WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #6

[PaulR]

The grandparents did not get the call until around 10pm. They were several hours late then. Yet, he did not think to call to check with them before to see if they had heard from her until...yes indeed. They had JUST heard from her. Coincidence? I don't think so. I think he saw there number come up on her phone. Then he made a big deal of making the point he used the STEPDAD's phone to call them back.

Wait - how? She used the Williams phone, called her grandparents, her phone wouldn't have shown any activity at all. :waitasec:

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

No matter how I read it, it says her bag was found. I've never heard anyone in my life say 'her bag was found not'. :waitasec:

I read it as if they left out to be as in "her bag was found not (to be) in the van." This is the first I have heard it was found - do you know where they found it? And is this bag as in overnight bag or bag as in handbag or purse????

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Basically it's like someone saying:

We found the bag was missing.

This doesn't mean the bag was found. They are using the word "found" in place of something else like realized, discovered, determined --or-- he is omitting words to shorten things.

The bag was found not to be in the van.

I truly believe his statement was saying they did not find the bag.

Should have read farther in the thread before posting.

 

[sorrell skye]

There was a missing flier that was put out that said on it that her overnight bag had been found.

Based on the wording (not grammatically correct - sounded like the way Yoda would talk) on the flier, I could never figure out if the overnight bag had been found or not.

Snipped from flier (BBM):

"Purse was missing but personnel items were in car. She originally had an overnight bag it was found not in car."

http://www.robbsimmons.com/Flyer.pdf

ETA: Oh - I see the wording on the flier has already been discussed. Apologies for being redundant.

I haven't been able to ascertain if (according to the flier) her overnight bag was found, but somewhere else (not in the car), or if, after searching the van, the overnight bag wasn't found.

I haven't read any media reports or updates that give any info about the overnight bag, so I've assumed it wasn't found. I wish the wording on that flier was more grammatically correct.

 

[slowpoke]

Um, that article you linked to doesn't say that at all. Please correct your quote!

The quote is from the video at the link, not from the text of the article.

 

[SMK]

The quote is from the video at the link, not from the text of the article.

Ah HAH, that explains that, thanks!!!

 

[PaulR]

The quote is from the video at the link, not from the text of the article.

Thanks.

Wonder how he found out. Bottles of beer/wine hidden in the house?

 

[SMK]

Thanks.

Wonder how he found out. Bottles of beer/wine hidden in the house?

Maybe so. Which is why he should have been doubly concerned about her driving separately from him, for 2 hours, with a child....

 

[BeanE]

Yes, it is a lot of "maybes, possiblys, ifs". Yet I still intuitively feel it to be right, but there is no one that need agree with me. I think, possibly, he may have wanted to omit the talking to them altogether, but knew he could not. He DID admit talking to them, and right around the time SHE had, as well. Something very odd, at this point. She is not heard from again. Maybe he felt he failed her, by NOT looking? Really , this is conjecture, so pay it no mind. It resonates with spirit and intuition, but not facts. Sometimes this is a powerful tool, sometimes a total flop. I will think on it some more.....

SMK, please help me understand, because I don't.

You're making up a bunch of stuff that a bunch of people did so that you can pretend that Robb murdered Shantina.

Help me understand the point of that please. Help me to understand what that helps, how that makes the world better, how that makes life better.

Why do we need another murder in the world? Why do we need another crime? more tragedy? another bad guy? another criminal? another murdered woman, murdered mother, murdered child? Do we not have enough?

Why do we need Robb to be a murderer, a bad guy, a criminal? Why Robb? Why not the stepfather? Or Mr. Grimmer? Or Lt Mealy? Or the guy in the convenience store? Or you? Or me? Did Robb do something to you? Did he do something to someone else? Did he do anything except think he was going to have dinner and an evening with the woman he loved and her child?

Is what happened here not bad enough? Not bloody enough? Not exciting enough? Not sensational enough? Not vicious enough? Not tragic enough? Not painful enough?

Please help me to understand this, because for the love of good God in heaven above, I just don't.

 

[sorrell skye]

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nat...-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html

"I didn't see her drinking, but I knew she was drinking..."

So, it appears she was taking measures to hide it from him, otherwise he would have said he saw her drinking. I wonder how he knew she was drinking? Did he smell it on her? Did he find empties in the recycle bin?

And if he "knew she was drinking" I wonder if he said anything to her about it.

ETA: His comments about her drinking are in the video @ the link.

 

[sorrell skye]

In this same video at this link, RS talks about proposing to SS the week before her disappearance.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nat...-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html

I've seen a pic of her somewhere that showed an engagement ring on her left-hand ring finger. I'll see if I can locate the link to that pic.

