WA WA - Seraya Aung Harmon, 2, Pullman, 29 May 2024 *father and daughter went on a fishing trip in Montana but did not return* #2

[Megnut]

Thinking outside the box for a moment while there is a long lull in the case.

Do you think AA, NC, and AA's family planned for the public exposure, expecting the public to rally around them, to support them taking a child?

NC didn't disappear quietly but in a dramatic way that would get public attention - pretty young woman vanishes from airport. AA's family made a webpage to air dirty laundry about the mom and to praise AA and NC - quite a public gesture. Both of those actions were completely unnecessary for the task of withholding a child from her mother.

Did they WANT this all to be so public? Surely there are hundreds if not thousands of custodial interference cases, but they made sure theirs was a splash. Why?

Idk. Just thinking aloud here.

jmo

I don't think they expected publicity at all.

I think NC thought her family would board and travel on without her, thinking she'd just missed the flight, and not on purpose. Thought she bought herself some time IMO.

I think AA's family thought Seraya's mom would be powerless to do anything about it.

And the new family -- AA, NC and toddler would just start life over somewhere.

Terrible plan.

My fear, they made it to a country without extradition-- hoping LE knows where they are, has eyes on Seraya and is working to get her home safely.

JMO

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Thinking outside the box for a moment while there is a long lull in the case.

Do you think AA, NC, and AA's family planned for the public exposure, expecting the public to rally around them, to support them taking a child?

NC didn't disappear quietly but in a dramatic way that would get public attention - pretty young woman vanishes from airport. AA's family made a webpage to air dirty laundry about the mom and to praise AA and NC - quite a public gesture. Both of those actions were completely unnecessary for the task of withholding a child from her mother.

Did they WANT this all to be so public? Surely there are hundreds if not thousands of custodial interference cases, but they made sure theirs was a splash. Why?

Idk. Just thinking aloud here.

jmo

I don't think they anticipated it being public but when Nadia's little airport stunt got so much attention, they felt compelled to defend themselves publicly. Just a guess.

 

[MassGuy]

I don't think they anticipated it being public but when Nadia's little airport stunt got so much attention, they felt compelled to defend themselves publicly. Just a guess.

Yeah, had that airport thing not happened, we would know nothing about this case. This sort of thing happens all the time, and almost never makes the news. They couldn't have had that foresight.

 

[Centaurus]

Thinking outside the box for a moment while there is a long lull in the case.

Do you think AA, NC, and AA's family planned for the public exposure, expecting the public to rally around them, to support them taking a child?

NC didn't disappear quietly but in a dramatic way that would get public attention - pretty young woman vanishes from airport. AA's family made a webpage to air dirty laundry about the mom and to praise AA and NC - quite a public gesture. Both of those actions were completely unnecessary for the task of withholding a child from her mother.

Did they WANT this all to be so public? Surely there are hundreds if not thousands of custodial interference cases, but they made sure theirs was a splash. Why?

Idk. Just thinking aloud here.

jmo

This is what I don't understand, if this was planned all along, why would you start this journey at the airport? Where there are cameras everywhere. Where you crush your parents. Where you cause immediate concern and LE interference. I don't get it. If I were planning on running away with my boyfriend and his kid, I would have done it quietly. I would have went along with the "camping" ruse and just never returned. That way we would have had days before anyone comes looking.

Make it make sense! The only thing I can think of that makes her actions make sense is grim. IMO

 

[NervousNellie]

This is what I don't understand, if this was planned all along, why would you start this journey at the airport? Where there are cameras everywhere. Where you crush your parents. Where you cause immediate concern and LE interference. I don't get it. If I were planning on running away with my boyfriend and his kid, I would have done it quietly. I would have went along with the "camping" ruse and just never returned. That way we would have had days before anyone comes looking.

Make it make sense! The only thing I can think of that makes her actions make sense is grim. IMO

To be fair, it doesn't have to make sense. They could have just made a lot of stupid decisions. What's the razor that says 'never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity'? I think NC and AA are very lucky fools a this point. I hope I'm right and that everyone is safe.

 

[Centaurus]

To be fair, it doesn't have to make sense. They could have just made a lot of stupid decisions. What's the razor that says 'never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity'? I think NC and AA are very lucky fools a this point. I hope I'm right and that everyone is safe.

So true! And same, I hope everyone is safe. They most likely are, I just don't understand the airport scene.

 

[Megnut]

What's everyone thinking?

They're hiding out in a cabin in the woods?

They've crossed borders?

They've met with unscheduled foul play?

Unplanned accident? In a lake?

All three together, hidden but healthy?

Planned?

Spontaneous?

To "protect" Seraya or just to have her?

Cover up because something happened to Seraya?

