WA WA - Samantha Sayers, 28, Vesper Peak, North Cascades, 1 August 2018

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zecats said:
Which scenario?
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I believe that was in reference to being abducted near the trailhead. I cannot fully agree with this idea. If a person is already stuffed in your vehicle how hard would it be to throw a hat and a couple of hiking poles in the back and drive off?
 
I feel awful that she has not been found yet. Although I definitely think it is possible and even likely that she had some sort of fall or accident on the mountain and just hasn't been found yet, I agree that IMO I wouldn't rule out foul play or some other scenario. I don't think abductions always leave signs of a struggle behind. We just had the Mollie Tibbetts murder where she was abducted from a rural road and not a sign was left behind. And I always think of Kelsey Smith abducted from a busy Target parking lot in broad daylight and the only one who saw anything was CCTV.

Someone earlier mentioned that in the video that showed Sam, it appeared she was with a person or persons hiking up, and I tended to agree. As a hiker myself, it's not unusual to cross paths with total strangers on the trail and start hiking together. Have those people come forward at all, I wonder, saying that they saw her that day? If they haven't, it doesn't necessarily mean they are guilty of anything--they may not even be local and may have no idea of this story (the only place I have read about Sam is on WS!) But if they were the last people to see her....I would just be interested in what they had to say.
 
sasha17 said:
I don't know the rules or logistics around getting a Crime Stoppers flyer (does it require an active criminal case be open by authorities?) but even if the authorities said this was just a missing hiker and not a criminal investigation, I don't think that would prevent the family from hiring a PI, would it? Maybe one of our legal experts here can weigh in on this topic (@Alethea?). AFAIK, the family has stuck completely with the mountain search plans and hasn't said anything about hiring a PI to look into other possibilities themselves.
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The family can hire a PI whether it’s criminal or not. In fact, they probably should and have indicated that they are looking into the possibilities of doing so.

Crime stoppers usually requires a criminal case number, because rewards for information are traced through a system. This is likely what is stopping them from being able to ask them for help. If there isn’t a criminal case, then they can’t give them Crime stoppers funds.

I don’t think this is the police’s fault. They have no evidence of anything yet other than she was last seen on the mountain. To suddenly declare a criminal case instead of a missing persons case would be jumping the gun dramatically.

I still think the chances of abduction are small, but not nonexistent. They found her car in working order and she’s not stuffed in her trunk. No one saw her at the trail head and she didn’t sign out, despite signing in.

The professional trackers they had didn’t find a trace of anything at all. Not even a struggle. True it wouldn’t take much to throw someone’s poles in a trunk, but to cover footprints or scuff marks would be a big task for anyone.
 
MntnHiker said:
I feel awful that she has not been found yet. Although I definitely think it is possible and even likely that she had some sort of fall or accident on the mountain and just hasn't been found yet, I agree that IMO I wouldn't rule out foul play or some other scenario. I don't think abductions always leave signs of a struggle behind. We just had the Mollie Tibbetts murder where she was abducted from a rural road and not a sign was left behind. And I always think of Kelsey Smith abducted from a busy Target parking lot in broad daylight and the only one who saw anything was CCTV.

Someone earlier mentioned that in the video that showed Sam, it appeared she was with a person or persons hiking up, and I tended to agree. As a hiker myself, it's not unusual to cross paths with total strangers on the trail and start hiking together. Have those people come forward at all, I wonder, saying that they saw her that day? If they haven't, it doesn't necessarily mean they are guilty of anything--they may not even be local and may have no idea of this story (the only place I have read about Sam is on WS!) But if they were the last people to see her....I would just be interested in what they had to say.
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They weren’t the last people to see her. There were rock climbers summiting the north face of Vesper at around 2:45 pm that talked to her for about 10 minutes. There was also an older male hiker who saw her up there at that time walking towards the southeast side of the summit. It seems there were quite a few people up there. That’s the thing. None of them ever saw her go down.

“A YMCA group saw her going up the trail that Wednesday morning. A small rock climbing group bumped into her just before 3 p.m. at the summit. A man eating lunch at the top noticed Sayers, too. He did not eat with her, as the sheriff’s office had reported earlier, O’Keefe clarified Friday. That witness has been working with deputies to pinpoint her last known movement, possibly to the southeast.”

