GUILTY Wa - Pat Shunn, 45, & Monique Patenaude, 46, Arlington, 11 April 2016 *arrests*

[steelman]

These guys are clearly not too bright, and apparently ignorant to all of the technology LE can access to find them. I don't believe it will be long before they are found. What disturbs me is that they have "shoot out with LE " written all over them.

If the Mexican government catches these two with an arsenal of weapons, they're going to have a whole new set of problems to deal with besides a murder charge.

Hopefully the U.S. Marshals will track them down and let the mexican authorities make the arrest. American and Mexican law enforcement usually work together pretty well for the most part........it's only when the respective governments step in that things get sticky and complicated.

 

[eucalyptuz]

Ellensburg homes, storage units searched in hunt for fugitive brothers' alleged victims

Detectives investigating the presumed slayings of a missing Arlington couple searched several properties in Ellensburg on Wednesday, including the home of one of two fugitive brothers wanted in the couple’s deaths.
Working with Ellensburg police, Snohomish County Sheriff’s detectives searched the home of the brothers’ parents in the 600 block of East Tacoma Avenue, as well as two storage units and the home of Tony C. Reed.

http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/cr...le_3e29baea-07fe-11e6-b66b-f32d4d0fe1ac.html?

It doesn't make sense that the brothers would dispose of the cars, wait 2 days and then transport bodies to Ellensburg a few hours away...a bit risky, especially with all that undeveloped land right there in Oso...I was thinking shallow grave, fire pit or even an unused well or septic tank...
Maybe LE think the bodies were moved to Ellensburg just after the disappearance, in that first 24 hours before the alarm was raised?

 

[Snoopster]

Just checking in briefly.

No news?? :dunno:

 

[carbuff]

Ellensburg homes, storage units searched in hunt for fugitive brothers' alleged victims

http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/cr...le_3e29baea-07fe-11e6-b66b-f32d4d0fe1ac.html?

It doesn't make sense that the brothers would dispose of the cars, wait 2 days and then transport bodies to Ellensburg a few hours away...a bit risky, especially with all that undeveloped land right there in Oso...I was thinking shallow grave, fire pit or even an unused well or septic tank...
Maybe LE think the bodies were moved to Ellensburg just after the disappearance, in that first 24 hours before the alarm was raised?

There's a lot about this case that doesn't make sense.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I was originally thinking they may have been shot from afar as Monique and Pat drove up to their home in the vehicles.

Now today after thinking more, this crime was very personal. JR seemed to have more of a beef with Monique according to the harassment claims and she would have been the first home. I think JR very much wanted Monique to know it was him that was going to "win" by killing her and I'm theorizing that he maybe shot her once to immobilize her but then went up close and personal for a final confrontation so she could see his face and used that pistol on her. Maybe JR had a real problem with a woman having an opinion and he had a disdain for Monique more than Pat.

I don't see JR/TR shooting from afar without at least one of the couple knowing who was doing this to them. I feel like TR/JR wanted the victims to see "their justice".

JMO, just a theory.

 

[ANZAC]

Ellensburg homes, storage units searched in hunt for fugitive brothers' alleged victims

http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/cr...le_3e29baea-07fe-11e6-b66b-f32d4d0fe1ac.html?

It doesn't make sense that the brothers would dispose of the cars, wait 2 days and then transport bodies to Ellensburg a few hours away...a bit risky, especially with all that undeveloped land right there in Oso...I was thinking shallow grave, fire pit or even an unused well or septic tank...
Maybe LE think the bodies were moved to Ellensburg just after the disappearance, in that first 24 hours before the alarm was raised?

This makes sense. A lot of time we need to clear locations even though we think they're less likely. Otherwise at some trial somewhere a defense lawyer will say "why didn't you search the parent's house/storage unit?" etc.

So sometimes it is about proving that something ISN'T somewhere.

 

[brandi]

*Ulp*
Memorial for Monique andPat
http://q13fox.com/2016/04/21/missing-arlington-couple-honored-at-memorial-in-oso/

 

[kittenmuse]

Long time lurker but the closeness of this case caused me to finally get an account. I was born and raised in Arlington and spent a lot of time out nearby to the road in question on the riverbanks in Oso before relocating a few years ago. This road has had more than its fair share of tragedy in the past few years, (to the point where there is a darkly joking rumor that it's cursed), including the death of one of the Dix sons who happened to be a dear friend of mine. Because of this, I know that A. The Dix family accepted the buy out recently and have already left their home/property (empty, I assume, as the river was starting to cause damage) and B. there is an accessible logging road nearby that has access to a pond/small lake that you'd be familiar with if you were familiar with that road (say... living there for 18 years). A deep feeling in my gut that I can't shake tells me that if the Shunns are not found on their property or in Eastern WA, they are somewhere up that road or in the water. The Stilly is also deep and swift from all the rain we've had this year- not hard to have a body carried away or hidden until the water levels receed.

I'm sorry if any of this isn't allowed, I read the rules before posting and I think it's all kosher information to give!

 

[Cricket99]

This makes sense. A lot of time we need to clear locations even though we think they're less likely. Otherwise at some trial somewhere a defense lawyer will say "why didn't you search the parent's house/storage unit?" etc.

So sometimes it is about proving that something ISN'T somewhere.

Thank you for your much appreciated insight ANZAC. :smile:

 

[LaborDayRN]

Long time lurker but the closeness of this case caused me to finally get an account. I was born and raised in Arlington and spent a lot of time out nearby to the road in question on the riverbanks in Oso before relocating a few years ago. This road has had more than its fair share of tragedy in the past few years, (to the point where there is a darkly joking rumor that it's cursed), including the death of one of the Dix sons who happened to be a dear friend of mine. Because of this, I know that A. The Dix family accepted the buy out recently and have already left their home/property (empty, I assume, as the river was starting to cause damage) and B. there is an accessible logging road nearby that has access to a pond/small lake that you'd be familiar with if you were familiar with that road (say... living there for 18 years). A deep feeling in my gut that I can't shake tells me that if the Shunns are not found on their property or in Eastern WA, they are somewhere up that road or in the water. The Stilly is also deep and swift from all the rain we've had this year- not hard to have a body carried away or hidden until the water levels receed.

I'm sorry if any of this isn't allowed, I read the rules before posting and I think it's all kosher information to give!

Welcome kittenmuse! I'm glad you decided to post. Interesting about logging road. I hope LE have searched the area. Is the pond small enough to drain or safe enough for divers?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Long time lurker but the closeness of this case caused me to finally get an account. I was born and raised in Arlington and spent a lot of time out nearby to the road in question on the riverbanks in Oso before relocating a few years ago. This road has had more than its fair share of tragedy in the past few years, (to the point where there is a darkly joking rumor that it's cursed), including the death of one of the Dix sons who happened to be a dear friend of mine. Because of this, I know that A. The Dix family accepted the buy out recently and have already left their home/property (empty, I assume, as the river was starting to cause damage) and B. there is an accessible logging road nearby that has access to a pond/small lake that you'd be familiar with if you were familiar with that road (say... living there for 18 years). A deep feeling in my gut that I can't shake tells me that if the Shunns are not found on their property or in Eastern WA, they are somewhere up that road or in the water. The Stilly is also deep and swift from all the rain we've had this year- not hard to have a body carried away or hidden until the water levels receed.

I'm sorry if any of this isn't allowed, I read the rules before posting and I think it's all kosher information to give!

It's always interesting to hear from locals or those who know the areas of the stories on the threads. Very interesting, I bet JR knows every nook and cranny of that area and disposed of them there or very close by like you say.

 

[kittenmuse]

Edit: sorry, I thought I clicked the quote button.. Not used to actually posting on the forums yet! So, in response to whoever asked me about the pond:

I don't know why they wouldn't have, I know they've been searching the river. The pond is fairly small and safe enough to swim in so I assume it's safe for divers, I'm not sure about how deep it is though. I've never actually been to the pond myself but I've seen pictures and heard firsthand stories about it.
There's so much unused land and wooded area out along 530- even being familiar with the area, I wouldn't begin to know where to search.

This is a silly question but would the scent of large amounts of exotic cats previously living on a property throw off search dogs?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I thought this murder happened because maybe JR was emotional about losing his land/house but I think he just didn't like being told what to do, doesn't like following rules and this was a power trip.

If it was really about the land, then why take the buyout if it meant so much to him? It sounds like he wanted his cake and to eat it too - take the buyout, get a pocket full of cash but still live there and live by "his" own rules. Then he gets challenged, a power struggle ensues, crunch-time comes with the court date coming up and he has to show M&P who's really boss, who will call the shots with an "I'll show them" mentality.

His anger and ego were the issue not the land, JMO.

 

[steelman]

I think they are either buried or dumped within a mile or two of their property. Reason being, the cellphone tracking as described in the charging documents.
The cellphone records showed the two individual phones never left the area until early the next morning around 3:30 a.m.. The Reeds would have wanted to get the victims hidden away as quickly as possible, and apparently did. At 4:30 pm, the couples' friends showed up at their house and saw nothing amiss and nothing suspicious. They said that both vehicles were gone at that time.

