WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #6

[Calliope]

I think I imagined that those items were in a bag: And then, if a confrontation and a chase ensued , the child may have hurled some of the items in desperation. (One does tend to throw things if one is being chased; as a child, I would do this even if it was fun chasing, to be tickled, etc.) But then, I got this idea from reading someone's theory, and it sort of "stuck". Also, if those items were "left" there to give the impression they went up the stairs (as someone suggested) why would they feel all of those items should be left???

I think she left the van in a hurry, not even bothering to shut the door and hatch. I also suspect she had a tote or bag of some sort. It would be nice if LE or Robb would give a description of the bag and purse.

 

[SMK]

I think she left the van in a hurry, not even bothering to shut the door and hatch. I also suspect she had a tote or bag of some sort. It would be nice if LE or Robb would give a description of the bag and purse.

Yes, that is what I had thought: A "tote" bag. I know when my own son was small ( say ages 5-8) I would often carry my wallet in a pocket, and instead of a purse, would have a tote, like a gym bag, so that I could have hairbrush, and his things (balls, etc. ) all in one place. So I did not imagine them carrying wine, inhaler, ball, shoe, in their hands, but in a tote, which was either dropped , grabbed, or the items hurled to ward off a chaser....But then why the man's shoe???:waitasec:

 

[houndstooth]

If there is no obvious footprints then how do you account for some mad chase scene. Wouldn't that have left some evidence of occuring? Isn't there a house at the top of the stairs? Does no one live there? IF someone does how come their house was not knocked at? Yet a house some distance away was? Not at the front door as might be expected but on the garage door??

I think the items were dropped at these stairs to appear like they went up them. But on around the bend there is a pier and more access at the end of the main road there. When I look at the map that is what I imagine. Leaving via the dead end of Island View Dr. N. E.

 

[floridaheather]

read this:
http://ww.examiner.com/x-34328-Seat...no-foul-play-suspected-Shantina-still-missing

 

[SMK]

read this:
http://ww.examiner.com/x-34328-Seat...no-foul-play-suspected-Shantina-still-missing

Yes, we had read that, thanks for bringing it here again, because it is very important, in so far as what Chamberlain says about the items, and their being 50-60 yards below the house where the pounding occurred. Makes you stop and think....:waitasec:

 

[SMK]

If there is no obvious footprints then how do you account for some mad chase scene. Wouldn't that have left some evidence of occuring? . . .

I suppose I thought that the tide came in, and washed it all away. The items were there, but no footprints. Someone was there, yet left no trace, so I thought it was the water.....It IS confusing.....:waitasec:

 

[BeanE]

Per the sheriff's office, according to witnesses and videos, Shantina was accompanied only by Azriel:

Shantina was accompanied by only her son according to the witnesses and various store videos that we have been able to access.

http://www.co.thurston.wa.us/sheriff/hp-docs/press-releases/press-release-20100315.pdf

 

[PaulR]

I suppose I thought that the tide came in, and washed it all away. The items were there, but no footprints. Someone was there, yet left no trace, so I thought it was the water.....It IS confusing.....:waitasec:

The person who found the items probably wasn't looking for any footprints, etc. She was just picking up stuff on the beach.

The problem with anyone saying "but all those items were together" is that we don't have much proof - like a photo - that points out how close those items were together when found.

 

[SMK]

The person who found the items probably wasn't looking for any footprints, etc. She was just picking up stuff on the beach.

The problem with anyone saying "but all those items were together" is that we don't have much proof - like a photo - that points out how close those items were together when found.

Yes, I had always wondered how they were scattered, how far apart. I know in a news report, it had said that the woman had assumed it was random trash, and was going to throw it out, until her husband pointed out that they might be related to the case of the missing Mom and boy, and that they should call LE. Good thing!!

 

[PaulR]

Yes, I had always wondered how they were scattered, how far apart. I know in a news report, it had said that the woman had assumed it was random trash, and was going to throw it out, until her husband pointed out that they might be related to the case of the missing Mom and boy, and that they should call LE. Good thing!!

Exactly. And given it was what, a few days between her finding it and reporting it, and that she probably was not keeping notes when picking it up because to her it was just "trash" - she probably can't tell us for certain how close everything was.

The tote bag idea though - actually if this was all relatively close together, the explanation may just be that everything was in a tote bag, which released all its contents close to the point where the articles were found. The tote bag, being heavier and probably soaked with water by this point, may have been too heavy to wash ashore with the items inside it.