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/search-for-missing-hiker-nears-3-weeks-as-family-clings-to-hope/
 
Suglo said:
They weren’t the last people to see her. There were rock climbers summiting the north face of Vesper at around 2:45 pm that talked to her for about 10 minutes. There was also an older male hiker who saw her up there at that time walking towards the southeast side of the summit. It seems there were quite a few people up there. That’s the thing. None of them ever saw her go down.

“A YMCA group saw her going up the trail that Wednesday morning. A small rock climbing group bumped into her just before 3 p.m. at the summit. A man eating lunch at the top noticed Sayers, too. He did not eat with her, as the sheriff’s office had reported earlier, O’Keefe clarified Friday. That witness has been working with deputies to pinpoint her last known movement, possibly to the southeast.”

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/search-for-missing-hiker-nears-3-weeks-as-family-clings-to-hope/
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If she was seen at the summit at 3:00PM and she knew she had to be at the parking lot by 5:00PM in order to make the 6:00PM scheduled phone call, it makes absolutely no sense why she would be heading down to the south, in the opposite direction of her car. If she'd gotten up there earlier in the day and wanted to poke around for awhile on some other trails before heading back, that might make sense but she wouldn't have had time for that by then. Baffling.
 
sasha17 said:
If she was seen at the summit at 3:00PM and she knew she had to be at the parking lot by 5:00PM in order to make the 6:00PM scheduled phone call, it makes absolutely no sense why she would be heading down to the south, in the opposite direction of her car. If she'd gotten up there earlier in the day and wanted to poke around for awhile on some other trails before heading back, that might make sense but she wouldn't have had time for that by then. Baffling.
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Agreed. I do wonder though if she was a person who showed up early or on time to things or was perpetually late.
 
Marknatm said:
I believe that was in reference to being abducted near the trailhead. I cannot fully agree with this idea. If a person is already stuffed in your vehicle how hard would it be to throw a hat and a couple of hiking poles in the back and drive off?
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What if something was used to subdue such as chloroform?
Someone could have been lurking and came up from behind and put it over her nose/mouth and once subdued, put her stuff in the back and rode off, in a matter of minutes.
I am not saying that this for certain happened, she could've just as easily fell and her body is hidden, I just feel like there should be an exploration of other possibilities off the mountain.
 
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Sonji727 said:
What if something was used to subdue such as chloroform?
Someone could have been lurking and came up from behind and put it over her nose/mouth and once subdued, put her stuff in the back and rode off, in a matter of minutes.
I am not saying that this for certain happened, she could've just as easily fell and her body is hidden, I just feel like there should be an exploration of other possibilities off the mountain.
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I was thinking if she did eventually make it back to her car and someone with bad plans asked her for help, she probably would have just tried to help. Ted Bundy got a lot of his victims that way. In WA, no less.
 
Hate to think of this before bed, but she didn't even have to be anywhere near her car to be abducted, or even be taken off the mountain. If there was a human predator up there, they could have grabbed her and hidden her anywhere, or pushed her, or any number of bad alternatives. It would explain why absolutely no trace has been found. I prefer to think there is hope she is alive. But knowing all of the alternative scenarios and the time she has been missing, it gets hard to think that is going to happen. Hope she is not suffering, either way.
 
Also, about scuffs and footprints. I just don't know how much of that would have been in tact by the time tracking professionals were called in and due to the fact that KD and eventually LE were walking through that area when it was still dark. I don't know how well preserved the "scene" was since it wasn't being treated as a crime. There had to have been a multitude of footprints just from other visitors, other tire tracks, Etc. There was even a boot print in the beginning that they thought was Sam's but it turned out that it wasn't. Not sure who's that was.

I also don't care for KDs timeline. If he got to the mountain at 10 p.m., a full 4 hours after he was supposed to hear from Sam, and she still had not been answering the phone and her car was there at the trailhead, what would make him think that a mile walk into the wilderness with a flashlight would be the best idea instead of calling LE right then. Then to not call until 1:30am? <modsnipped against TOS>. I understand people act differently under stress and in situations such as this.
 