I never thought they'd go unfounded this long.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

What's everyone thinking?

They're hiding out in a cabin in the woods?

They've crossed borders?

They've met with unscheduled foul play?

Unplanned accident? In a lake?

All three together, hidden but healthy?

Planned?

Spontaneous?

To "protect" Seraya or just to have her?

Cover up because something happened to Seraya?

I never thought they'd go unfounded this long.

JMO

I think they're totally fine somewhere in Mexico. There had to have been some planning here, but I don't think it was well planned. They've just been lucky they haven't been spotted.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

What's everyone thinking?

They're hiding out in a cabin in the woods?

They've crossed borders?

They've met with unscheduled foul play?

Unplanned accident? In a lake?

All three together, hidden but healthy?

Planned?

Spontaneous?

To "protect" Seraya or just to have her?

Cover up because something happened to Seraya?

I never thought they'd go unfounded this long.

JMO

I think they're together, hiding in plain sight, in the USA. International/wire transfers would be too obvious and by now I'd think the family Aung would be charged if LE knew about it after the house raid.

No accident, they are "protecting Seraya" from the "conditions" at mom's. Their Aung Family Statement, shared with the public weeks after the disappearance, tells me the family are not concerned for their safety.

At this point I wonder if family members (mom and dad Aung, Aaron, siblings) are communicating among themselves in code or in another language- making it more difficult for LE to decipher what's happening.

 

[Knox]

If they need medical services, they just show up to any emergency room or hospital. They can't be denied care. No ID needed and no one's going to do a background check.

ID would be needed at travel hubs, like an airport and at the border. Also if you're going to rent an apartment, apply for a loan, get a job, finance a car, those types of things.

Any emergency room I’ve been to requires an ID. I think it would draw attention if you had no form of ID as a walk in patient, especially if you had a child with you. But I guess the unhomed probably don’t have ID.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Any emergency room I’ve been to requires an ID. I think it would draw attention if you had no form of ID as a walk in patient, especially if you had a child with you. But I guess the unhomed probably don’t have ID.

They can't require it. They may ask for it but they can't deny care if you don't have it. We care for a lot of homeless people, but also a lot of people who just don't have ID for any number of reasons. Showing ID isn't a prerequisite to getting care. Now what that care is depends on what's going on. They have to stabilize you and they can't do that without an exam and determining what's going on.

You have rights in an emergency room under EMTALA | CMS

Everyone in the U.S. is protected by the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA).

www.cms.gov

 

[Knox]

They can't require it. They may ask for it but they can't deny care if you don't have it. We care for a lot of homeless people, but also a lot of people who just don't have ID for any number of reasons. Showing ID isn't a prerequisite to getting care. Now what that care is depends on what's going on. They have to stabilize you and they can't do that without an exam and determining what's going on.

You have rights in an emergency room under EMTALA | CMS

Everyone in the U.S. is protected by the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA).

www.cms.gov

I get all that. But if staff were suspicious of something would they report it? Are hospitals included in BOLOs of this type? I’m not asking about actual medical treatment, more like how they could be tracked down if they had to seek treatment.

 

[mst]

Interesting the words here being used about the ER visit. Possible that the Aung's took her words and twisted them. Likely in Mexico leaves the door open that they are not

Missing Pullman couple, child possibly in Mexico, police say

A young couple and two-year-old girl who went missing from Pullman are now believed to be in Mexico, police say.

www.fox13seattle.com

 

[Ontario Mom]

This is what I don't understand, if this was planned all along, why would you start this journey at the airport? Where there are cameras everywhere. Where you crush your parents. Where you cause immediate concern and LE interference. I don't get it. If I were planning on running away with my boyfriend and his kid, I would have done it quietly. I would have went along with the "camping" ruse and just never returned. That way we would have had days before anyone comes looking.

Make it make sense! The only thing I can think of that makes her actions make sense is grim. IMO

You can't make it make sense because it doesn't.
If you're planning to disappear with your fiance and his kid, you don't do it this way.
Which makes me think it wasn't planned at all, at least on her part.
His? Maybe not his part either & something went sideways?
His parents? Pfft. Nothing's going to make that make sense.

jmo

 

[NCWatcher]

Interesting the words here being used about the ER visit. Possible that the Aung's took her words and twisted them. Likely in Mexico leaves the door open that they are not

Missing Pullman couple, child possibly in Mexico, police say

A young couple and two-year-old girl who went missing from Pullman are now believed to be in Mexico, police say.

www.fox13seattle.com

The Aungs may have exaggerated the mother's words about the child's illness (swollen belly, possible exploding intestines). But the mother may have exaggerated the child's medical condition too.

