WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #6

[elf69]

Well, certainly those kinds of scenarios have taken place , tragic as they are, so I cannot blame you for thinking it might be the case here as well. However, along with my other feelings, and the fact that she was applying for a full time position, and had other solid things going on as well, and her Grandma is so sure she could never leave her son or stop calling her, that she is all for holding a memorial service soon : No scent of her , nor any sighting, has been detected away from the beach.

If I were family, I would organize search parties every weekend and canvass the areas where the van and items were found and then move onto canvassing the beaches. In the very least, they might find the other missing items and maybe even her. In other missing people cases there was extensive canvassing done every weekend for months. JMO

 

[twzzlrgirl]

bbm

Perhaps she tried to save Azriel. Perhaps he lost his breath when they stepped into the cold water, lost his balance and fell down. It was dark, no moon. I can see a mother not giving up, until she as well, succumbed to the elements.

I hope she was trying to save him...honestly, nothing breaks my heart more than the Caylee Anthony's of this world who should be able to count on a parent and can't. I'd so unbelievably sad.

 

[RubyRed]

I hope she was trying to save him...honestly, nothing breaks my heart more than the Caylee Anthony's of this world who should be able to count on a parent and can't. I'd so unbelievably sad.

I hope she did as well. I can't imagine her living with the guilt if she didn't. I know I sure could not live with it. Especially if I was the reason he drowned.
I want to think Azriel had a little bit of comfort before he drowned, because if he didn't that just breaks my heart. Just seeing the videos, and knowing what was about to happen, is surreal.

 

[SMK]

If I were family, I would organize search parties every weekend and canvass the areas where the van and items were found and then move onto canvassing the beaches. In the very least, they might find the other missing items and maybe even her. In other missing people cases there was extensive canvassing done every weekend for months. JMO

I agree. I just could not plan a memorial service unless I had left no stone unturned. I would be obsessed, and unable to think/do anything but look, look, question....

 

[cjoosten]

I had seen it reported (cannot remember where) by mainstream media that the T shirt was around his head, but this would most likely be from the water and currents before being washed ashore.

In the video where Shantina is buying the wine, Azriel is wearing a white shirt.....where the report said "red shirt". Maybe nothing, but still something.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

bbm

Perhaps she tried to save Azriel. Perhaps he lost his breath when they stepped into the cold water, lost his balance and fell down. It was dark, no moon. I can see a mother not giving up, until she as well, succumbed to the elements.

That is what I think happened to Shantina.

Despite all her bad choices and stupid mistakes, I think she died trying to reach Azriel.

Or at least that is the best picture I can paint at the moment.

 

[twzzlrgirl]

I hope she did as well. I can't imagine her living with the guilt if she didn't. I know I sure could not live with it. Especially if I was the reason he drowned.
I want to think Azriel had a little bit of comfort before he drowned, because if he didn't that just breaks my heart. Just seeing the videos, and knowing what was about to happen, is surreal.

Yes...it's very eerie to be watching them knowing what we know, and realizing they don't have any idea (in the photos) what's about to happen. It's awful. I feel so badly when children die...I feel like it effects everyone else that's left behind. And not just the family -- that we're all a little worse off when something like this happens.

 

[jmarple]

bbm

Perhaps she tried to save Azriel. Perhaps he lost his breath when they stepped into the cold water, lost his balance and fell down. It was dark, no moon. I can see a mother not giving up, until she as well, succumbed to the elements.

I think you may be right about succumbing to the elements.

In addition to the dark and the cold water, it was very cold outside that night--30 degrees. It is hard for me to imagine them walking up and down the beach in the cold and the dark and perhaps without shoes. Remember Shantina was barefoot at the couple's home. They would have had more shelter from the cold in the car (until the tide came in anyway). This is all very puzzling.

 

[RubyRed]

I think you may be right about succumbing to the elements.

In addition to the dark and the cold water, it was very cold outside that night--30 degrees. It is hard for me to imagine them walking up and down the beach in the cold and the dark and perhaps without shoes. Remember Shantina was barefoot at the couple's home. They would have had more shelter from the cold in the car (until the tide came in anyway). This is all very puzzling.

You bring up a good point about the temperature that night. I can't see it being an enjoyable walk, on the beach, with bare feet, icy cold water, very chilly air temperatures and very dark. It really is very hard to comprehend this. It defies logic. We may never know what truly happened that fateful night.

 

[twzzlrgirl]

You bring up a good point about the temperature that night. I can't see it being an enjoyable walk, on the beach, with bare feet, icy cold water, very chilly air temperatures and very dark. It really is very hard to comprehend this. It defies logic. We may never know what truly happened that fateful night.

Of course, part of the problem is, if she had been drinking, she might not have felt the cold as acutely and/or may not have really cared. Of course and 8 year old boy would be up for almost anything, and a cold walk on the beach might sound like a great "adventure." Sadly, at that point, no one would have been thinking clearly/maturely enough to keep them out of harms' way.

 

[slowpoke]

Hi everyone, a case archive album is started for Shantina and Azriel.

Work in progress, but if you want to take a look, the link:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina Smiley - Azriel Carver/

Wow, this is an impressive job of collating and organizing. Everything in one place! There are many things I hadn't seen before, like the various ones of the search dogs, for example--you even have the dogs' names!

Thank you so much for creating this, and for sharing it with us.

 

[fullofsecrets]

What if SS's intentions were less than pleasant once she exited the freeway that night? Although this area of Washington is dark, somewhat rural once you leave the city center, and not all streets are well marked; it seems really implausible that a woman with a young child would continue to drive aimlessly after repeatedly getting directions. It has been mentioned before that she could have asked for someone to lead her back to the freeway entrance, and I am certain that any one of the clerks she asked for directions would have written them down for her or let her use a pen to do so herself. Also, we can see from security tapes that she drives in the opposite direction from what she was told to reach the freeway as she leaves the Handy Pantry. I myself have a rotten sense of direction and am not suggesting that she wasn't lost, but it strikes me as odd that after all those attempts she never got close to getting back on the Interstate. In fact, turning left OR right from the Handy Pantry on Division will lead you to the freeway, and from the Safeway gas station where she stopped it is a straight shot to the freeway. I have felt from the moment they found the van this was not an accident, and that perhaps SS was driving aimlessly to work up the courage to either run away from the situation she was facing (reconnecting with her step-father) or perhaps take her own life. It is also entirely possible that their is foul-play involved or that it was indeed a unfortunate accident, but the last call she made was to her grandparents (perhaps reaching out to say good bye or hear a loved ones voice?) as opposed to RS or someone who was waiting for her at her destination and would be worried about her not arriving. JMO.

 

[RubyRed]

:Welcome-12-june: fullofsecrets

 

[PaulR]

If I were family, I would organize search parties every weekend and canvass the areas where the van and items were found and then move onto canvassing the beaches. In the very least, they might find the other missing items and maybe even her. In other missing people cases there was extensive canvassing done every weekend for months. JMO

There are a lot of bodies in the mountains out here in Washington. Sometimes SAR recovers the body. Sometimes they don't. Families can only do so much in those circumstances.

 

[elf69]

There are a lot of bodies in the mountains out here in Washington. Sometimes SAR recovers the body. Sometimes they don't. Families can only do so much in those circumstances.

I know I camp all the time and like to go "exploring" up old logging roads and often times wonder aloud about how many dead bodies are out there. I shudder to think about that, but it's probably true. On the other hand, there wasn't any canvassing done initially and I have found that quite odd. The only person that said they were going to leave "no stone unturned" was Jay when he flew in from NY.

 

[elf69]

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10150133110780096&ref=mf

The latest from RS!

 

[Calliope]

BODY FLOAT INFORMATION

WATER TEMPERATURE / DAYS TO SURFACE:

40 degrees 14-20 days
50 degrees 10-14 days
60 degrees 7-10 days
70 degrees 3-7 days
80 degrees 1-2 days

1. Victims that have drowned in 30-40 degree water will not surface until
water warms.

2. Victims that are 100 feet or deeper may not surface at all due to the
combination of pressure and temperature.

VARIABLES THAT AFFECT FLOAT TIME

1. When and What food was last consumed (foods high in carbohydrates:
beer, soft drinks, hot dogs, potato chips) produce gases faster.

2. Medications, drugs, or alcohol.

3. Body composition – skinny, muscular, obese. (fat float quicker).

4. Age, weight, and height of victim.

5. Activity at the time of drowning (hunting, fishing, swimming, skiing).

6. Suicidal drowning – self weighting, stacked clothing.

7. Type and layers of clothing worn including footwear (heavier winter
clothing of hip boots).

8. Gases produced in the intestinal tract are: methane, hydrogen sulfide, and
carbon dioxide. These gases are soluble in water and compressible.

9. Any visible body wounds – previous or after drowning?

10. Type of water: River, Quarry, Lake, Pond, Freshwater, Saltwater?

11. Bottom temperature – currents, spring fed, stagnate, polluted water
presents different problems for determining bacteria in intestinal tract.

12. Pressure exerted holding victim down varies with depth of water.

13. Any debris – stumps, trees, fence, fishing line that could cause
entanglement. Water sheds and most State Parks are flooded farm land.

14. Adult men and women on the bottom weigh about 6-15 lbs. negative.
Children weigh less and may not sink unless intentionally weighted. Some
kids will float face up.

15. Victims who are dead before they enter the water will not sink and float.
We had a victim travel 175 miles in 3 days who was thrown in the river
from a motorcycle accident.

16. Most adult victims will float face down due to the weight of arms and legs. They float just like you recover a victim from the bottom face down.

http://www.twinquarries.com/nurri/index.htm

I'm finding current data showing water temps in the 40's, but having no luck locating temps from last month. I think it would be safe to say they were close to if not below 40.

 

[Jules71]

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10150133110780096&ref=mf

The latest from RS!

So to paraphrase from fb - He says he is still hoping she will show up alive and come home. He also says he had another medical test and it is not cancer and wishes Kat and Az were here to share his good news.

I too am one who doesn't understand how anyone could have a memorial service for someone who is missing and not known for sure to be deceased. Especially since the hope she is still alive is there. Does anyone know who decided to go forward with the services? I am thinking it might be her grandparents because it is in Brinnon. So maybe they truly feel she is gone - but RS is holding out hope. Tough situation.

 

[Calliope]

So to paraphrase from fb - He says he is still hoping she will show up alive and come home. He also says he had another medical test and it is not cancer and wishes Kat and Az were here to share his good news.

I too am one who doesn't understand how anyone could have a memorial service for someone who is missing and not known for sure to be deceased. Especially since the hope she is still alive is there. Does anyone know who decided to go forward with the services? I am thinking it might be her grandparents because it is in Brinnon. So maybe they truly feel she is gone - but RS is holding out hope. Tough situation.

He announced this service on 3/27, but there had been an earlier announcement of a service (that post has since been deleted) posted not long after Azriel was ID'd. I want to say the original memorial for Shantina was to be on 4/1, but that can't be right (middle of the week) so I believe it was for this past weekend. It was in the first week of April, whatever the date. He deleted that post after the date was changed.

 

[Knox]

Calliope I am borrowing your link on body float information for another thread, great find.