having trouble accessing the Charging Documents with a readable size font!
Here is the same set but for Tony Reed:
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2805877-Tony-Reed-Charging-Documents.html
His long list of addresses in the Arlington area means he will probably have a good knowledge of the area...

 

[chissus]

I think you are right on about the use of the posts, cable and cable ties. The term "galvanized metal clips" is pretty generic and at first I thought they might be the metal fencing clips but the metal clips used on wire cable is more likely.

As horrific as it is to contemplate, if the bodies were dismembered in Reed's bathtub, they could be distributed anywhere in the forest. It's pretty wild country up there with lots of Forest Service and logging roads so finding the bodies might take a long time.

I googled "How to dismember a human" and got lots of websites that I couldn't bring myself to click on. Is it as bad as I think?

 

[joywriter]

<snipped-extra>
I don't know why they wouldn't have, I know they've been searching the river. The pond is fairly small and safe enough to swim in so I assume it's safe for divers, I'm not sure about how deep it is though. I've never actually been to the pond myself but I've seen pictures and heard firsthand stories about it.
There's so much unused land and wooded area out along 530- even being familiar with the area, I wouldn't begin to know where to search.

This is a silly question but would the scent of large amounts of exotic cats previously living on a property throw off search dogs?

Hi fellow newbie!
I agree with you, that they're in the water somewhere. It would throw off the dogs' scent and remove any DNA. I also agree with someone above (sorry, can't remember who) who thought about the ropes and clips. They could have lowered them over a riverbank in a tarp (were all the purchased tarps located?). Or maybe that was the plan before the vehicles were located. The red truck had a winch on it, IIRC. Not sure what the posts were for, except to leverage the vehicle that was hung up when they tried to push it over.

IMO, the blood in the bathtub was from the bloody clothing that they bagged and then left in the yard. Not too smart, these two.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think that, if the murder was premeditated to the point of digging holes in advance, there would have had to be a better plan about what to do with the vehicles too? If it was pre-planned, why all the post-killing trips to and from the hardware store for supplies?

I think JR was more bluster than bite and I think it was the influence of the other brother that escalated this incident. Now, while not trying to use SM/comments as a character reference, quite a few people have piped up to call JR a 'good guy', he was friends with other neighbors in the area, and I think, until the mudslide, things were amicable with the S/Ps.
The brother TR arrives...why? Perhaps to help with the demolition of the Reed property? (I think it's possible that this house had been home to TR in the past too, seeing as it was their parents home for a long time before JR was deeded the property in 2003.)
It's possible the TR had the same kind of emotional attachment to the property as JR, but perhaps less social skills, bringing a malevolent force to those final conflicts.
It's probably a good idea to check the pond that kittenmuse mentions (Welcome BTW! ) if it has not already been dragged. I've been thinking about the hardware store receipt and those items. With the cable, cable clips, tarps etc...Is it possible the bodies were lowered down or hoisted up to conceal them?
Although the couple's destiny is pretty much known, I hate cases where the bodies are never retrieved. It's a level of anguish for the family that stays with them, no matter the outcome for the rest of the case.

I think JR might've been a good guy until you wronged him or got in his way. IIRC, didn't he threaten to kill FEMA staff while they were there too? He sounds like a bully and a hot-head ready to burst to me. His brother sounds like he has the more violent past so maybe put the idea in JR's head to act on his anger or maybe TR did the dirty work.

The odds of two brothers in a family being convicted felons says a lot to me. They both sound like bad apples who would've escalated to murder eventually whether over "land" or some guy insulting them in a bar. JMO.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

If there is no blood/trace evidence in the brother's truck -- the body search will be focused from the cell phone trail that led them to where the vehicles were dumped. (as we know there was blood in their vehicles and I believe in the bed at least of one of them. My hypothesis is the victim's cell phones were in their vehicles, not in their pockets. We always look at bodies of water but assuming they were dismembered (dried blood in the bathtub) the pieces would be harder to locate in the river (which if I remember correctly is fairly swiftly running). My money would be on the river or in the woods somewhere, but we'd also want to clear the ponds.

Unrelated -- we have a longstanding black humor joke that subjects will be found "near water". We've had psychics tell us that about 100 times, and of course in WA you are never far from water of some kind.

Just curious ANZAC, why do you think blood in the bed? Do you think Monique made it into the house and napped and was ambushed? Just wondering your theory...

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Hi fellow newbie!
I agree with you, that they're in the water somewhere. It would throw off the dogs' scent and remove any DNA. I also agree with someone above (sorry, can't remember who) who thought about the ropes and clips. They could have lowered them over a riverbank in a tarp (were all the purchased tarps located?). Or maybe that was the plan before the vehicles were located. The red truck had a winch on it, IIRC. Not sure what the posts were for, except to leverage the vehicle that was hung up when they tried to push it over.

IMO, the blood in the bathtub was from the bloody clothing that they bagged and then left in the yard. Not too smart, these two.

I agree, I think the bathtub blood might be a red herring of sorts and they didn't have time to dismember.

We don't know how big, small or miniscule the sample is from the tub and could be from from an object, clothing or one of the brother's skin if they showered after. I'm very curious to know though.

 

[Lilibet]

Just curious ANZAC, why do you think blood in the bed? Do you think Monique made it into the house and napped and was ambushed? Just wondering your theory...

I think he is referring to blood in the "bed" of the pickup truck. Not sure what you call it in Canada, but it's the flat cargo area with sides behind the cab (driver and passenger area). English words don't always translate between different countries. Don't get me started on our trip to England years ago!

 

[kdg411]

Wow! Not common for this agency to offer reward.

 

[joywriter]

I agree, I think the bathtub blood might be a red herring of sorts and they didn't have time to dismember.

We don't know how big, small or miniscule the sample is from the tub and could be from from an object, clothing or one of the brother's skin if they showered after. I'm very curious to know though.

Plus they would have had to drag the bodies through the house and into the tub. If they were dismembering, I think they would have done that in the backwoods somewhere.

I keep thinking about the poor neighbor who actually talked to them as they were opening the gate. So scary.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think he is referring to blood in the "bed" of the pickup truck. Not sure what you call it in Canada, but it's the flat cargo area with sides behind the cab (driver and passenger area). English words don't always translate between different countries. Don't get me started on our trip to England years ago!

Oh man, I need more coffee. Thanks, I totally didn't make the connection lol!

Yes, we do use bed/flat bed to describe the pick-up area of trucks, maybe it's too early for me to be reading posts

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Plus they would have had to drag the bodies through the house and into the tub. If they were dismembering, I think they would have done that in the backwoods somewhere.

I keep thinking about the poor neighbor who actually talked to them as they were opening the gate. So scary.

Good point for sure. I'm hoping it wasn't so gruesome, it's tragic enough and there's too many gruesome crimes out there already.

 

[steelman]

Hopefully any blood they found in his bathtub came from Reed trying to get himself cleaned up after his little killing spree. I'm not too sure they would have taken the time to try and dismember the bodies. Doing something like that would take a lot of time and be a huge mess.

Tossing them into a hole and covering it up would be much faster and cleaner.

 

[brandi]

Yeah, these nimrods... Murdering psychos? yes, Dismembering psychos? no...

 

[ANZAC]

Just curious ANZAC, why do you think blood in the bed? Do you think Monique made it into the house and napped and was ambushed? Just wondering your theory...

There was blood in the victim's vehicle beds. Presumably they used them to transport the bodies.

 

[kittenmuse]

I haven't been out there since the slide so I'm looking at Google earth and... man oh man are there a lot more small lake/ponds now then there were then! My gut instinct about the pond definitely isn't the super easy psychic call but 100% matter of opinion and heavily influenced by uneasy feelings regarding previous experience around there. A river disposal would be very easy from the location of their property or the empty properties around them- even easier now that the slide messed up the river from how I remembered it! In my opinion they disposed of the bodies fairly quickly and then tried to figure out what to do with the vehicles. If they used the river it'd be easy to weigh the bodies down and get the hell out of the area before they surfaced somewhere. If they used the woods... That's beyond a lot of acreage to cover with search teams.
As morbid as it is, now that the weather is much nicer than it has been in a while I feel like some unsuspecting swimmer or beach goer is going to find something they wish they didn't.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

There was blood in the victim's vehicle beds. Presumably they used them to transport the bodies.

Yes someone kindly pointed out you were referring to the vehicle bed, I had read it quickly and read it as a sleeping bed in their home so was curious.

 

[brandi]

There have been observations of JReed saying he would "kill someone an dump them in the treeline above the slide and they would never be found"

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

I agree, I think the bathtub blood might be a red herring of sorts and they didn't have time to dismember.

We don't know how big, small or miniscule the sample is from the tub and could be from from an object, clothing or one of the brother's skin if they showered after. I'm very curious to know though.

Given the background of both Reeds, I reckon they'd know how to dismember an animal quickly and efficiently, Can't imagine it would be that hard to apply to a human body, it's just a matter of knowing your way around joints.