The longer the victims laid in the back of the SUV's, the higher the chance that the crime would possibly be discovered. I don't think the Reeds would have simply moved at a leisurely pace , I think they would've hustled to get everything cleaned up and hidden from sight. Doing things quickly means doing things close by, once again, the cellphones weren't shown to have left the area that afternoon.

The most disturbing scenario to me is one where this was so premeditated, that a grave was dug and prepared in advance. Once the victims were dropped in there, all the brothers had to do was fill it in with dirt and cover over it with vegetation and branches. If done properly, it would be almost impossible to to discern if the ground had been disturbed with the naked eye.

That is a big part of the reason why I think that they are going to have to bring in the best and most reliable cadaver dogs they can find. Even then it might be a huge challenge, because only God knows how deep that hole may have been dug. The deeper the grave, the less chances the dogs will be able to pick up a scent coming from underneath the ground surface. Another obstacle is that the victims were more than likely moved in the SUV to the disposal location, resulting in virtually no scent trail for the dogs to follow. That would include the brothers scents as well, but of course theirs would be much more prevalent the closer they got to the disposal location.

Hiding the bodies was the easy part, but hiding a #5000 SUV isn't so easy, not to mention two of them. It's a little tough to bury one of those without it being pretty obvious. They needed to get the SUV's out of the area though, because it was just a matter of time before a nosy neighbor came poking around. That was done in the early morning hours the next morning, and apparently the cellphones were still laying in both vehicles the entire time. I guess the brothers must have decided to do a little cleaning job before they decided to try and roll the SUV's down to the bottom of the hill, at which time both phones were confiscated. The fact that both phones were on and pinging the entire journey appears to have been a huge oversight by these two half-wits.

I believe the entire plot was to make it appear that this couple willingly left and went somewhere on their own accord. The better the vehicles were hidden, the more likely it would work.

 

[krig101]

Welcome Kittenmuse! Great first post. Very insightful.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[eucalyptuz]

I think that, if the murder was premeditated to the point of digging holes in advance, there would have had to be a better plan about what to do with the vehicles too? If it was pre-planned, why all the post-killing trips to and from the hardware store for supplies?

I think JR was more bluster than bite and I think it was the influence of the other brother that escalated this incident. Now, while not trying to use SM/comments as a character reference, quite a few people have piped up to call JR a 'good guy', he was friends with other neighbors in the area, and I think, until the mudslide, things were amicable with the S/Ps.
The brother TR arrives...why? Perhaps to help with the demolition of the Reed property? (I think it's possible that this house had been home to TR in the past too, seeing as it was their parents home for a long time before JR was deeded the property in 2003.)
It's possible the TR had the same kind of emotional attachment to the property as JR, but perhaps less social skills, bringing a malevolent force to those final conflicts.
It's probably a good idea to check the pond that kittenmuse mentions (Welcome BTW! ) if it has not already been dragged. I've been thinking about the hardware store receipt and those items. With the cable, cable clips, tarps etc...Is it possible the bodies were lowered down or hoisted up to conceal them?
Although the couple's destiny is pretty much known, I hate cases where the bodies are never retrieved. It's a level of anguish for the family that stays with them, no matter the outcome for the rest of the case.

 

[ANZAC]

If there is no blood/trace evidence in the brother's truck -- the body search will be focused from the cell phone trail that led them to where the vehicles were dumped. (as we know there was blood in their vehicles and I believe in the bed at least of one of them. My hypothesis is the victim's cell phones were in their vehicles, not in their pockets. We always look at bodies of water but assuming they were dismembered (dried blood in the bathtub) the pieces would be harder to locate in the river (which if I remember correctly is fairly swiftly running). My money would be on the river or in the woods somewhere, but we'd also want to clear the ponds.

Unrelated -- we have a longstanding black humor joke that subjects will be found "near water". We've had psychics tell us that about 100 times, and of course in WA you are never far from water of some kind.

 

[ANZAC]

That is a big part of the reason why I think that they are going to have to bring in the best and most reliable cadaver dogs they can find. Even then it might be a huge challenge, because only God knows how deep that hole may have been dug. The deeper the grave, the less chances the dogs will be able to pick up a scent coming from underneath the ground surface. Another obstacle is that the victims were more than likely moved in the SUV to the disposal location, resulting in virtually no scent trail for the dogs to follow. That would include the brothers scents as well, but of course theirs would be much more prevalent the closer they got to the disposal location.