 

[elf69]

She was at the Handy Pantry at 7:50 buying wine and looking at a map. http://www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/Watch-Missing-woman-buying-wine-88296007.html

10 mins later she is at safeway getting directions again. http://www.king5.com/video/featured...way-surveillance-video-view-one-88264282.html

Thurston County Chief Deputy Jim Chamberlain says, "I can't tell you if she bought wine or not but it wasn't on the receipt we found and nobody has mentioned to me in the interviews that she bought any wine."

If you look at this video as she is doing something in the front passenger seat, it appears as if she throws the receipt on the ground.

http://www.kirotv.com/video/22871326/index.html

I can't seem to find the Martin Way diner video or the Gulf Harbor Merchantile video.

 

[bobcat]

The clocks don't change til midnight Sat-Sun... he still had 5 hours and 15 minutes at the 645 call.

Actually the time change is at 2 a.m.

 

[elf69]

In this same video at this link, RS talks about proposing to SS the week before her disappearance.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nat...-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html

I've seen a pic of her somewhere that showed an engagement ring on her left-hand ring finger. I'll see if I can locate the link to that pic.

I believe he proposed moving the wedding date. From my understanding based on their respective Myspaces, they were already engaged.

 

[houndstooth]

I do not think RS participated in what happened to SS and Az. It appears to me that he skewed the facts a bit to investigators and the media. I think he did not want to appear controlling or that anything was amiss in the relationship. He did not come forward honestly with what dynamics were going on between them. I felt that it had more to do with ego than malice. In my mind his actions point to someone who felt she was either leaving or having an affair. When they were missing I did not get the sense that he feared anything more than that she was perhaps "shacking up" with some guy. I say that based on his "in somebody's basement" comments, his evasion over her cellphone and his rushing down in a haphazzard manner to Castle Rock.

When Az's body was found. I think he may have realized then he had made a mistake about what was going on. He should not have made it appear that everything was rosy in their relationship. He should have been absolutely forthright about everything that happened that day and prior to it. Because he did not LE wasted valuable time that could have been spent looking with a different mindset about the case and the facts.

That may be why he has retracted some of his earlier online postings. In fact, by not being completely honest with investigators even if he was fudging a bit here and there thinking what harm will it do? He has cast himself in a suspicious light, probably unnecessarily.

 

[elf69]

SMK, please help me understand, because I don't.

You're making up a bunch of stuff that a bunch of people did so that you can pretend that Robb murdered Shantina.

Help me understand the point of that please. Help me to understand what that helps, how that makes the world better, how that makes life better.

Why do we need another murder in the world? Why do we need another crime? more tragedy? another bad guy? another criminal? another murdered woman, murdered mother, murdered child? Do we not have enough?

Why do we need Robb to be a murderer, a bad guy, a criminal? Why Robb? Why not the stepfather? Or Mr. Grimmer? Or Lt Mealy? Or the guy in the convenience store? Or you? Or me? Did Robb do something to you? Did he do something to someone else? Did he do anything except think he was going to have dinner and an evening with the woman he loved and her child?

Is what happened here not bad enough? Not bloody enough? Not exciting enough? Not sensational enough? Not vicious enough? Not tragic enough? Not painful enough?

Please help me to understand this, because for the love of good God in heaven above, I just don't.

I believe that SMK is trying to point out the inconsistencies in RS story. There is another inconsistency: April6, 2010, RS posted that the media liked to chop up his words for drama saying that he has cancer! Well in every news interview with him HE was the one saying he had cancer. Now -- I do not think that RS did anything to her but I do believe there is far more to the story than what he has shared. And, there could be a very good explanation for that also -- The LE may have instructed him to keep his mouth shut and are holding some valuable information close to their vests. JMO

 

[sorrell skye]

I believe he proposed moving the wedding date. From my understanding based on their respective Myspaces, they were already engaged.

Correct - in the video, he talked about "moving up their wedding date" due to "serious medical issues" he was afraid he might be facing. "If it's serious, ya know, let's go get married right now. Let's get married, let's get all my affairs in order..."

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nat...-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html

In the video @ the link.

 

[LCoastMom]

So I have been reading all the posts over the last few days and finally catching up. And here's a few pointers that leave me pretty perplexed...and have me leaning towards the possibility that she was hiding / running from RS.

For ease of answering I made you green and my answers blue
Who’s van was it again? RS’s?

Rob said the van was given to them by his parents to use for road trips, he also said she was so appreciative that she wouldn't even smoke a ciggy in the van.

I also believe Shantina may have been checking maps at the convenience stores to actually find a place to hide…like previous location she had been to in the area, and not to find the freeway.

I could have sworn one of the early statements was she asked for directions to someplace in Olympia, I believe they were referring to the Safeway tape but as I haven't found it again I wouldn't say for sure.

If she had been in contact with someone (to run away with), wouldn’t they know from her phone, internet records? If she ran away with someone, it would have to be with someone she trusted….someone she’s known for quite some time. There would be some sort of evidence that she was in contact with them, whether it be her cell phone or Facebook?

Since it appears that her social networks are public she would have to be careful about what was said. But since one can write private messages on FB we can only hope LE has been there done that already.

No other bags, overnight items, etc., ever turned up? Her purse is missing…she took that with her. A big deal IMO. Could mean she planned to run away.

I thought early on it was mentioned (maybe by Robb) that she had an overnight bag with her, that is unaccounted for. There are some early items that are no longer up for rechecking.

I am very curious about what if anything might be missing from the house and if she was wearing her pretty engagement ring when she left for CR or if she left it at home.

The next day residents found Shantina's van stuck in the water, her wallet was on the seat but her purse was missing, her keys were on the dashboard, and her overnight bag was missing. The side door and back hatch were open, Shantina and Azriel were nowhere to be found.

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Sea...missing-fiance-holds-out-hope-shell-come-home

And I’m wondering about the items left on the beach….found a whole day or more later. Did anyone ever confirm that the tide does not reach all the way up to the shoreline?

I believe LE has (Chief Criminal Deputy Jim Chamberlain addressed the items were not washed up but left.

It was interesting that the items belonging to Shantina and Azriel found on the beach were just below the housing development where this house [ in which pounding at 1 am on the night of the vanishing was reported ] is located. The items were about 50-60 yards from the house, just down a steep stairway," Chamberlain said.

He found it peculiar, he said, that the items would all be found at the same location on the beach. Chamberlain said he does not believe the items were washed out to sea as originally believed because of the difference in weight and size of the items. He believes it is more likely Shantina and Azriel walked down the beach and that they had the items with them.

"It is unlikely they would all float to that spot," Chamberlain said.

Chamberlain said. "Azriel's death still appears to have been accidental and there is no indication Shantina harmed her son or had any intent to harm her son."

http://www..com/contributed...till-a-mystery

Also, if there was foul play of any sort, AZ would have possibly have evidence on him (bruises, scrapes, skin under his nails).

I was wondering, because the water was so cold if something happened close to the beach, would it would have prevented any bruises he may have received in a struggle from developing? Possibly anything under his nails could have been washed away? Any serious injury would have been obvious, but maybe lighter superficial wounds would have gone unnoticed. I have no idea how that would work but I have thought about it...

Shantina never called called the Steps to see if RS found their home even. Very curious.

Did she have their phone numbers with? I know when my friends and I were her age we must have 15 or 2o numbers memorized; this generation - not so much; as Mark Fuhrman (SP?) said, this generation - leaving their phone at home is like leaving their kidney at home (or something like that..)

Rob said he asked her to marry him that week prior to her disappearing. This is intriguing. A definity possibility IMO that she was trying to bail.

I saw this quasi push up the date proposal on abc, ''if I am terminally ill let's go get hitched and get my affairs in order." I am sure he had the purest intentions - with an ex-wife and 2 kids in the picture - he may very well have only wanted her to be protected if he should die sooner rather than later. But being woman I can see where this would have been easy to turn down.

And here's a VERY good point: <<After all, it's a well known fact that she grew up in the Puget Sound area - therefore, IMO, she would have knowledge of the highs & lows of the tides>>.

And I definitely, respectfully, think that LE know more than they are revealing. "Something" is missing here.

I hope you are right, their statements have not been encouraging. But they have much more to go off of than we have seen - I hope - phone, bank and computer records. One thing that I have found interesting is how few people have stepped forward in her defense. Her family and fringe friends like the long ago ex hubby but only 1 classmate and 1 Boy Scout mom/co-leader. Could it be LE has asked them to keep a low profile?

 

[sorrell skye]

Here's a pic of SS eating a delicious-looking apple fritter. She's also wearing an engagement ring on her left-hand ring finger.

The photos at the link were posted on March 6, 2009, according to the date-stamp. So, it appears they were engaged on that trip to the Gorge in Oregon, at least a week before her disappearance.

Here's the link for the pic:

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...immons.wordpress.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[LCoastMom]

The overnight camp is on that calendar as well. He says in an interview he was in training for the 'outdoor experience', the one that ended at 4.

A link to his timeline is on this post.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - WA WA-Shantina Smiley, 29, Msg & Azriel Carver, 8, found deceased, #6

Calliope, Thank you very much for the info about the time line.