WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #6

[houndstooth]

What manifestations of a "brain event" are we talking about? It seems highly selective to me. No one noted a slurring of speech. No one noted she could not walk upright. She could apparantly drive a car. The person with migraines was the previous g/f.

It would take a pretty good blow almost to the point of knocking her out to cause the kind of "brain event" I keep hearing about that I don't see the evidence of. She neither purchased nor asked for so much as an aspirin.

I am not drawing the same conclusions. Can you elaborate what points in this direction? And then fit it in to the known actions from the moment she left on the trip. Are you thinking aneurism? A stroke? A strong blow to the head, when, how? Az was unaffected by this accident, just her?

Can someone please fill in the blanks for me?

 

[LCoastMom]

Thanks for posting that Poway. I'm feeling lazy at the moment & didn't want to go & dig up that article again.

When I read that article a few weeks back, I was alarmed that CPS was unable to determine who had committed the abuse. Azriel would have been 5 at the time, and would have been able to say who hurt him, but legally he would be too young to be a witness in a criminal case. I have wondered why CPS was unable to determine who abused Azriel.

I also wondered why Shantina sent Azriel to live with relatives. Did the boyfriend stay living with her (even after being accused of abusing Azriel?), while Az went off to stay with family somewhere else? I posed these same questions awhile ago, after reading the above article.

I know we don't have the answers to these questions, but IMO they're worth wondering about.

Az was 3 at the time...

 

[houndstooth]

LCoastMom, you brought up some interesting ideas and points. It also reminded me of something I was wondering about. If RS was not expected on the trip, and it seems he was not. He shows up, she doesn't. I can just imagine how awkward a situation that was for these two virtual strangers to be thrust together in this search like that.

What did they talk about as they drove? I try putting myself in this position and there are a lot of questions about those actions and inactions that bug me, too. They drove into the what outskirts of Olympia and then turned around and drove back and checked rest stops because of the phone call with grandparents? It's just weird in it's own right. Yet, it does not in my mind connect to the events with SS and Az.

 

[SMK]

Excerpt from LCoast Mom, above:

Rob said his battery was almost dead and he had poor reception, he used stepdads phone while driving around in his truck and called GPA and found she had called from DW's house at 10:10....

In one interview he says they called State Patrol at 9pm another says 10pm; did he call State Patrol and say we got a call she was "here" at 1010?

I think you guys nailed something here, you really made my head spin for a couple moments... Why did they not start the search from there at 10 if they were driving around anyway???
This to me is absolutely crucial, essential , the crux. Wish it could be resolved or followed up on.

 

[BeanE]

What manifestations of a "brain event" are we talking about? It seems highly selective to me. No one noted a slurring of speech. No one noted she could not walk upright. She could apparantly drive a car. The person with migraines was the previous g/f.

It would take a pretty good blow almost to the point of knocking her out to cause the kind of "brain event" I keep hearing about that I don't see the evidence of. She neither purchased nor asked for so much as an aspirin.

I am not drawing the same conclusions. Can you elaborate what points in this direction? And then fit it in to the known actions from the moment she left on the trip. Are you thinking aneurism? A stroke? A strong blow to the head, when, how? Az was unaffected by this accident, just her?

Can someone please fill in the blanks for me?

I've done several posts on it. If you do an Advanced Search in this forum for keyword brain and my name as user name, they should pop right up.

 

[BeanE]

Excerpt from LCoast Mom, above:

Rob said his battery was almost dead and he had poor reception, he used stepdads phone while driving around in his truck and called GPA and found she had called from DW's house at 10:10....

In one interview he says they called State Patrol at 9pm another says 10pm; did he call State Patrol and say we got a call she was "here" at 1010?

I think you guys nailed something here, you really made my head spin for a couple moments... Why did they not start the search from there at 10 if they were driving around anyway???
This to me is absolutely crucial, essential , the crux. Wish it could be resolved or followed up on.

Do we have something that says they didn't search from there within a reasonable amount of time? Do we know for a fact that GPA has caller id and DW's number isn't blocked and all that? Do we know how LE came to be notified and whether they had to subpoena the phone records to get the number from the phone company?

 

[SMK]

Do we have something that says they didn't search from there within a reasonable amount of time? Do we know for a fact that GPA has caller id and DW's number isn't blocked and all that? Do we know how LE came to be notified and whether they had to subpoena the phone records to get the number from the phone company?

