WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #4

[90Nine]

I never said otherwise. I guess I'm not being clear. Not sure how else to explain...

Yes, but they do investigative reporting. They have access to everyone closely associated with Shantina - or otherwise. And, leads. They haven't reported anything.

Shoot - Nancy Grace isn't even talking about it.

Everyone has reporting the same thing, the same videos, the same 2 second interviews since this started.

They could have discussed the van/tide issue -easily.

 

[floridaheather]

MAYBE, the "accident" didn't actually occur. Could it be possible that she called them so they didn't worry, and came up with an excuse for why she was running so late? This could have all been part of her plan not to end up showing up.

I know I would have called 911 with all of these bizarre circumstances:

1. Knocking on total strangers' door at 10:00 p.m. with a child in tow.
2. The child complains of hunger and wants food.
3. Mother appears to be intoxicated and upset.

However, I also wouldn't blame this couple. Its the same thing as blaming her fiance for letting her drive. Yes, maybe we would have done things differently, but that doesn't mean that they are in any way responsible for the horrible death that Shantina put her son through.

1. We cannot know for sure that Shantina drank that wine she bought.
2. We cannot know that Shantina did not run into some unsavory character that abducted her, killed her, or threw Az into the water.
3. Since we cannot know these things we cannot definitively blame Shantina for her son's death. The last time that I checked, buying a bottle of wine, and getting lost are not crimes. Not even slightly akin to murder, much less that of your own flesh & blood.
There are NO murder suspects in Az's death. Not even Shantina, as much as we may want to close this case, it is still open.

 

[floridaheather]

I don't know how else to say this... I'm not questioning LE. All I've said is I hope they ARE looking at other possible scenarios. If you go back to my original post and what I was responding to, I wasn't talking about LE.

Yes, there are too many questions here to answer. It does feel like sometimes when you have a history, people are too willing to throw in the towel. I hope they won't b/c every human life is worth the effort to find. No matter what their past.

 

[90Nine]

Right then why not drive out, unless your tires are stuck.??

Right - and if the tires are in fact stuck, then why not go 200 feet up the driveway she drove down to the house and ask for help. Or - Honk.

 

[sorrell skye]

I don't believe he is the one who assaulted Azriel. This was discussed on the last thread.

Oops - my bad, then. I edited my previous post. Don't want to pass on misinformation. Thanks!

 

[Calliope]

Can someone help me out please?

In the earlier reports, it was said the van was under water 'to the top of the seats'. But it seems like I recall the 911 call or perhaps an interview later saying the van was completely under water. Has there ever been a definite statement as to how far up the water came on the van?

ETA: that clean windshield really bugs me...

 

[Miss Optimism]

1. We cannot know for sure that Shantina drank that wine she bought.
2. We cannot know that Shantina did not run into some unsavory character that abducted her, killed her, or threw Az into the water.
3. Since we cannot know these things we cannot definitively blame Shantina for her son's death. The last time that I checked, buying a bottle of wine, and getting lost are not crimes. Not even slightly akin to murder, much less that of your own flesh & blood.
There are NO murder suspects in Az's death. Not even Shantina, as much as we may want to close this case, it is still open.

I have never thought or suggested that Shantina intentionally murdered her son. That could be the case, but it seemed like she really loved him.

I blame her for her bizarre and irrational behavior that night. It might not be a crime, but is it responsible for a mother to knock on a complete stranger's door, with her child, at 10:00 p.m? This, we know, FOR SURE, that she did.

 

[90Nine]

Part of me questions if she was hoping the Williams would offer her to spend the night...

(it was reported that she did stop there because of the Christian ornament of some kind on the home)

I'm also curious how long SS and Az spent at the Williams home. Did Az eat the pizza there or take it with him.

They said she had no shoes on when she came to the door...

**Could that be because she was walking on the beach earlier?

 

[floridaheather]

I have enough confidence in LE to not make assumptions like that and to exhaust every possible scenario she could have been involved in.

I'm glad you do, b/c I don't. They used a plane to search not a copter after they found Az MILES away from the van; remember that the first area they searched was the area around the van w/ divers. I guess it never occurred to them there was a current or where that might lead. And furthermore, they are now soliciting TIPS, following up on leads, & have abandoned the search--so by their OWN admission they *need the public's help*. I don't think Calliope is dissing LE so much as she exploring other avenues. If there were no others but LE's, then this site would be sort of futile. Glad that we are all here thinking further...

 

[floridaheather]

Part of me questions if she was hoping the Williams would offer her to spend the night...

(it was reported that she did stop there because of the Christian ornament of some kind on the home)

I'm also curious how long SS and Az spent at the Williams home. Did Az eat the pizza there or take it with him.

They said she had no shoes on when she came to the door...

**Could that be because she was walking on the beach earlier?

Wow. i bet part of her was, from how it sounds.

 

[jessigirl]

I was referring to the comments on these threads or other forums or on news sites. Some remain open to other possibilities, but for the most part once the word "alcoholic" was uttered, all other potential scenarios were tossed aside.

Yes that iS what I said earlier in my post 2 pages back that I wholeheartedly believe that because of the unsavory things that have come to light that alot of people are just calling it, CASE CLOSED, NO OTHER POSSIBILITIES! And thats just incorrect, as many of us just on this thread recognize and feel that there is too much of a "chance" for something else to have occured that night to just say or believe CASE CLOSED!

 

[Miss Optimism]

I'm glad you do, b/c I don't. They used a plane to search not a copter after they found Az MILES away from the van; remember that the first area they searched was the area around the van w/ divers. I guess it never occurred to them there was a current or where that might lead. And furthermore, they are now soliciting TIPS, following up on leads, & have abandoned the search--so by their OWN admission they *need the public's help*. I don't think Calliope is dissing LE so much as she exploring other avenues. If there were no others but LE's, then this site would be sort of futile. Glad that we are all here thinking further...

