WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #6

[houndstooth]

I think I' must be way behind most of you--I'm not following the trains of thought here! So, sorry if I am taking you all a step back as I try to get up to speed:

I'm still back at the new report of Chamberlain's comments. If it is true that SS and AZ "walked down the beach and that they had the items with them", as Chamberlain has been quoted to say, I find it very strange that of items to bring along those did not include the van keys and SS's wallet (which were found in the van). What, then, would be SS's reasoning for that?

If the van keys in question are those pictured, then it was just that: a van key. No personal keys. So those were taken along with the purse. If you are trying to disappear, then you really don't want to be connected to the driver's license and other cards with that name. And it lends to the appearance of it being accidental somehow. Or to be sure since her body would NOT be found, that the van would be directly traced to her since it was not registered in her name.

 

[BeanE]

If it is true that SS and AZ "walked down the beach and that they had the items with them", as Chamberlain has been quoted to say, I find it very strange that of items to bring along those did not include the van keys and SS's wallet (which were found in the van).

Chamberlain was not quoted as saying that SS and AZ walked down the beach and that they had the items with them. Rather, a blogger from a paid blog site said that Chamberlain said he believes it is more likely they walked down the beach and had the items with them than that the items were washed out to sea.

I believe that is more likely as well, because if they'd washed out to sea, they'd not be anywhere on the beach.

What Chamberlain did quote is available in the past couple pages.

 

[SMK]

Every action of hers from the leaving of cell phone behind to the finding of the staged evidence on the beach speak to her active involvement. There is no other conclusion to be drawn. I would say she has been contemplating it for awhile. Did a trial run of area two weeks ahead of time.

What is the alternative you have in mind that does not involve her?

I see what you mean. I have not viewed her in that light. But yours is a compelling theory. I suppose I had thought of a third party like a secret lover she had been seeing, who sets this up with her only vaguely following directions, unsure of what the gist is, and then it turns deadly....something like that....I viewed her as passive......perhaps I am naiive ?:waitasec::blushing:

 

[BeanE]

Understood, but from all you've read about on this board, you know that more often than not LE won't tip their hand. I don't have proof, just a gut feeling they are digging deeper than we may suspect.

Yes definitely, but I can't get to steps one and two to even consider trying that, which is step three. And without one and two, I don't need three.

 

[slowpoke]

Thank you, Houndstooth, for the explanation. I'll mull that around in my head. Hm.

And BeanE, thank you for the correction. That is an important clarification; I understand what you're saying regarding quotation.

 

[Calliope]

Every action of hers from the leaving of cell phone behind to the finding of the staged evidence on the beach speak to her active involvement. There is no other conclusion to be drawn. I would say she has been contemplating it for awhile. Did a trial run of area two weeks ahead of time.

What is the alternative you have in mind that does not involve her?

Your theory is compelling and of course a possibility. The only question would be where she could have gone and not be recognized? This was national news, Robb was on every network, cable station, local radio, giving newspaper interviews... with such short hair, it would seem to limit her ability to disguise herself. Unless she's waiting for interest to die off and then reappear somewhere. That still would involve a lot of planning, fake IDs, etc.

Robb spoke a lot about how wonderful her life was with him, and how grateful she was for being with him... if your scenario is what actually happened, then what changed all that?

 

[BeanE]

Thank you, Houndstooth, for the explanation. I'll mull that around in my head. Hm.

And BeanE, thank you for the correction. That is an important clarification; I understand what you're saying regarding quotation.

I'm obsessed with quotes lol. We have threads in Gabe's forum just for listing quotes we can refer to.

 

[Jules71]

Your theory is compelling and of course a possibility. The only question would be where she could have gone and not be recognized? This was national news, Robb was on every network, cable station, local radio, giving newspaper interviews... with such short hair, it would seem to limit her ability to disguise herself. Unless she's waiting for interest to die off and then reappear somewhere. That still would involve a lot of planning, fake IDs, etc.

Robb spoke a lot about how wonderful her life was with him, and how grateful she was for being with him... if your scenario is what actually happened, then what changed all that?

Cut hair even shorter, put on a baseball cap, wear guys clothing. It's possible.

 

[SMK]

Your theory is compelling and of course a possibility. The only question would be where she could have gone and not be recognized? This was national news, Robb was on every network, cable station, local radio, giving newspaper interviews... with such short hair, it would seem to limit her ability to disguise herself. Unless she's waiting for interest to die off and then reappear somewhere. That still would involve a lot of planning, fake IDs, etc.