Yes, I wish we could answer these things, it might clear the whole matter up. I cannot seem to recall how it was that LE came to know she stopped at the Williams'. Only that the press was told that this was part of the story.

 

[lilcatt]

I saw a picture of a man where she stopped to use the phone, he was not elderly. My thought is she never left the house after using the phone or some on crawled in her car at the house. There is no way she could have found the spot she ended up at in the dark.

 

[LCoastMom]

I saw a picture of a man where she stopped to use the phone, he was not elderly. My thought is she never left the house after using the phone or some on crawled in her car at the house. There is no way she could have found the spot she ended up at in the dark.

She was photographed back at the Mercantile... near 1030...

but I've been saying the same that man is 45 or so why do they keep calling them elderly? Bet he and his wife love that...

 

[gogrannypop]

Azriel was a beautiful child. I truly, in my heart, believe this was a horrible accident. So sad.

 

[SMK]

She was photographed back at the Mercantile... near 1030...

but I've been saying the same that man is 45 or so why do they keep calling them elderly? Bet he and his wife love that...

Right, she was filmed after, so we know she left the house. And it was found that an elderly woman (or couple) are listed as the owners of the house, while this couple resided there. So that may have been the media's mix up.

 

[LCoastMom]

Do we have something that says they didn't search from there within a reasonable amount of time? Do we know for a fact that GPA has caller id and DW's number isn't blocked and all that? Do we know how LE came to be notified and whether they had to subpoena the phone records to get the number from the phone company?

Well, If she told Gpa she was in Olympia how long would it take for LE to trace the call...

Good Point! (D*mn you don't miss a trick), she probably didn't say I'm calling from DS's house on 46th.... These missing people would help so much if they left more information on the trail...

 

[slowpoke]

(snipped, and bolded by me, slowpoke):

Rob said his battery was almost dead and he had poor reception, he used stepdads phone while driving around in his truck and called GPA and found she had called from DW's house at 10:10....

In one interview he says they called State Patrol at 9pm another says 10pm; did he call State Patrol and say we got a call she was "here" at 1010?

I think you guys nailed something here, you really made my head spin for a couple moments... Why did they not start the search from there at 10 if they were driving around anyway???

When RS found out from the grandfather that SS had called him, there was probably a feeling of relief on RS's part that all was fine, although she was lost. Because I'm guessing the grandpa probably said she got directions, so she should be on her way to Castle Rock; she said she's fine. It was at that point that RS then went back to the stepfather's house to wait for her. But when she didn't show up within a couple of hours later, is when they started to worry anew.

I think police may not have had a huge amount of concern initially, as there is no crime or reason for them to be involved when someone simply isn't where someone thinks they are supposed to be, isn't that right? I think not until the van was found the way it was the next day that it became a police matter.

Just my guess but I don't think the grandpa would have had the name/address of the house SS had called from. Perhaps the police got that info through phone records some time after the van was found.

Just my thoughts.

 

[SMK]

(snipped, and bolded by me, slowpoke):



When RS found out from the grandfather that SS had called him, there was probably a feeling of relief on RS's part that all was fine, although she was lost. Because I'm guessing the grandpa probably said she got directions, so she should be on her way to Castle Rock; she said she's fine. It was at that point that RS then went back to the stepfather's house to wait for her. But when she didn't show up within a couple of hours later, is when they started to worry anew.

I think police may not have had a huge amount of concern initially, as there is no crime or reason for them to be involved when someone simply isn't where someone thinks they are supposed to be, isn't that right? I think not until the van was found the way it was the next day that it became a police matter.

Just my guess but I don't think the grandpa would have had the name/address of the house SS had called from. Perhaps the police got that info through phone records some time after the van was found.

Just my thoughts.

Alright, this is fair enough. When he hears from the grandfather that she was in a house, used the phone, got directions , he goes back to the stepfamily home to wait. (He was not thinking of her at this point as a relapsed alcoholic, one would have to assume, or he would not want her driving from Olympia to CR.) According to his timeline, it is only at midnight that they begin to get frantic. Just trying to sort this out in my mind. And then, when the van is found the next morning, then he begins to talk about her as a relapsed alcoholic.

 

[SMK]

Just going back over things, about the unfolding of the initial weekend, to get them straight in my own mind, and to keep track of them here.
From : http://*************.net/index.php?topic=7384.0;wap2That secondary link does not work; here is the primary one: http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d14-Olympia--Desperate-search-for-mother-and-8year-old-son-fiance-believes-could-be-sinisterhttp://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Sea...ear-old-son-fiance-believes-could-be-sinister



TIMELINE:

Saturday:

4:15 p.m. - Simmons stated that at around 4:15 pm. Saturday Smiley called Simmons from their home to let him know she was on her way from their Silverdale home to her visit her stepfather in Castle Rock.

Simmons planned to meet Smiley in Castle Rock later because he had a Boy Scout event to attend that afternoon.

As it turned out, Simmons got out early and was planning to head to Castle Rock on his motorcycle, as Smiley had borrowed his van.

Simmons said Smiley was excited to visit with her step-father who she had not seen in some time. She forgot her cell phone at home.

6:47 p.m. - Simmons said Smiley stopped at a Handy Pantry and called him from a pay phone.

Before 10 p.m. - Smiley stopped at Martin's Café to get food for her son, Azriel.

Around 10 p.m. - Shortly after leaving the café, around 10 p.m., Smiley stopped at a stranger's home to borrow a phone to call her grandparents in Brinnon to let her know she was okay. . She could not reach Simmons because his cell phone battery had died, and was in a poor cellular reception area.. She called her grandfather in Brinnon instead, telling him she was safe and on her way to Castle Rock.

The home where Smiley made that call was 4 or 5 miles, Simmons said, from where the van was found the next morning.

Around midnight - When Smiley did not arrive at her stepfathers home in Castle Rock and no one heard from her, Simmons said he and Smiley'sstepfather drove up and down the highway looking for her. They contacted police and put out a request to check on Smiley and her son.

Police, Simmons, and Smiley's stepfather had no luck finding Smiley and her son.

Sunday:

10:30 a.m. - On Sunday morning her van was spotted in the waters of Dana Passage, which is just north of Olympia. Both doors were open and her wallet was inside but her purse was gone.

The Oregonian Reported that Sunday morning local resident Jim Pribbenow was alerted by a neighbor to the gold 2005 Dodge Caravan on private beachfront property around 10:30 a.m.

“The back hatch and the side door was open,” Pribbenow said. “The front end had gone in the mud and you could see where the wheels had spun in trying to back out.” (the van was back end in the bay)

Simmons, told Q13Fox News that things aren't adding up and he is hoping nothing sinister could have happened to Smiley and her son. He says it doesn't add up that she would even be in the area of Dana Passage.

"Being that it was down a dead-end road, and then going down a dirt road around a bluff to the water makes no sense," said Simmons, "she would not go down that road, it's a dead-end."

Simmons says they don't have any friends in that area, and is hoping nothing sinister may have happened.

Simmons also said he is in contact with Smiley's ex-boyfriend, and her Son’s Father in New York City.

"I'm scared that something bad happened," said Simmons, " and I just want to say to whoever has them, send them home please, just drop them off somewhere, let them be found, let them come home, let them be safe."

 

[slowpoke]

Alright, this is fair enough. When he hears from the grandfather that she was in a house, used the phone, got directions , he goes back to the stepfamily home to wait. (He was not thinking of her at this point as a relapsed alcoholic, one would have to assume, or he would not want her driving from Olympia to CR.) According to his timeline, it is only at midnight that they begin to get frantic. Just trying to sort this out in my mind. And then, when the van is found the next morning, then he begins to talk about her as a relapsed alcoholic.

Hm; thinking--when was it that we started hearing about her alcoholism and how she relapsed a couple of weeks prior (I think it was)?

Could it be the case that the police started asking RS about her alcohol habits after seeing her purchase the jug of wine which was captured on one of the surveillance cameras?

And so maybe it was only then that RS thought her relapse could be a concern (at least in the eyes of the police), because the police started asking questions regarding drinking, and that's when we started hearing him talk of the relapse.

I think he is/was of the mindset that the drinking was all in the past, and her "relapse" of a couple weeks ago was an isolated incident due to special circumstances (his potential cancer diagnosis).

Just my thoughts, of course.

 

[Calliope]

Hm; thinking--when was it that we started hearing about her alcoholism and how she relapsed a couple of weeks prior (I think it was)?

Could it be the case that the police started asking RS about her alcohol habits after seeing her purchase the jug of wine which was captured on one of the surveillance cameras?

And so maybe it was only then that RS thought her relapse could be a concern (at least in the eyes of the police), because the police started asking questions regarding drinking, and that's when we started hearing him talk of the relapse.