I agree with what you're saying about the search efforts but I was just trying to say that I think they have probably interviewed everyone she knows like crazy, checked phone & internet records and exhausted any scenario of an abduction, etc. by now.

 

[houndstooth]

Wow. i bet part of her was, from how it sounds.

Why? He probably asked her where she was headed, gave directions and was aware it was just a mere 45 minutes away. Who thinks you need to bed down for the night when less than an hour from your destination? Am I off base thinking this?

Sorry, I quoted the wrong post. Should have been 90nine's I think.

 

[floridaheather]

I have never thought or suggested that Shantina intentionally murdered her son. That could be the case, but it seemed like she really loved him.

I blame her for her bizarre and irrational behavior that night. It might not be a crime, but is it responsible for a mother to knock on a complete stranger's door, with her child, at 10:00 p.m? This, we know, FOR SURE, that she did.

What we also know was that the Mechantile store had a gas station in it and she was lost. Maybe her gas was low & she had to choice but to knock. And I don't think it is irresponsible to stop and ask a homeowner for help. Hitching is one thing, and so is *answering* your door to a stranger, but if now that we all own cell phones we can't knock on a door if we are desperate then things are in a bad way. And one more thing--Az said his mommy hit her head: how do we know that is not true. We don't know that she didn't have a concussion & was thinking erratically for that reason. Or that she didn't have a brain tumor for that matter. Or that she wasn't drugged by someone else. We just don't. We can't blame her for her strange behavior if we don't know why, and we still don't know that she was drinking that night, a week before then--we have no proof of that.

 

[PaulR]

Yes that iS what I said earlier in my post 2 pages back that I wholeheartedly believe that because of the unsavory things that have come to light that alot of people are just calling it, CASE CLOSED, NO OTHER POSSIBILITIES! And thats just incorrect, as many of us just on this thread recognize and feel that there is too much of a "chance" for something else to have occured that night to just say or believe CASE CLOSED!

It's not the "unsavory" things per se - it's that they tie into a pattern of behavior on the night in question which is consistent with the evidence found.

She was buying jug wine at the same time she was buying a drink for her son.
She was disoriented for hours.
Her son's body washes up on a beach, and was labeled by the coroner an accidental drowning.

It's pretty clear she drowned due to an accident on the beach.


It's sad, it's tragic, and unfortunately it happens.

 

[Calliope]

Thinking more on the windshield and dirt on the van... it's hard to tell just by the photos, but it doesn't appear to be the same color as that on the beach. All the videos of the van show it to be clean, so it would've had to have happened after she was last seen. If not from the beach, where was it driven that mud splattered clear to the roof of the van?

I'd also like to know what the water is like in that area... seems I read here or *somewhere* that it's murky, full of silt. If so, is that consistent with the color of the mud/dirt splashed on the van? And if it is... why is the windshield clean?

 

[floridaheather]

Why? He probably asked her where she was headed, gave directions and was aware it was just a mere 45 minutes away. Who thinks you need to bed down for the night when less than an hour from your destination? Am I off base thinking this?

Just that it sounds like at that point of the evening she was exasperated w/ all the trouble she had had and maybe in the corner of her mind she was hoping for more. Not that I would have offered it being that she was a stranger myself, but I guess I wonder if she wasn't praying someone would offer. No biggie. Maybe she wasn't. I wonder if she was--I should have said.

 

[eyes4crime]

I have never thought or suggested that Shantina intentionally murdered her son. That could be the case, but it seemed like she really loved him.

I blame her for her bizarre and irrational behavior that night. It might not be a crime, but is it responsible for a mother to knock on a complete stranger's door, with her child, at 10:00 p.m? This, we know, FOR SURE, that she did.

Addiction is addiction - once a relapse occurs there is no logic to what one does. A crystal meth addict, herione addict, alcohol, or Oxycontin addict, all have one thing in common: They are driven by the need to feed their addiction and with that, logic goes out the window.

Along with that goes the fact they become vulnerable and make easy prey. LE have found nothing that would indicate 'foul play' and as for the very kind people who tried to help - the ones who gave directions, gave the child pizza, and let Shantina use their phone - these people did the best they could when seeing a child and a lost, confused mom at the door. They are not being pursued by LE, media, or the family. Please, let's leave these innocent people out of this conversation. MOO mho jmho

 

[floridaheather]

It's not the "unsavory" things per se - it's that they tie into a pattern of behavior on the night in question which is consistent with the evidence found.

She was buying jug wine at the same time she was buying a drink for her son.
She was disoriented for hours.
Her son's body washes up on a beach, and was labeled by the coroner an accidental drowning.

It's pretty clear she drowned due to an accident on the beach.


It's sad, it's tragic, and unfortunately it happens.

She probably did drown, but maybe she didn't. But even if she did, I am not convinced that the jug of wine & the disorientation add up to alcohol stupor. NO ONE who spoked w/ her SMELLED alcohol or said she seemed drunk. NOT even the LAST folks to talk to her that night, who answered their door.
EDIT: ok BeanE said that the waitress did say she seemed drunk. I would probably assume that if someone left the food they paid for & tripped on their way to the car, too.

 

[BeanE]

She probably did drown, but maybe she didn't. But even if she did, I am not convinced that the jug of wine & the disorientation add up to alcohol stupor. NO ONE who spoked w/ her SMELLED alcohol or said she seemed drunk. NOT even the LAST folks to talk to her that night, who answered their door.

The waitress at the diner said she seemed to be drunk.