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I feel like his timeline is reasonable. If I were supposed to receive a call from my husband around a certain time, I’d think of a million scenarios before I’d call in law enforcement. Dead battery, broken down car, lost track of time etc etc. even arrested, hospital, etc I’d give it several hours to play out before I called it in.
 
Michellesv44 said:
I feel like his timeline is reasonable. If I were supposed to receive a call from my husband around a certain time, I’d think of a million scenarios before I’d call in law enforcement. Dead battery, broken down car, lost track of time etc etc. even arrested, hospital, etc I’d give it several hours to play out before I called it in.
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I can understand everyone doesn't react in the same fashion, but I am under the impression when he arrived he was able to tell that her car was functional from the very beginning, possibly had a second key? It would make sense to think that maybe her phone battery died but in that case I would still be wondering why her phone being dead has now led to me standing at the trailhead at 10 p.m. and her nowhere in sight. And I don't think it would be reasonable to assume that Sam lost track of time to the tune of 10 p.m. knowing he is waiting on her call.
I don't think I would have called LE right away, but after seeing her car and calling out for her, in addition to calling her phone, I would know that time is of the essence if an emergency did strike and that LE should be called fairly soon thereafter. Also if there was a possibility of her being arrested or in an accident/hospital you would think that LE would be able to tell you that and put your mind at ease so calling them first still comes to mind even considering any of those possibilities.
If her car wasn't there then that creates so many alternate scenarios, but the fact that it was would automatically suggest to me that something just isn't right.
 
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sasha17 said:
If she was seen at the summit at 3:00PM and she knew she had to be at the parking lot by 5:00PM in order to make the 6:00PM scheduled phone call, it makes absolutely no sense why she would be heading down to the south, in the opposite direction of her car. If she'd gotten up there earlier in the day and wanted to poke around for awhile on some other trails before heading back, that might make sense but she wouldn't have had time for that by then. Baffling.
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I've thought more than once that maybe she had to relieve herself after eating her lunch. The video that was posted sure didn't show any private areas...I wonder if she was headed the opposite way than the rest of the hikers would go in order to find some privacy, and then slipped and fell? It doesn't explain why the dogs couldn't track her though...or why they haven't found her with so much effort put into searching the top of the mountain.
 
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Sonji727 said:
Also, about scuffs and footprints. I just don't know how much of that would have been in tact by the time tracking professionals were called in and due to the fact that KD and eventually LE were walking through that area when it was still dark. I don't know how well preserved the "scene" was since it wasn't being treated as a crime. There had to have been a multitude of footprints just from other visitors, other tire tracks, Etc. There was even a boot print in the beginning that they thought was Sam's but it turned out that it wasn't. Not sure who's that was.

I also don't care for KDs timeline. If he got to the mountain at 10 p.m., a full 4 hours after he was supposed to hear from Sam, and she still had not been answering the phone and her car was there at the trailhead, what would make him think that a mile walk into the wilderness with a flashlight would be the best idea instead of calling LE right then. Then to not call until 1:30am? <modsnipped> I understand people act differently under stress and in situations such as this.
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From day one I have wondered about KD. We cannot question him on here as it is against TOS as he has been cleared by LE.
 
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Jilly56 said:
I've thought more than once that maybe she had to relieve herself after eating her lunch. The video that was posted sure didn't show any private areas...I wonder if she was headed the opposite way than the rest of the hikers would go in order to find some privacy, and then slipped and fell? It doesn't explain why the dogs couldn't track her though...or why they haven't found her with so much effort put into searching the top of the mountain.
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The dogs did pick up her scent. Kevin Dares posted on August 20th to the official FB page the following:
“We had a solid day Saturday with the dogs scenting hard on the southern slope.”
I also think she could have gone in that direction to find privacy and/or take a selfie before heading down.
 
Suglo said:
The dogs did pick up her scent. Kevin Dares posted on August 20th to the official FB page the following:
“We had a solid day Saturday with the dogs scenting hard on the southern slope.”
I also think she could have gone in that direction to find privacy and/or take a selfie before heading down.
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Agree. Agree. Agree. Who wants to spend hours summiting and not explore a bit. Or rest. And also have to relieve oneself. (People on top same time as she was does not offer any privacy.) And, I believe she was prone to selfies as noted by photos on SM?
 
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