I think he is/was of the mindset that the drinking was all in the past, and her "relapse" of a couple weeks ago was an isolated incident due to special circumstances (his potential cancer diagnosis).

Just my thoughts, of course.

It came out during Shep's interview with Robb on FoxNews. That was before the video was released.

 

[Calliope]

http://seadev.bonnint.net/?nid=577&a=15718&p=28&n=Ron & Don talk to missing woman's fiance

Radio interview, done after the news broke that she was a relapsed alcoholic. I don't think Robb told the police before he said something in the interview, because he was adamant that he did not believe she would drink and drive, especially with Azriel in the car so it probably never occurred to him to tell them.

 

[LCoastMom]

Hm; thinking--when was it that we started hearing about her alcoholism and how she relapsed a couple of weeks prior (I think it was)?

Could it be the case that the police started asking RS about her alcohol habits after seeing her purchase the jug of wine which was captured on one of the surveillance cameras?

And so maybe it was only then that RS thought her relapse could be a concern (at least in the eyes of the police), because the police started asking questions regarding drinking, and that's when we started hearing him talk of the relapse.

I think he is/was of the mindset that the drinking was all in the past, and her "relapse" of a couple weeks ago was an isolated incident due to special circumstances (his potential cancer diagnosis).

Just my thoughts, of course.

LE originally claimed they had no proof she had bought wine. A reporter sat with SH Mealy and watched the video and he still claimed they had not found a receipt for the wine.

 

[LCoastMom]

LCoastMom, you brought up some interesting ideas and points. It also reminded me of something I was wondering about. If RS was not expected on the trip, and it seems he was not. He shows up, she doesn't. I can just imagine how awkward a situation that was for these two virtual strangers to be thrust together in this search like that.

What did they talk about as they drove? I try putting myself in this position and there are a lot of questions about those actions and inactions that bug me, too. They drove into the what outskirts of Olympia and then turned around and drove back and checked rest stops because of the phone call with grandparents? It's just weird in it's own right. Yet, it does not in my mind connect to the events with SS and Az.

Robb said he asked her to bring his phone charger - he later said he went and got a charger. He did not say he went and got a charger while he was at home.... Does this mean the charger is missing? or he got the charger before the van was found?

Just going back over things, about the unfolding of the initial weekend, to get them straight in my own mind, and to keep track of them here.
From : http://*************.net/index.php?topic=7384.0;wap2That secondary link does not work; here is the primary one: http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d14-Olympia--Desperate-search-for-mother-and-8year-old-son-fiance-believes-could-be-sinisterhttp://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Sea...ear-old-son-fiance-believes-could-be-sinister



TIMELINE:

Saturday:

4:15 p.m. - Simmons stated that at around 4:15 pm. Saturday Smiley called Simmons from their home to let him know she was on her way from their Silverdale home to her visit her stepfather in Castle Rock.

Simmons planned to meet Smiley in Castle Rock later because he had a Boy Scout event to attend that afternoon.

As it turned out, Simmons got out early and was planning to head to Castle Rock on his motorcycle, as Smiley had borrowed his van.

Simmons said Smiley was excited to visit with her step-father who she had not seen in some time. She forgot her cell phone at home.

<<<<<<<6:47 p.m. - Simmons said Smiley stopped at a Handy Pantry and called him from a pay phone.>>>>>>>

Before 10 p.m. - Smiley stopped at Martin's Café to get food for her son, Azriel.

Around 10 p.m. - Shortly after leaving the café, around 10 p.m., Smiley stopped at a stranger's home to borrow a phone to call her grandparents in Brinnon to let her know she was okay. . She could not reach Simmons because his cell phone battery had died, and was in a poor cellular reception area.. She called her grandfather in Brinnon instead, telling him she was safe and on her way to Castle Rock.

The home where Smiley made that call was 4 or 5 miles, Simmons said, from where the van was found the next morning.

Around midnight - When Smiley did not arrive at her stepfathers home in Castle Rock and no one heard from her, Simmons said he and Smiley'sstepfather drove up and down the highway looking for her. They contacted police and put out a request to check on Smiley and her son.

Police, Simmons, and Smiley's stepfather had no luck finding Smiley and her son.

respectfully snipped <<<BBM>>>

Did he name the Handy Pantry at the 645 phone call? Because she wasn't at HP til 8PM!!! ( 7:54 )