Robb spoke a lot about how wonderful her life was with him, and how grateful she was for being with him... if your scenario is what actually happened, then what changed all that?

That is a good question. I also think Houndstooth's theory is a possibility, and cannot easily be waved away. However, if true, wasn't SS - who if deliberately planned her child's death, would become a monster in my mind, and not the vulnerable girl I have come to feel for - taking alot of chances? Acting lost, ditzy, knocking on doors, stumbling, buying wine: As she had a minor with her, a young child, how did she not know (if she is so cunning and calculating) that someone might not tip off the police: "Check out this license plate. There is a woman really spacey and out of it, with a little boy, see what's up. " :waitasec: IMHO

 

[SMK]

Cut hair even shorter, put on a baseball cap, wear guys clothing. It's possible.

Or wear a blonde wig, of course. BUT if her body washes ashore, so will this theory......

 

[spamelope]

The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain.
Sorry, OT

 

[BeanE]

Websleuths is proud to be an advocate for victims. Members are asked to treat victims with dignity, fairness, and respect.

Please keep in mind that family, friends, and loved ones are also considered victims, unless and until they are named persons of interest or suspects by LE or a credible mainstream media source.

There are currently no named persons of interest or suspects in this case.

Please refrain from casting aspersions on innocent parties.

Thank you for your cooperation, and for your work on this case.

BeanE

"There is no evidence of foul play in this case," Chamberlain said. "Azriel's death still appears to have been accidental and there is no indication Shantina harmed her son or had any intent to harm her son."

Please self-edit your posts accordingly.

 

[Calliope]

I think I' must be way behind most of you--I'm not following the trains of thought here! So, sorry if I am taking you all a step back as I try to get up to speed:

I'm still back at the new report of Chamberlain's comments. If it is true that SS and AZ "walked down the beach and that they had the items with them", as Chamberlain has been quoted to say, I find it very strange that of items to bring along those did not include the van keys and SS's wallet (which were found in the van). What, then, would be SS's reasoning for that?

In the videos, she carries her wallet/keys in the front pocket of her sweatshirt.

Again, from the angle that a third party was involved somehow ...

She DID draw a lot of attention to herself, wandering about for nearly 4 hours. Perhaps she was meeting someone, or maybe he just happened to notice her driving around in circles. It leaves me with a number of questions. We have a timeline, but there is a lot of time unaccounted for; where was she in between video shots of her and Az in stores/parking lots? When did the van sustain the distinctive damage to its passenger side? Where was she that there was mud splashed clear to the roof of the van... yet when found the windshield had obviously been cleaned with the wipers and fluid? What is the description of the bag and purse she allegedly had with her?

Did someone follow or lead her to that beach? Did this person return to the van and toss her keys and wallet inside? Knowing poor little Azriel had drowned, that would certainly have led LE to believe they disappeared from the van itself (and apparently they did believe that ... or SAID they did.)

It was posted above that the house directly above where the items were found is empty and/or for sale. Did this person know that and led them to that spot where it was unlikely they'd be seen or heard? Who would be familiar enough with the area to know that it was possible to walk from where the van was found to the area below this house? Regarding the dogs not picking up a scent, I don't take that as proof they weren't there. Dogs aren't always right... and SS was a smoker. It was posted on the last thread that cigarette smoke interferes with the scent. Maybe that's why they didn't pick it up.

I'm not so sure SS was the one to scope out the area beforehand; from the 911 call and the woman walking the beach (who found the articles), it appears the locals are very vigilant in guarding their beach and would have noticed a stranger who didn't belong snooping about (especially on the private beach where the van was abandoned). Which leads me to believe that if there WAS a third person involved, they were somehow familiar with the area, a local, or had worked/visited there in a way that wouldn't have drawn suspicion from those who lived on and around the beach. BTW, I wonder if any renovations had been done recently to the house up for sale?

 

[SMK]

In the videos, she carries her wallet/keys in the front pocket of her sweatshirt.

Again, from the angle that a third party was involved somehow ...

