WA WA - Samantha Sayers, 28, Vesper Peak, North Cascades, 1 August 2018

[moonriverfarm]

It took ten months to find this downed plane. Sam is much smaller.
Remains found at crash site - BC News

 

[Koshka]

This is my point here. It's been one month and eleven days, that is not a lot of searching. That is not a lot of sleuthing. There was very little community involvement in Stephanie's case because SM was not the prominent vehicle it is now. On SM, people post lost pets, lost children, lost seniors, point out crimes in their communities. It's just another tool for solving the issues we face. Like any tool for solving cases, it has it's limits, but used with other resources it obviously gets the word out quickly and focuses on the issue. If the online community is tapped of course there will be more community involvement. I wish it had been the case five years ago, but it doesn't negate the process now. Who knows, it might contribute to finding Stephanie yet.

Bbm. Stephanie disappeared in 2013. SM was just as active then as it is in 2018. Please do read her thread here, you'll find that Lillibet was a leading force in keeping her story alive. She knows far better than anyone else here the length of the actual search.

 

[sasha17]

There's a new Word document in the Facebook group this morning with a detailed description of the jobs/roles for volunteers that they're looking for. It gives some insight into their plan and the details of their search operation.

 

[Mauig’ma]

I hope if I ever get lost in the mountains (which could happen), nobody risks their life or health trying to find me after it's clear I'm no longer among the living. I hope my family will mourn me and then get on with their lives.

I know other people feel differently. I'm only talking about myself.

Imo, you say that now until it’s you or one of your children out there. You never should say what you think you would do. Not unless you been there, done that already. Just when you think you know how you’ll react, may just end up being the opposite once you’re faced with it. Again, moo

 

[Lilibet]

Bbm. Stephanie disappeared in 2013. SM was just as active then as it is in 2018. Please do read her thread here, you'll find that Lillibet was a leading force in keeping her story alive. She knows far better than anyone else here the length of the actual search.

OT—Thanks Koshka. You’re right that SM was used, again thanks to a WSer. Stephanie’s case is a good illustration of the disparity of interest and community effort when people go missing. There were many factors at play that aren’t in Sam’s case, thankfully. Those issues in Steph’s and so many other cases could probably fill a whole thread! It’s not “fair” but it’s reality. I do applaud Sam’s loved ones for their efforts and I hope her Mom can find peace whatever the outcome.

 

[Lilibet]

Imo, you say that now until it’s you or one of your children out there. You never should say what you think you would do. Not unless you been there, done that already. Just when you think you know how you’ll react, may just end up being the opposite once you’re faced with it. Again, moo

I would say that when someone speaks strictly for themselves about their wishes if they are lost and presumed dead in the wilderness, it’s no different than filling out an advanced directive for end-of-life instructions or even a DNR (do not resuscitate order). Deciding ahead of time how much life-saving effort you want when you are at death’s door and not able to speak for yourself is generally viewed as a kindness to loved ones who would be forced to make these hard decisions otherwise. But, of course, no one forces anyone to fill out an advance directive or make other decisions ahead of time. It’s a personal decision, not to be criticized.
JMO

 

[Mauig’ma]

I would say that when someone speaks strictly for themselves about their wishes if they are lost and presumed dead in the wilderness, it’s no different than filling out an advanced directive for end-of-life instructions or even a DNR (do not resuscitate order). Deciding ahead of time how much life-saving effort you want when you are at death’s door and not able to speak for yourself is generally viewed as a kindness to loved ones who would be forced to make these hard decisions otherwise. But, of course, no one forces anyone to fill out an advance directive or make other decisions ahead of time. It’s a personal decision, not to be criticized.
JMO

I don’t mean to criticize. It’s just that being in health care the past 27 yrs along with hospice, I deal with a lot of health directives. And it seems more than not, people will change their minds once they are faced with a difficult situation. Just recently a guy that was adamant in having a dnr. Stating over and over his final wishes. That was until he was being transferred via life flight. Then he screamed “hook me up in any hole you can find! Screw my dnr! Do what you can to save me!” Lol. Not critiquing, just stating experience

 

[SoVeryMe]

New member here and I’ve been following this story since the beginning. I’ll admit I was swept up in the romantic notion that Samantha would be found alive wandering the wilderness and everyone would live happily ever after. Her mom is just so convinced it’s hard not to be hopeful for a story book ending. Rationally, it’s probably quite likely that Sam had a sudden tragic accident of some sort and I hope for her loved ones sakes they are able to recover her body and have closure and clarity on what happened that day on the mountain. I had a friend who was once descending down a snowfield, slipped and slid into a 12 inch wide icy moat. He was in a group so witnesses saw what happened and while he was successfully rescued, he later died due to hypothermia from being in the freezing water for so long. If he hadn’t been in a group, he would’ve been a missing hiker.....all gear he had with and on him slid into the crevasse with him. I have no idea what the conditions and or terrain is like where Sam went missing but, a sudden slip or fall could potentially leave no obvious evidence behind.

 

[sasha17]

Kevin just posted in the Facebook group that they're cancelling the offer of a $20,000 reward as they're concerned it will "tempt untrained parties" into searching for Sam.

 

[Phantasma2624]

When someone falls in wilderness areas, it's not like they tumble off the side of a building. Often snow, dirt, scree (rocks) will either fall with the person or come loose as the person slides/falls down. A person can be partially or completely covered with debris. They can slide under rocks and shrubs in steep and inaccessible areas. It can snow, hail and rain, or sunny warm weather can spark snowmelt and snow slides. It's easy for someone to be lost without a trace due to a fall in mountainous terrain. I can't be 100% certain, but I suspect this is what happened to Sam, and I'm sorry that it happened.

Exactly. I suspect that this is what happened to Samantha. This makes sense especially when you consider that the foliage is still very lush up in the mountain, and could easily be hiding a body. Not to mention what could have happened if animals also got there first. If they don't find anything in the next few weeks, I would think that after the snow melts in the spring would be the best chance. The foliage would be gone, and it would allow for a clearer view of the terrain.

Given that none of Samantha's belongings have been found, whatever happened must have been quite sudden as you mention, likely taking her and all of her gear with her.

I know it isn't mentioned often, but abduction is a possibility that seems to be low on the priority list. I think somebody mentioned that Sam would be capable of putting up a good fight or be vocal. Vesper trail looked busy, but I doubt it would be classified as busy compared to other hiking paths. It's reminiscent of the case of Meredith Emerson being abducted by Gary Hilton. Meredith had extensive martial arts training, but it didn't stop Hilton from successfully taking her while on a hike in 2008 on Blood Mountain (Georgia). Hilton used hiking trails in the southeast to find his victims. He was caught in 2008 and is on death row in Florida.

I don't think that anything has been ruled out by anyone. It's just that there is no evidence (yet?) of any sort of foul play. By all accounts, she went up into the mountain alone, and never came back down the trail. We know she was spotted, but other than that, it's just all us hypothesizing. I'm leaning toward it not being foul play given the amount of searching that went on, and the probability of her having a bad fall, but anything is possible until her or her body turn up.

Kevin just posted in the Facebook group that they're cancelling the offer of a $20,000 reward as they're concerned it will "tempt untrained parties" into searching for Sam.

This is probably good. It also likely made the family prey to scammers who tried to take advantage of them. It's good that they are following the Francis Foundation's advice. So far, it seems like they are putting together quite a good search team that is much more professional in nature.

 

[carbuff]

Imo, you say that now until it’s you or one of your children out there. You never should say what you think you would do. Not unless you been there, done that already. Just when you think you know how you’ll react, may just end up being the opposite once you’re faced with it. Again, moo

I would not presume to speak for my children or anybody else except myself.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I cannot come close to imagining what Sam's loved ones are going through. Their steadfast faith that she is still alive is pretty remarkable. I had hope, but sadly it dimmed after the 1st week.

I have to wonder though, how could they think a person could reasonably survive for a month in that environment without a steady food or water source?

There is a case I can think of offhand where a woman survived against all odds in extreme conditions on only vitamins, trailmix and melted snow for 7 weeks. Rita Chretien....but she had a shelter of sorts...she was stranded in her van in a National Forest in Nevada. Her husband went for help but didn't survive the elements.

Ugh. I cannot seem to link her thread.

56-year-old Canadian was rescued after 7 weeks..

 

[Suglo]

It’s been exactly six weeks since she went missing. She had on a sports bra, pants, lightweight cotton sweat jacket and a wool beanie. She had 2-3 sandwiches and water. The weather has been dipping into the low 30s at night for the past few weeks with highs in the mid 40s. It has also been raining and the extended forecast calls for more rain. She didn’t carry the 10 essential items.

Day Hiking Checklist

She wasn’t prepared for one night out there much less 42.

 

[North American Blue Jay]

I follow some SAR activity here in Canada, and my impression is the organizations and volunteers are there, first and foremost and pretty much exclusively, to save lives. They also take their own health and safety very seriously: they work for years getting their teams and dogs trained so that they're in top shape to respond when the next person gets into trouble. They don't want to jeopardize that next person's rescue by getting too caught up in recovery.

They don't exist to keep looking for a body beyond what they feel is reasonable. And they don't want to have to rescue people who are out looking for bodies.

It's kind of like the fire department: they'll come put out the fire, but they're not going to hang around to help you demolish the wreckage.

Canadians have guaranteed health care through a single payer system (like most developed nations except the U.S). So .. none of this (like, Workman's Comp for this, that insurance company for that portion, etc., Go Fund Me's, so on, "how can I go out there if I don't have excellent health insurance?") are an issue. Good Samaritans are free to engage in SAR without medical care or bills being an issue.

 

[i'm someone]

Some of the questions I still have not found answers to:
Professional trackers were used. They apparently found no "trace" or "sign" of her, either descending, falling or wandering away. Neither has any of the other searchers or SAR. No one just falls down a mountain or wanders around without leaving some trail, and since we have a witness who saw her path, why is there nothing?

Her car was still at the trail head, and according to the mom they did search that area and I assume that means the path she would have taken had she descended and headed back to the car. Just because no one saw her descend does not mean she didn't, because no one saw her fall or anything else after the witness claimed to have seen her descending the "wrong" way. My question is, was her car at all disabled? Was it in working condition? Could someone have asked her help for something and taken her?

All of this could have happened just as easily as her falling or getting lost, attacked by an animal, etc. Let's say she did descend, and it was later than she intended. Maybe it was already getting dark. Maybe there was no one left on the trail to witness anything. There are all sorts of possibilities that become much more possible given that timeline. Especially since not one shred of her or any of her belongings have been sighted.

I also can't seem to find out if the snow in the crevasses I see on the videos and photos was there before she hiked or after. They are all completely undisturbed, so if they were there before her hike, she did not fall into or under them. If they were there after her hike, they have not been disturbed and they need to be. Because they have not been searched, obviously.

 

[i'm someone]

It’s been exactly six weeks since she went missing. She had on a sports bra, pants, lightweight cotton sweat jacket and a wool beanie. She had 2-3 sandwiches and water. The weather has been dipping into the low 30s at night for the past few weeks with highs in the mid 40s. It has also been raining and the extended forecast calls for more rain. She didn’t carry the 10 essential items.

Day Hiking Checklist

She wasn’t prepared for one night out there much less 42.

I agree she should have carried the essentials, even on a day hike. But go over to Youtube and search "Survival Lily", she has many many videos where she shows how anyone could survive even with the bare minimum. She even had someone drop her off in the wilderness in Canada for a week, alone, with close to nothing. She was fine. Also had a challenge where she was asked to jump in freezing water and get herself warm and survive with nothing within like, 10 minutes. It can be done. But seriously, the 10 essentials should be in everyone's pack. We don't even know exactly what was in her pack, who knows, she might have had that stuff.

 

[zecats]

Some of the questions I still have not found answers to:
Professional trackers were used. They apparently found no "trace" or "sign" of her, either descending, falling or wandering away. Neither has any of the other searchers or SAR. No one just falls down a mountain or wanders around without leaving some trail, and since we have a witness who saw her path, why is there nothing?

Her car was still at the trail head, and according to the mom they did search that area and I assume that means the path she would have taken had she descended and headed back to the car. Just because no one saw her descend does not mean she didn't, because no one saw her fall or anything else after the witness claimed to have seen her descending the "wrong" way. My question is, was her car at all disabled? Was it in working condition? Could someone have asked her help for something and taken her?

All of this could have happened just as easily as her falling or getting lost, attacked by an animal, etc. Let's say she did descend, and it was later than she intended. Maybe it was already getting dark. Maybe there was no one left on the trail to witness anything. There are all sorts of possibilities that become much more possible given that timeline. Especially since not one shred of her or any of her belongings have been sighted.

I also can't seem to find out if the snow in the crevasses I see on the videos and photos was there before she hiked or after. They are all completely undisturbed, so if they were there before her hike, she did not fall into or under them. If they were there after her hike, they have not been disturbed and they need to be. Because they have not been searched, obviously.

All valid points you make. So many unknowns. What was reported though is that she was supposed to be back down and to call her birfriend by 6pm. When she didn’t call, he immediately went there and began searching himself, even after dark with a flashlight continuing up the trail. In early August, it wouldn’t have been dark Until what, maybe 8pm?. So I can’t figure how she would have arrived back to her car after dark in this case without his seeing her. . Your scenario could be a possibility before 6pm for sure. Betting most hikers would be off the mountain by then. Were there any other cars at the trailhead at the end of the day, I’m wondering? Jmo

 

[ees]

I agree she should have carried the essentials, even on a day hike. But go over to Youtube and search "Survival Lily", she has many many videos where she shows how anyone could survive even with the bare minimum. She even had someone drop her off in the wilderness in Canada for a week, alone, with close to nothing. She was fine. Also had a challenge where she was asked to jump in freezing water and get herself warm and survive with nothing within like, 10 minutes. It can be done. But seriously, the 10 essentials should be in everyone's pack. We don't even know exactly what was in her pack, who knows, she might have had that stuff.

I took a quick look at her website- her “job” (“” because I don’t know if she considers it a job, but it appears to be her main focus) is focused on survival skills, so she would and should know how to survive on the bare minimum, or improvise with items found in nature. For most, survival skills are learned, through a variety of wilderness courses. If someone is lost in a very supportive natural environment- eg plenty of berries/fruit, water, warm environment, easy shelter- their chances of survival would increase.

I have a friend who teaches wilderness skill classes designed for children, and there are several organizations in my region who offer a variety of adult level classes. These are a great tool for anyone who spends time in the woods, solo or not.

 

[AllGrace]

Canadians have guaranteed health care through a single payer system (like most developed nations except the U.S). So .. none of this (like, Workman's Comp for this, that insurance company for that portion, etc., Go Fund Me's, so on, "how can I go out there if I don't have excellent health insurance?") are an issue. Good Samaritans are free to engage in SAR without medical care or bills being an issue.

Medical costs might not be an issue. They wouldn’t be for me either due to excellent, free healthcare through my husbands work. But there is loss of time from work. Loss of time from family. Even if your bills are covered you could have a lifelong handicap from an injury. And all of that for someone who the odds say is long deceased. Medical costs are one piece of the pie. But not the only piece.

 

[AllGrace]

All valid points you make. So many unknowns. What was reported though is that she was supposed to be back down and to call her birfriend by 6pm. When she didn’t call, he immediately went there and began searching himself, even after dark with a flashlight continuing up the trail. In early August, it wouldn’t have been dark Until what, maybe 8pm?. So I can’t figure how she would have arrived back to her car after dark in this case without his seeing her. . Your scenario could be a possibility before 6pm for sure. Betting most hikers would be off the mountain by then. Were there any other cars at the trailhead at the end of the day, I’m wondering? Jmo

Very good points. Excellent questions. I have said from the beginning there are some red flags. I don’t know what they mean but they are there.