I am sure they have had the SAR HRD dogs search this entire time. It takes a lot of time to cover a large area of ground.

The scents of other humans are not an issue, because HRD dogs are trained to find decaying flesh. The "sweet spot" is about 1-4 weeks of decomp. Immediately after death is more difficult. The dogs get trained both with "real" remains (handled in accordance with state law which is very strict) and analog training material.

Depth is not as big of an issue as you would think. I'm not going to cover how best to hide bodies. One issue though is wind, and the lay of the ground. The scent can move, can pool etc. Imagine it is like a low fog on the ground you can't see.

One other thing we do (I'm not a dog handler so this is just my observation) is when we find someone deceased, we take the time to let all of the dogs "find" the subject and reward them. It is great training and helps refine their skills. The main skill of the handler is knowing the dog well enough to know the even small signals the dog gives off. The dogs will alert when they are very sure but many times as they cross the scent, they may just turn their heads or whatever.

What I haven't figure out yet are the fence posts and the galvanized wire ties.

 

[Onebest]

Not Sure if this has been posted, if its redundent my apologies.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2805876-John-Reed-Charging-Documents.html

 

[steelman]

I think that, if the murder was premeditated to the point of digging holes in advance, there would have had to be a better plan about what to do with the vehicles too? If it was pre-planned, why all the post-killing trips to and from the hardware store for supplies?

I think JR was more bluster than bite and I think it was the influence of the other brother that escalated this incident. Now, while not trying to use SM/comments as a character reference, quite a few people have piped up to call JR a 'good guy', he was friends with other neighbors in the area, and I think, until the mudslide, things were amicable with the S/Ps.
The brother TR arrives...why? Perhaps to help with the demolition of the Reed property? (I think it's possible that this house had been home to TR in the past too, seeing as it was their parents home for a long time before JR was deeded the property in 2003.)
It's possible the TR had the same kind of emotional attachment to the property as JR, but perhaps less social skills, bringing a malevolent force to those final conflicts.
It's probably a good idea to check the pond that kittenmuse mentions (Welcome BTW! ) if it has not already been dragged. I've been thinking about the hardware store receipt and those items. With the cable, cable clips, tarps etc...Is it possible the bodies were lowered down or hoisted up to conceal them?
Although the couple's destiny is pretty much known, I hate cases where the bodies are never retrieved. It's a level of anguish for the family that stays with them, no matter the outcome for the rest of the case.

I looked at the list of supplies that were bought at the hardware store as well, and also what was found at the scene under the tarp. The list of items is bizarre for sure, but it may not be quite as complicated as it seems. I believe part of the problem was the Land Rover. When trying to push it over the bermed edge of the ravine, it either got high centered or the front tires got stuck in some fashion. I think both brothers knew they couldn't just leave it sitting there with the entire rear end exposed to view for all the obvious reasons.

I've done a lot of 4-wheeling through the years, and there are certain things you can use to get a vehicle unstuck and back moving again.

First of all, you need to jack it up or raise it somehow. I believe it was stated that TR's pickup had a winch mounted to the front of it. That may be where the steel cable and cable clamps came into play.

Secondly, after the vehicles is lifted and the tires are off the ground, you need something to set the tires down on so they don't simply sink back into the same position when the vehicle is lowered. Two 4 x 4 x 8'-0 long wood posts could be used to set the tires down on in order to provide traction, especially in really muddy conditions or if they had been sitting down in deep ruts.

Without having been there to see exactly how the vehicle was stuck, it's hard to say for sure what kind of method they were employing in an attempt to get it broken free and rolling down the hill. Simply looking at the supplies though, I'd say they were planning to hoist the rear of the SUV with the winch on his truck and then use the wooden posts as a short runway for traction, for either the front or rear tires. Personally, I would have used a high-lift farm jack to get the tires off the ground and then used the 4 x 4 post in the same manner described above. Maybe they didn't have a jack available. It definitely comes across as some sort of a hastily planned hoist system in order to get the Land Rover unstuck.

Whatever their intent was, I don't think it worked for them, because all of the pictures I saw showed the tail end of the Land rover still snagged on the edge of the ravine. Oh, and the rubber gloves.......wouldn't want to leave fingerprints, now would we ?

If I could go to the scene and see exactly how it was stuck and what rigging was left behind, the supplies they left there would probably make a lot more sense.
They were attempting to get that Land Rover completely concealed, and apparently it didn't work too well. If the Land Rover had gone roaring down the side of the hill as planned, there's a chance that neither one of those two vehicles would've still been found.