 

[houndstooth]

I suppose I thought that the tide came in, and washed it all away. The items were there, but no footprints. Someone was there, yet left no trace, so I thought it was the water.....It IS confusing.....:waitasec:

As I have noted before, it would seem irresponsible to build stairs like that on anything but ground above the high tide mark. But, the whole looking for footprints on a beach is kinda like an exercise in futility in a way. You don't know when or who left ones above the high water mark. But considering it's a restricted private beach it would be less travelled. As for leaving behind "prints" when running it would just be impressions left that would be deeper and wider spaced, more dug out on the toe. Sometimes the water will linger in these "holes". I am thinking of my local beaches and how the water/sand behaves. Here it is a fine texture. The beach there looks similar from the Bing Maps. Although the area where she parked has a harder packed texture because it was left in an area that is obviously within the tidal range.

I don't know anyone who would venture out onto that kind of sand. You are looking to get stranded. I think that is what was intended. Then a hasty exit and shoes off over that creek inlet onto the beach on the other side and down towards the stairs. I see what appears to be a staging of items. Who the man's shoe was or was intended to appear as, is anybody's guess. But I do not think they went up them. I think they went on towards the pier area. Now what may have transpired at the pier is a question in my mind.

 

[houndstooth]

The person who found the items probably wasn't looking for any footprints, etc. She was just picking up stuff on the beach.

The problem with anyone saying "but all those items were together" is that we don't have much proof - like a photo - that points out how close those items were together when found.

I agree there is no proof. Yet, the sense I got from reading the accounts was that they were not found one here, one there, but rather loosely found in a single location.

 

[Calliope]

I suppose I thought that the tide came in, and washed it all away. The items were there, but no footprints. Someone was there, yet left no trace, so I thought it was the water.....It IS confusing.....:waitasec:

Exactly.

 

[Calliope]

The person who found the items probably wasn't looking for any footprints, etc. She was just picking up stuff on the beach.

The problem with anyone saying "but all those items were together" is that we don't have much proof - like a photo - that points out how close those items were together when found.

Well, we have the Chief Deputy saying they were.

"It was interesting that the items belonging to Shantina and Azriel found on the beach were just below the housing development where this house is located. The items were about 50-60 yards from the house, just down a steep stairway," Chamberlain said.

He found it peculiar, he said, that the items would all be found at the same location on the beach. Chamberlain said he does not believe the items were washed out to sea as originally believed because of the difference in weight and size of the items. He believes it is more likely Shantina and Azriel walked down the beach and that they had the items with them.

"It is unlikely they would all float to that spot," Chamberlain said. "Perhaps they walked down the beach and became trapped by the incoming tide, or they tried climbing the steep stairs and slipped, getting trapped in the water."

 

[PaulR]

Well, we have the Chief Deputy saying they were.

The Chief Deputy wasn't there when the items were picked up. How does he know whether they were found a yard apart or twenty yards apart?

 

[houndstooth]

The Chief Deputy wasn't there when the items were picked up. How does he know whether they were found a yard apart or twenty yards apart?

I would imagine they questioned the witness and it was from her accounts it was determined. She probably took the officers there and showed them the approximate location. Spot.

 

[SMK]

The Chief Deputy wasn't there when the items were picked up. How does he know whether they were found a yard apart or twenty yards apart?

I would assume - although I certainly cannot say with any certainty - that since these items were thought to be part of the Shantina and son disapperence (which is why he was called by the woman and her husband to come see and retrieve the items) he must have filed a report, and part of that report would be his asking, "Now, when you saw these items, were they floating, or on the sand, or scattered all over an area, or all in one spot?" and she must have answered that they were all in one spot. Just a thought, a conjecture. . . I think Houndstooth and I just posted at the same time with the same thought!!

 

[PaulR]

I would imagine they questioned the witness and it was from her accounts it was determined. She probably took the officers there and showed them the approximate location. Spot.

Except, as I was talking about earlier, you are asking someone who found the items a few days earlier, who at the time thought that the items were just garbage and had no significance, and thus had no reason to make special note about exactly where each item was found.

 

[Calliope]

The Chief Deputy wasn't there when the items were picked up. How does he know whether they were found a yard apart or twenty yards apart?

Well, gee... even a novice police officer would ask "where did you find these items?"

C'mon. Seriously now...

 

[PaulR]

I would assume - although I certainly cannot say with any certainty - that since these items were thought to be part of the Shantina and son disapperence (which is why he was called by the woman and her husband to come see and retrieve the items) he must have filed a report, and part of that report would be his asking, "Now, when you saw these items, were they floating, or on the sand, or scattered all over an area, or all in one spot?" and she must have answered that they were all in one spot. Just a thought, a conjecture. . .

OK, good. Now, let's run with that.

How far apart would the items need to be apart for you to consider it "one spot"? Literally right on top of one another? A foot? A yard? A few yards?

What number was the officer thinking of when he asked that question?

What number is the Chief Deputy thinking of?