WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #2

[LogicalMinds]

Maybe, maybe not.

Are you an alcoholic?

Alcohol is alcohol, no matter what form it takes.





Her autopsy should show damage of some sort if she's an alcoholic, I'd think.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

liver damage can occur younger but it most likely will not show up till middle age

the liver rejuvenates, especially in younger people, and she had been sober for some time

you are confusing alcoholics with derelicts, street people, etc...yes, they are alcoholics but your kids teacher could be an alcoholic, your priest could be an alcholic, anyone could be

 

[Malini2001]

That is an excellent point. It is very odd that they would wash up at the same time and at the same location...

I was also wondering if someone (kids, etc) may have gone down to the beach, seen her car and took her stuff, but missed the wallet.

I'm so baffled as to where the overnight bag and purse are. Why didn't they show up in the same place as the wine bottle? They could have sunk, but the sonar would have found them

She may not even have had an overnight bag and purse with her. Everytime she was on video she pulled her wallet out of her pocket.

Would be interesting to know if a bag she normally took was missing from her house. If she didn't pack an overnight bag, then something was going on with her even before she left her house.

 

[LotsaLatte]

Anything on the autopsy yet?

 

[lawlady84]

Has anyone heard anything about the autopsy? I thought I read it would be released w/in the hour?

 

[90Nine]

Maybe, maybe not.

Are you an alcoholic?

Alcohol is alcohol, no matter what form it takes.





Her autopsy should show damage of some sort if she's an alcoholic, I'd think.

I don't feel that RS would have *edit typo* NOT gone on national television in front of her family, friends and his family if the alcoholic statement was not true. Even a lifelong friend of hers saying they were almost like sisters posted a comment on a news release blog saying that she was and she also said that it was likely she had been drinking all day. Which would make sense as to why she didn't want to drive with RS.

 

[RubyRed]

Shantina Smiley and Azriel Carver Disappearance

[I]Shantina “Kat” Smiley of Silverdale and her son, Azriel Carver are seen entering the Handy Pantry convenience store near Olympia on Saturday night in this image captured from surveillance tape supplied by the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office.[/I]

Shantina Smiley and her son Azriel Carver, 8, were seen at the Martin Way Diner in Olympia. Employees there tell investigators that the two came in about 9 p.m. Saturday, and bought a corn dog. They left before being served, and an employee tells investigators the woman fell in the parking lot. (Photo by Robert Dashiell)

Shantina Smiley and Azriel Carter.

Off Zangle Road NE in North Olympia is a narrow gravel road leading to the beach where the van Shantina Smiley had been driving was found. The entrance to that gravel road is marked by a red arrow. (Photo courtesy of reader Robert Dashiell)

This is near the end of the beach access road where the van Shantina Smiley was driving was found. At the end of this graveled road is a very sharp drop-off to the right. The red dot marks the approximate location of the vehicle, which was removed by investigators Sunday. The waterway to the left leads to Boston Harbor. (Photo courtesy of Robert Dashiell)

[I]The next morning someone discovered the van stuck in the mud on a beach north of Olympia. The red dot marks the approximate location where the van was found. (Photo courtesy of Robert Dashiell)
[/I]

[I]Jay Carver, right, is comforted by a Pierce County chaplain near where the body of a young boy was found on Fox Island on Thursday. Pierce County Sheriff's Office spokesman Ed Troyer said the clothing on the body matches that of Carver's 8-year-old son, Azriel. (MEEGAN M. REID | KITSAP SUN)[/I]


http://www.kitsapsun.com/photos/galleries/2010/mar/16/shantina-smiley-disappearance/8924/

 

[lawlady84]

From the first comment on this article: http://www.kirotv.com/news/22887596/detail.html

It says she had no shoes on when she came to the door of the house she used their phone? Have we heard that?

 

[powayparent]

I notice that NO one has addressed my various posts about the lack of rehabs, mental health emergency care, etc

that would have been the "real" solution here

We have no idea what, if any, treatment she had or had access to. Inpatient treatment has a 1 yr success rate of less than 20%. I have recovering alcoholics in my life, none have entered inpatient treatment, despite the fact that it would have been covered by insurance. Some go or have gone to AA, others sought help through their church, all make a conscious decision every minute of every day not to take the first sip.

In this case it seems that had the family been better educated about alcoholism the outcome could have been different. As you mentioned, Az could have been instructed what to do and not do if he was with his mother and she was drinking. Her fiance could have refused to let her borrow his car for the trip if he thought there would be a problem.

Any one who came in contact with her that suspected she was impaired could have called 911 and reported her as a drunk driver. If she seemed impaired when she bought the wine the clerk had a legal obligation to refuse to sell her alcohol.

 

[Calliope]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

liver damage can occur younger but it most likely will not show up till middle age

the liver rejuvenates, especially in younger people, and she had been sober for some time

you are confusing alcoholics with derelicts, street people, etc...yes, they are alcoholics but your kids teacher could be an alcoholic, your priest could be an alcholic, anyone could be

No I'm not, and whether you wish to believe it or not, am not as clueless about the subject as you seem to think.

 

[lawlady84]

Okay, this is pure speculation on my part, but I'm thinking there might be a more logical explanation for the fiancee and SS driving down separately, considering her relapse.

Maybe they were planning on going down together. She got nervous during the day, started drinking. At 4:15, he calls her and tells her the meeting is almost over, he'll be on his way home and they can drive down together. She freaks out because she has been drinking and thought she'd have until 6:30 to "sober up," tells him she's already about to leave and he should just meet them at Castle Rock. She grabs Azriel, runs out the door - forgetting her overnight bag and cell phone.

When originally asked, the fiance might not want to say that she rushed out of the house and wouldn't wait for him - people would treat her as a runaway and he knew there was probably more going on because of her drinking. Plausible? And it explains why he would immediately put up the website, not to give HIMSELF an alibi, but to "show" that she didn't run away.

 

[Robyn623]

Wow! After looking at that photo of the gravel road I have to wonder how she found it. I wouldn't even have seen it if it wasn't for the red arrow! This is so sad! What the heck happened that night?

 

[sorrell skye]

I don't see how she could have been "lost" for all that time, although some here from the area say it's possible. But for 4-5 hours??? In any case, the grandfather had said in an interview that she had been to Castle Rock (where the step-father lives) recently .... IIRC about 2 weeks ago? RS has never mentioned that as far as I know. The step-sister says she was looking forward to their visit, so it seems they were expecting her.

I don't think Shantina had seen her step-family in awhile, as I remember reading a comment by her step-sister recently where she said she was looking forward to reuniting with her (or something to that effect).

Nevertheless, I find it hard to believe she was truly "lost" in Olympia for that amount of time, especially after stopping at 2 different locations (the convenience store where she looked at the map & the Williams' house) asking for directions.

If you're lost in an unfamiliar city, you stay on the main roads - you don't keep driving further & further back into what was obviously a remote area. You turn around & go back the way you came until you come to a main road again. Common sense, to me at least.

I've taken dozens of road trips to places I've never been before & the few times I've gotten lost, that's the strategy I followed. Heck - I've gotten lost in my own city (in unfamiliar neighborhoods) once or twice, and it didn't take me long to get back on track again.

As I've posted before, I-5 is relatively easy to get to from Silverdale to Olympia. I've driven through there several times over the years & I've never gotten lost.

The thought occurred to me: what if she wasn't really trying to find I-5? What if she was really trying to find that beach where they ended up?

Also about the tides - anyone in the area with even a rudimentary knowledge of tides would know better than to park that close to the water at low tide. If she didn't intend to drive down onto the beach that far & got stuck in the sand before she could get back up to higher ground, then the same applies - she would more than likely have known that at some point in the next 12 hours the tide would rise and it wouldn't be a good idea to stay in the car.

Since she & her son & fiance were involved in scouts, I'm assuming they had at least a basic knowledge of tides.

And I agree with everyone who says that driving around Olympia lost for that length of time is hard to swallow.

To me, that's the most puzzling part of this whole tragedy.

 

[90Nine]

I'm also baffled as to why she just didn't buy her own map if she was that lost. Since she stopped so many times to ask directions and was there lost for so many hours...

Either that or write them down (left on this street, right on that...)

 

[LogicalMinds]

We have no idea what, if any, treatment she had or had access to. Inpatient treatment has a 1 yr success rate of less than 20%. I have recovering alcoholics in my life, none have entered inpatient treatment, despite the fact that it would have been covered by insurance. Some go or have gone to AA, others sought help through their church, all make a conscious decision every minute of every day not to take the first sip.

In this case it seems that had the family been better educated about alcoholism the outcome could have been different. As you mentioned, Az could have been instructed what to do and not do if he was with his mother and she was drinking. Her fiance could have refused to let her borrow his car for the trip if he thought there would be a problem.

Any one who came in contact with her that suspected she was impaired could have called 911 and reported her as a drunk driver. If she seemed impaired when she bought the wine the clerk had a legal obligation to refuse to sell her alcohol.

I think the advantage of rehabs is that they inform and educate the family really

I don't think she looked impaired at the store when she bought the wine

I don't think that she even looked impaired enough anywhere for anyone to call

the problem was with her and her family/people close to her

I agree the ONLY way to have changed this (for Azirel) was to have not allowed him to go with her..but of course he was HER son not the stepdads

in this day and age..where were the cell phones??

If there is anythhig to learn from these tragedies I learn have a good cell phone, charged up..maybe a back up

 

[anyoldtime48]

From the first comment on this article: http://www.kirotv.com/news/22887596/detail.html

It says she had no shoes on when she came to the door of the house she used their phone? Have we heard that?

I'd take that comment with a total grain of salt. Some of the people commenting are way out there and confused, in part because they read the first story out and take it as gospel and correct.

That story is prime example of messed up media. Messed up Az's father's last name almost every time it was mentioned and still have not corrected the story.

As to autopsy results, have not found or heard any mention yet of those being released. Seems a tad quick for that to be happening, but coroners and labs in Seattle area can move at light speed when they want or need to, so maybe something will come out today.

 

[Jani]

I refuse to pass judgment on this young woman based on speculation and supposition. I believe there is much, much more to this story. She did not look unhappy or depressed, etc. in any of the videos...in fact she looked HAPPY. I do not believe this is a murder/suicide. Of course, I most certainly could be wrong, but I am waiting for all the information possible to be revealed.

At the very least, she has lost her son and most likely her own life.

Compassion, people, compassion. Give her the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise.

 

[Calliope]

I don't feel that RS would have *edit typo* NOT gone on national television in front of her family, friends and his family if the alcoholic statement was not true. Even a lifelong friend of hers saying they were almost like sisters posted a comment on a news release blog saying that she was and she also said that it was likely she had been drinking all day. Which would make sense as to why she didn't want to drive with RS.

Everyone wants to take as gospel RS's diagnosis of her as an alcoholic, but dismisses his assertion she wouldn't drink around her son.

IMO, she clearly had issues. I don't think we have enough to say with certainty that she was addicted to alcohol. Whether she was compelled to drink or simply chose to use it to 'calm her nerves', her son paid for this with his life. And she did too. It really doesn't matter why she was drinking, two people are dead.

 

[ms_writer]

Neither politics nor what does or does not constitute alcholism will help find Shantina, or bring back Azriel. And that's why we're here on Websleuths, right?

Please let's all get along; I don't want the thread pulled.

 

[Recovering-Lurker]

Her autopsy should show damage of some sort if she's an alcoholic, I'd think.

liver damage can occur younger but it most likely will not show up till middle age

the liver rejuvenates, especially in younger people, and she had been sober for some time

*Both posts respectfully snipped.*

The body may show damage, it may not. It depends on several factors, including the person's unique physical makeup. Someone very close to me had lab work done recently. Her LFT levels were extremely elevated. It was then she revealed how much she was drinking. Her Dr. told her that some people could drink as much as her, and nothing would show up until they were 50, but in her case, she is only 30. And yes, the liver can rejuvenate like you said. This is what my friend was told, and luckily she is young, her ultrasound didn't show any liver damage yet, and she is in recovery. Just my :twocents:.

 

[anyoldtime48]

Okay, this is pure speculation on my part, but I'm thinking there might be a more logical explanation for the fiancee and SS driving down separately, considering her relapse.

Maybe they were planning on going down together. She got nervous during the day, started drinking. At 4:15, he calls her and tells her the meeting is almost over, he'll be on his way home and they can drive down together. She freaks out because she has been drinking and thought she'd have until 6:30 to "sober up," tells him she's already about to leave and he should just meet them at Castle Rock. She grabs Azriel, runs out the door - forgetting her overnight bag and cell phone.

When originally asked, the fiance might not want to say that she rushed out of the house and wouldn't wait for him - people would treat her as a runaway and he knew there was probably more going on because of her drinking. Plausible? And it explains why he would immediately put up the website, not to give HIMSELF an alibi, but to "show" that she didn't run away.

I had a similar thought, but somewhat turned around. Perhaps after she called him at 4:15 to tell him she was leaving (and he says she called him TWICE), he realized something wasn't right, and suspected "maybe" she had been drinking again.

Thus he "ended" his Cub Scout leadership training early and took off with full intention of trying to catch up and/or stop her.

Whether he really has a clue and fully understands how alcoholism works, I have to wonder, and methinks she was doing a good job of hiding it from him and others. But he might have known something was amiss after she called him twice. In his heart maybe knew for sure when she called him after she got to Olympia. She'd forgotten her phone. Forgotten his charger (presumed at this point unless was found in the van or washes up on a beach). If she indeed pulled out of the driveway close to 4:15pm on took the most direct and logical route to Castle Rock on I-5, unless traffic was truly awful, meaning beyond standard slowdowns on weekends due to accident(s), 6:45 to be landing roughly 50 miles away is way too long. Even if she left at 5pm.

So did she stop somewhere else for alcohol earlier? No indication she was lost in Olympia at 6:45, only that she had gotten off there because Az needed to use facilities. If in fact that was what was behind it. There may still be video out there nobody knows about. She may very well have stopped elsewhere with no cameras, or where nobody has come forward who remembers seeing them, prior to 7:50pm. Or she was driving aimlessly for an hour looking for a place to stop prior to that. I doubt that. I believe we simply only know a portion of where she was and when, and it pretty much stops at 10:10pm until unknown arrival time on the beach.

Recently updated story, with mention of no autopsy results available as yet:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88624222.html