In the above linked article (as well as others) SH has said she and her daughter were told at the ER (yes, she said Seraya was told too) her constipation/bowel blockage could cause sepsis if it didn't pass soon and she would die.

"We were advised by the doctor, we being Seraya and I, that if she didn't pass this soon, should could become septic, which is fatal," Harmon said."

But the child was not admitted to the hospital. I'm not a physician but that account sounds pretty unlikely to me. If a bowel obstruction/severe constipation existed that was close to causing possible sepsis, I can't imagine a 2-year old wouldn't be admitted for in-house treatment or at least for observation.

Some on WS have suggested the mother did intentionally exaggerate when talking about the child's illness so LE & others would look harder for the child. That's possible, I suppose. At any rate, I don't think we know what was actually true. The Aungs' story is that in response to SH's extreme texts about the child's condition they consulted the ER doctor. They claim they were told the child had ordinary toddler/childhood constipation to be handled with prune juice and other fluids. That makes sense to me since the child was not admitted to the hospital. But I can't know that for sure.
MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I get all that. But if staff were suspicious of something would they report it? Are hospitals included in BOLOs of this type? I’m not asking about actual medical treatment, more like how they could be tracked down if they had to seek treatment.

That's complicated and has no right answer. They can release the info, but I'm not sure if they're required to, especially if they can't verify the identity through an ID.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

If you bring in a child to the ER, even if you do NOT have an ID, depending on the condition of the child, in MANY cases there will be a Social Worker or a Nurse Case Manager, there to just check what's going on. If the story makes sense.

"We’re from Idaho and traveling and I'm not the bio mom, this is my fiancé and this is his daughter" is going to definitely ring some bells and IDs will be checked of the adults.

It's just a matter of time they'll be caught in their ridiculously poorly thought up escapade. Tick, tock....

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If you bring in a child to the ER, even if you do NOT have an ID, depending on the condition of the child, in MANY cases there will be a Social Worker or a Nurse Case Manager, there to just check what's going on. If the story makes sense.

"We’re from Idaho and traveling and I'm not the bio mom, this is my fiancé and this is his daughter" is going to definitely ring some bells and IDs will be checked of the adults.

It's just a matter of time they'll be caught in their ridiculously poorly thought up escapade. Tick, tock....

Substitute any state for Idaho and this happens way more often than you're probably thinking. It doesn't tend to raise red flags unless the child is showing signs of neglect or mistreatment, the child is interacting strangely with parents, or the parents are interacting strangely with each other.

Other than that, step-parent bringing child to the ER while on a road trip or extended vacation is pretty common. Bio parent is likely with the other kids. Most do tend to have ID, but even if they didn't (say bio parent was primary driver or something like that), I hesitate to say it would raise red flags unless some of the above are true.

For the sake of Samara and Seraya, I hope you're right and someone gets suspicious, but I wouldn't count on just the scenario by itself raising suspicion in a busy ER. MOO.

 

[NCWatcher]

Substitute any state for Idaho and this happens way more often than you're probably thinking. It doesn't tend to raise red flags unless the child is showing signs of neglect or mistreatment, the child is interacting strangely with parents, or the parents are interacting strangely with each other.

Other than that, step-parent bringing child to the ER while on a road trip or extended vacation is pretty common. Bio parent is likely with the other kids. Most do tend to have ID, but even if they didn't (say bio parent was primary driver or something like that), I hesitate to say it would raise red flags unless some of the above are true.

For the sake of Samara and Seraya, I hope you're right and someone gets suspicious, but I wouldn't count on just the scenario by itself raising suspicion in a busy ER. MOO.

I do want the child to be found, of course. But I have mixed feelings about the couple being caught in an ER. While a group from all over is following the case on WS, I'm not sure how much national attention it's actually getting. But if they got caught at an ER and there were to be lots of publicity, I'd be worried it could cause more people to be reluctant to visit an ER with a child under all kinds of "iffy" circumstances. And I'm not sure that would be a good thing in the long run. I'm afraid too often fear of caretaker blame already results in delayed treatment for children as it is.
MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I do want the child to be found, of course. But I have mixed feelings about the couple being caught in an ER. While a group from all over is following the case on WS, I'm not sure how much national attention it's actually getting. But if they got caught at an ER and there were to be lots of publicity, I'd be worried it could cause more people to be reluctant to visit an ER with a child under all kinds of "iffy" circumstances. And I'm not sure that would be a good thing in the long run. I'm afraid too often fear of caretaker blame already results in delayed treatment for children as it is.
MOO

I agree which is why hospitals also tend to have leeway and why they have a very high threshold for involving LE. If the child isn't in danger and they don't suspect a trafficking or child abuse situation, it's unlikely they'd report it. MOO based on my experience. But for Seraya's sake, I do hope they get suspicious and report it.