She DID draw a lot of attention to herself, wandering about for nearly 4 hours. Perhaps she was meeting someone, or maybe he just happened to notice her driving around in circles. It leaves me with a number of questions. We have a timeline, but there is a lot of time unaccounted for; where was she in between video shots of her and Az in stores/parking lots? When did the van sustain the distinctive damage to its passenger side? Where was she that there was mud splashed clear to the roof of the van... yet when found the windshield had obviously been cleaned with the wipers and fluid? What is the description of the bag and purse she allegedly had with her?

Did someone follow or lead her to that beach? Did this person return to the van and toss her keys and wallet inside? Knowing poor little Azriel had drowned, that would certainly have led LE to believe they disappeared from the van itself (and apparently they did believe that ... or SAID they did.)

It was posted above that the house directly above where the items were found is empty and/or for sale. Did this person know that and led them to that spot where it was unlikely they'd be seen or heard? Who would be familiar enough with the area to know that it was possible to walk from where the van was found to the area below this house? Regarding the dogs not picking up a scent, I don't take that as proof they weren't there. Dogs aren't always right... and SS was a smoker. It was posted on the last thread that cigarette smoke interferes with the scent. Maybe that's why they didn't pick it up.

I'm not so sure SS was the one to scope out the area beforehand; from the 911 call and the woman walking the beach (who found the articles), it appears the locals are very vigilant in guarding their beach and would have noticed a stranger who didn't belong snooping about (especially on the private beach where the van was abandoned). Which leads me to believe that if there WAS a third person involved, they were somehow familiar with the area, a local, or had worked/visited there in a way that wouldn't have drawn suspicion from those who lived on and around the beach. BTW, I wonder if any renovations had been done recently to the house up for sale?

Thanks, you raise excellent points and questions.....

 

[Calliope]

If the van keys in question are those pictured, then it was just that: a van key. No personal keys. So those were taken along with the purse. If you are trying to disappear, then you really don't want to be connected to the driver's license and other cards with that name. And it lends to the appearance of it being accidental somehow. Or to be sure since her body would NOT be found, that the van would be directly traced to her since it was not registered in her name.

About the keys...

She had her own car, I suspect she'd have those keys with her and they'd have the house key, etc. The spare key makes sense since Robb loaned her the use of the van to make this trip.

 

[Calliope]

Thank you, Houndstooth, for the explanation. I'll mull that around in my head. Hm.

And BeanE, thank you for the correction. That is an important clarification; I understand what you're saying regarding quotation.

The writer of the article is a member and perhaps can clarify further as to what exactly he said to her.

 

[BeanE]

Thinking of Az. Rest in peace, honey.

 

[SMK]

Cannot figure out:
The items found by the woman and reported by her, and her husband, were located beneath the stairs on the beach. They either washed ashore there, or someone left them or placed them there. Chief Deputy Chamberlain felt it was unlikely they washed ashore, due to their different weights ( they would not have wound up in one area like that).

Lt. Mealy said the high tide was "ferocious" enough to drag SS and Az into the water and cause them to drown....

if that tide is ferocious enough to cause them to be pulled in, and carry Azriel clear to Fox Island and cause Shantina to not be found at all: How is it, then, this same high tide current did not carry away those items found on the beach? if the tide washed those items IN... yet, strong enough to carry out two bodies, why didn't that same tide wash those items out to sea as well?
They were perhaps placed there just before the woman found them? Why does none of this make sense to me??? Any thoughts, or is it just me? I am puzzled......

 

[Calliope]

That is a good question. I also think Houndstooth's theory is a possibility, and cannot easily be waved away. However, if true, wasn't SS - who if deliberately planned her child's death, would become a monster in my mind, and not the vulnerable girl I have come to feel for - taking alot of chances? Acting lost, ditzy, knocking on doors, stumbling, buying wine: As she had a minor with her, a young child, how did she not know (if she is so cunning and calculating) that someone might not tip off the police: "Check out this license plate. There is a woman really spacey and out of it, with a little boy, see what's up. " :waitasec: IMHO

That's a good point. She was taking a HUGE chance that someone might report her, or that by going into so many convenience stores and a diner, a plain-clothes, off-duty or regular ol' officer would see her. At least around here, they'll post LE in and around these stores after dark; some hire off-duty officers to provide security.

 

[SMK]

Thinking of Az. Rest in peace, honey.

What a beautiful child, and that smile is so cute, just like my son used to do at that age ( that is how these little cuties respond to, "Now smile for the camera!") What a doll. :angel::angel::angel: