WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #7

[Calliope]

Here ya go (sorry I screwed up and edited the original post >< )

BODY FLOAT INFORMATION

WATER TEMPERATURE / DAYS TO SURFACE:

40 degrees 14-20 days
50 degrees 10-14 days
60 degrees 7-10 days
70 degrees 3-7 days
80 degrees 1-2 days

1. Victims that have drowned in 30-40 degree water will not surface until
water warms.

2. Victims that are 100 feet or deeper may not surface at all due to the
combination of pressure and temperature.

VARIABLES THAT AFFECT FLOAT TIME

1. When and What food was last consumed (foods high in carbohydrates:
beer, soft drinks, hot dogs, potato chips) produce gases faster.

2. Medications, drugs, or alcohol.

3. Body composition &#8211; skinny, muscular, obese. (fat float quicker).

4. Age, weight, and height of victim.

5. Activity at the time of drowning (hunting, fishing, swimming, skiing).

6. Suicidal drowning &#8211; self weighting, stacked clothing.

7. Type and layers of clothing worn including footwear (heavier winter
clothing of hip boots).

8. Gases produced in the intestinal tract are: methane, hydrogen sulfide, and
carbon dioxide. These gases are soluble in water and compressible.

9. Any visible body wounds &#8211; previous or after drowning?

10. Type of water: River, Quarry, Lake, Pond, Freshwater, Saltwater?

11. Bottom temperature &#8211; currents, spring fed, stagnate, polluted water
presents different problems for determining bacteria in intestinal tract.

12. Pressure exerted holding victim down varies with depth of water.

13. Any debris &#8211; stumps, trees, fence, fishing line that could cause
entanglement. Water sheds and most State Parks are flooded farm land.

14. Adult men and women on the bottom weigh about 6-15 lbs. negative.
Children weigh less and may not sink unless intentionally weighted. Some
kids will float face up.

15. Victims who are dead before they enter the water will not sink and float.
We had a victim travel 175 miles in 3 days who was thrown in the river
from a motorcycle accident.

16. Most adult victims will float face down due to the weight of arms and legs. They float just like you recover a victim from the bottom face down.

http://www.twinquarries.com/nurri/index.htm

I'm finding current data showing water temps in the 40's, but having no luck locating temps from last month. I think it would be safe to say they were close to if not below 40. Given that, and what's listed above, I'd say a month or more.

-------------




Taking what we know (or suspect):

1. Victims that have drowned in 30-40 degree water will not surface until
water warms. I think it's likely the water temp was in this range at the time.

2. Victims that are 100 feet or deeper may not surface at all due to the
combination of pressure and temperature. This could be, depending on how far she was taken away from shore.

VARIABLES THAT AFFECT FLOAT TIME

1. When and What food was last consumed (foods high in carbohydrates:
beer, soft drinks, hot dogs, potato chips) produce gases faster. If she didn't have snacks along the way, her last meal would have been at least 6 hours before her earliest arrival at the beach.

2. Medications, drugs, or alcohol. I wish they'd have told us how these affect float times.

3. Body composition &#8211; skinny, muscular, obese. (fat float quicker). She seemed to be of average build.

4. Age, weight, and height of victim. Children surface quicker.

5. Activity at the time of drowning (hunting, fishing, swimming, skiing).

6. Suicidal drowning &#8211; self weighting, stacked clothing.Or someone intentionally weighting her down...

7. Type and layers of clothing worn including footwear (heavier winter
clothing of hip boots).It was cool and damp; she was wearing warmer clothing in the videos.

8. Gases produced in the intestinal tract are: methane, hydrogen sulfide, and
carbon dioxide. These gases are soluble in water and compressible.

9. Any visible body wounds &#8211; previous or after drowning?

10. Type of water: River, Quarry, Lake, Pond, Freshwater, Saltwater?How does saltwater affect float time?

11. Bottom temperature &#8211; currents, spring fed, stagnate, polluted water
presents different problems for determining bacteria in intestinal tract.

12. Pressure exerted holding victim down varies with depth of water.

13. Any debris &#8211; stumps, trees, fence, fishing line that could cause
entanglement. Water sheds and most State Parks are flooded farm land.

14. Adult men and women on the bottom weigh about 6-15 lbs. negative.
Children weigh less and may not sink unless intentionally weighted. Some
kids will float face up.

15. Victims who are dead before they enter the water will not sink and float.
We had a victim travel 175 miles in 3 days who was thrown in the river
from a motorcycle accident.

16. Most adult victims will float face down due to the weight of arms and legs. They float just like you recover a victim from the bottom face down.

http://www.twinquarries.com/nurri/index.htm

 

[SMK]

Here is some of what I was researching earlier, have to find the rest:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Drowning+investigations-a0143342211

The Body in Water

The human body weighs slightly more than fresh water. Consequently, when individuals become unconscious, they sink--regardless of fat level, which slightly increases buoyancy. Generally, a drowning victim will reach the bottom of a body of water in spite of the depth, unless it meets some obstruction on the way down. As the corpse descends further, the pressure of the water tends to compress gases in the abdominal wall and chest cavities. As a result, the body displaces less water as it sinks and, consequently, becomes less buoyant the further down it goes, until it reaches the bottom. (5)

If a corpse does not sink, investigators should suspect another cause of death, such as heart attack. Or, perhaps, a dry drowning has occurred; in those cases, because the lungs do not contain water, the body will not descend.

Almost without exception, a corpse lying on the bottom of a lake or river eventually will surface because of the gas formed in its tissues as a result of decay and the action of internal bacteria. This results in reduced specific gravity of the body so that it rises. Witnesses to this event have described corpses breaking the surface of the water with force, like the popping of a cork.

Factors that effect the length of time for a body to surface after drowning include fat content, consumption of beverages and food preceding death, water temperature at the bottom, and depth at the location. Recent meals high in carbohydrates (e.g., candy, beer, and potato chips) nourish certain bacteria that will encourage quick refloat




. (6) In warm and shallow water, the gases within the body form rapidly, resulting in a possible rise to the surface within a day or two. In deep and cold water, bacterial action takes place slowly, and the corpse may not appear for several weeks. (7) When the body becomes greatly distended with gas, the tendency to float increases. Many well-documented cases exist of homicide victims dumped into lakes and rivers and then later surfacing, even though perpetrators attached heavy weights to them.

In some cases, the body may remain immersed. Extremely deep, cold water conditions (e.g., natural glacier lakes, deep impoundments) may prevent a corpse from ever becoming buoyant enough to overcome the immense water pressure.

Rivers and the Effects of Currents

Rivers differ from other bodies of water in two ways--they are shallow and have currents. Depths of less than 10 feet do not have a high level of compression on the internal air spaces of drowning victims.

In extremely heavy currents, such as in flash-flood situations, the victim's body probably will roll on the bottom for a considerable distance--trees or other debris also may carry along the corpse. During normal conditions in most rivers, this is not the case, and investigators usually will find victims on the bottom relatively close to the drowning site. However, after the body floats to the surface, it may drift due to the current before washing ashore or coming to rest in a back eddy. (8)

Lakes and the Depth Factor

Victims who drown in lakes will sink to the bottom in the area below the point of submergence; authorities usually will locate the body within a radius equal to the depth of the water. However, witness error can come into play. Even when someone sees the incident, authorities may find establishing the site difficult or impossible if the victim drowned far from shore. Because of panic and anxiety, people usually do not think to mark the location where the individual went down or to note nearby landmarks, thereby eliminating triangulation


as an option. Investigators find it hard to locate drowned victims in lakes unless the incident occurred near the shoreline, from an anchored boat, or at a dock secured to the shore. This problem becomes further complicated in deep and dingy water, which may eliminate any possibility of recovery attempts by scuba divers. Often, waiting for the body to float to the surface becomes the only viable option.

[ILLUSTRATION OMITTED]

Lakes rarely have a current strong enough to affect a body sinking or surfacing. However, the victim likely will move after refloat, and wind can push corpses. In lakes, the effect of even slight wind movement easily can offset any current that might exist.

Often, especially in the summer months, lakes have definite thermoclines--two layers of water at different temperatures. While the surface can measure 75 to 90[degrees]F, the temperature can drop 20 to 30[degrees]F at a depth of 40 feet--this cold water will tend to *advertiser censored* the reflotation process. (9) A myth exists that a drowning victim can become suspended on a thermocline

because of the difference in water density between these two layers. However, no known case exists of this happening; in fact, internal air compression on descent and expansion on ascent make this virtually impossible. (10)

CONSIDERATIONS FOR INVESTIGATORS

Investigators can look for some distinctive signs to determine cases of drowning. Officers must recognize these indicators and then articulate them to the medical examiner. Presently, no known and proven pathological test exists to determine drowning as the cause of death, so, by itself, an autopsy usually proves insufficient. Authorities can make this diagnosis only with a knowledge of the circumstances and exclusion of other causes.

Investigators need to answer several questions in apparent drowning cases. For instance, did the person drown, or did perpetrators kill the individual and dispose of the corpse in the water? Was the victim conscious upon submersion? Could the person swim well? Did the victim consume any alcohol or drugs? What was the individual doing at the time? Did anyone witness the incident? If any injuries exist on the body, were they caused before death (antemortem








), at the same time (agonal



), or afterwards (postmortem






)? In the course of their investigation, authorities will find that a combination of external signs will provide valuable information. (11)

 

[SMK]

I found this part, from the same link, below, very interesting, and made me wonder about the determination of "accidental drowning" with Azriel:


CONSIDERATIONS FOR INVESTIGATORS

Investigators can look for some distinctive signs to determine cases of drowning. Officers must recognize these indicators and then articulate them to the medical examiner
. Presently, no known and proven pathological test exists to determine drowning as the cause of death, so, by itself, an autopsy usually proves insufficient. Authorities can make this diagnosis only with a knowledge of the circumstances and exclusion of other causes.

Investigators need to answer several questions in apparent drowning cases. For instance, did the person drown, or did perpetrators kill the individual and dispose of the corpse in the water? Was the victim conscious upon submersion? Could the person swim well? Did the victim consume any alcohol or drugs? What was the individual doing at the time? Did anyone witness the incident? If any injuries exist on the body, were they caused before death (antemortem), at the same time (agonal
In the course of their investigation, authorities will find that a combination of external signs will provide valuable information. (11)

Bodily Substances

Investigators should look carefully around the victim's head, face, and mouth for any signs of vomitus. They should make this observation first as this very transient evidence easily can wash away. Presence of vomit serves as a reliable indicator that the victim became submerged while alive.ttp://www.thefreelibrary.com/Drowning+investigations-a0143342211

 

[Chili Fries]

I posted a link to a site that has that info, dependent upon water temp and other variables. I'll see if I can find it again. But you also have to consider the tides, currents, and any debris below the surface that could have entangled her body. And also, if someone was involved in this, she could have been weighted down in some fashion.

We have had locals post that there are a lot of old fishing nets submerged in that area.

 

[Calliope]

I found this part, from the same link, below, very interesting, and made me wonder about the determination of "accidental drowning" with Azriel:


CONSIDERATIONS FOR INVESTIGATORS

Investigators can look for some distinctive signs to determine cases of drowning. Officers must recognize these indicators and then articulate them to the medical examiner
. Presently, no known and proven pathological test exists to determine drowning as the cause of death, so, by itself, an autopsy usually proves insufficient. Authorities can make this diagnosis only with a knowledge of the circumstances and exclusion of other causes.

Investigators need to answer several questions in apparent drowning cases. For instance, did the person drown, or did perpetrators kill the individual and dispose of the corpse in the water? Was the victim conscious upon submersion? Could the person swim well? Did the victim consume any alcohol or drugs? What was the individual doing at the time? Did anyone witness the incident? If any injuries exist on the body, were they caused before death (antemortem), at the same time (agonal
In the course of their investigation, authorities will find that a combination of external signs will provide valuable information. (11)

Bodily Substances

Investigators should look carefully around the victim's head, face, and mouth for any signs of vomitus. They should make this observation first as this very transient evidence easily can wash away. Presence of vomit serves as a reliable indicator that the victim became submerged while alive.ttp://www.thefreelibrary.com/Drowning+investigations-a0143342211

Excellent resource. Thanks!

Good point about Azriel's autopsy results. Also, at this point in time, one done on Shantina may not be conclusive at all.

 

[LCoastMom]

I don't think the front doors were open. I think the side sliding door and the back hatch were open. That makes me think they were opened when the tide was in - otherwise, why wouldn't the front driver's side door be open?

I originally thought the front doors were opened because of the call to LE, JP said the doors are opened or But the day I spent 8 hours going back all I found for sure was the back and side were opened.I need to take my puppy to the vet could someone check the 911 call please???

Jim Pribbenow found the vehicle on private beachfront property. He told The Olympian newspaper that the back hatch and side door were open, the front end was stuck in the mud and “you could see where the wheels had spun in trying to back out.”

Deputies have been searching for the missing pair ever since their minivan was found submerged in a small cove off Budd Inlet near North Olympia, with the doors open.

Jill Pribbenow, one of the neighbors who discovered the minivan, said Tuesday that the keys were on the dashboard.

http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/17/1174911/no-new-clues-in-missing-pair.html#links

On Sunday morning, a nearby resident found their minivan, doors open and keys on the dash, partially submerged and stuck in the mud near Dana Passage. At high tide, it appeared the water covered the van, Stines said.

But whatever evidence there is seems to be is circumstantial at this point. As far as what happened to Shantina Smiley, there are still only questions.

“We’ll probably have those for a while,” Stines said. “You may never know.”

 

[slowpoke]

I originally thought the front doors were opened because of the call to LE, JP said the doors are opened or But the day I spent 8 hours going back all I found for sure was the back and side were opened.I need to take my puppy to the vet could someone check the 911 call please???

Here's the link to the 911 call.

http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-031610-audio-search,0,2743159.mp3file

You're right, JP does say "the doors are all open". I hadn't listened to the call before--just read articles--and from those my recollection is that it was the side door (singular) and rear hatch that were open.

I may be wrong, but I somehow feel the news reports may be the more accurate report, as I'm inclined to think that when he made the call he may have been just speaking in a conversational manner, and not being real specific, perhaps?

 

[BeanE]

I just googled 'shantina smiley side door' because I remembered it as the side door and back hatch open. Several articles popped up w/side door and back hatch.

Here's one:

The next morning, Jim Pribbenow found the gold 2005 Dodge Caravan on private beachfront property around 10:30 a.m.

“The back hatch and the side door was open,” Pribbenow said.


Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/15/1172788/van-found-on-beach-but-mom-boy.html#ixzz0lmZQ7clu

 

[BeanE]

I still think it would be a good idea for the family to get some volunteers together and search that uninhabited island across the passage from where the van was abandoned. It's just slightly north of the beach, and Azriel's body traveled north. With the currents described as "turbulent" it's entirely possible she ended up there.

I think somebody mentioned TES earlier. I wonder if they could help. Their services are free. The family has to call and request them to come in.

 

[powayparent]

I should know better than to be specific without looking up the facts. Any door that opens outward or upward would be difficult/impossible to open with a significant amount of water pressure on the outside. I don't know what the effect would be on a sliding door but still believe the doors were opened well before the water got high enough to wash Azriel out of the vehicle.

 

[Jules71]

Jim Pribbenow found the vehicle on private beachfront property. He told The Olympian newspaper that the back hatch and side door were open, the front end was stuck in the mud and &#8220;you could see where the wheels had spun in trying to back out.&#8221;

I remember reading this at the time it came out. I thought it was so odd that everyone was talking about the van being backed toward the water - but then came the pictures showing it that way. The way Pribbenow states this, makes it sound like the van's front end was closest to the water, stuck in the mud, and the tires had spun trying to back out (away from the water). Could the pictures we saw of the van being backed toward the water have been from the tow truck turning it around to hook it on the truck properly. I am going to go look at that picture again - I could be way off.

 

[Jules71]

I remember reading this at the time it came out. I thought it was so odd that everyone was talking about the van being backed toward the water - but then came the pictures showing it that way. The way Pribbenow states this, makes it sound like the van's front end was closest to the water, stuck in the mud, and the tires had spun trying to back out (away from the water). Could the pictures we saw of the van being backed toward the water have been from the tow truck turning it around to hook it on the truck properly. I am going to go look at that picture again - I could be way off.

I believe the most noticeable tire tracks in this picture are from the tow truck:

 

[Jules71]

I remember reading or hearing Robb say the only damage to the van was a minor thing on the front bumper - this picture shows what he may have been referring to. Is it possible Shantina did drive facing forward toward the water and hit whatever that is in the first picture? Then they had to reverse the van and straighten out for the tow truck to hook it on (leaving the circular tire track pattern)?

 

[Jules71]

Anyone? :U There:

Gotta run - some more to ponder....

 

[SMK]

Anyone? :U There:

Gotta run - some more to ponder....

Hmmm, so we were not necessarily seeing the van as LE saw it, when they came upon it? They never did say which end was facing the water, but one assumed from the pictures, it was backed up to the water................:waitasec:

 

[SMK]

I believe the most noticeable tire tracks in this picture are from the tow truck:

Meant to put this remark with this above quote:


Hmmm, so we were not necessarily seeing the van as LE saw it, when they came upon it? They never did say which end was facing the water, but one assumed from the pictures, it was backed up to the water................:waitasec:

 

[slowpoke]

No, it does appear that that is how the van was found---with the back end in the water. At least, I think so! Isn't that what this would mean:
From the link--
"He said she might have backed into the water while turning around and got the van stuck, but he doesn't know why she'd drive off a paved road to the beach.

Simmons said it appeared the van was backed into the water."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011351454_missing16m.html

 

[houndstooth]

I remember reading or hearing Robb say the only damage to the van was a minor thing on the front bumper - this picture shows what he may have been referring to. Is it possible Shantina did drive facing forward toward the water and hit whatever that is in the first picture? Then they had to reverse the van and straighten out for the tow truck to hook it on (leaving the circular tire track pattern)?

Most vehicles can be towed by the front or rear because either end can be damaged in a collision. If they were able to move the car up and back to change direction and all that they could have just driven it out too!!

But I don't believe they would want anyone in the vehicle itself before forensic examination.

 

[houndstooth]

I suspect that the up and back tracks were made by SS. It appears there was a concerted effort to GET the vehicle stuck.

 

[Jules71]

No, it does appear that that is how the van was found---with the back end in the water. At least, I think so! Isn't that what this would mean:
From the link--
"He said she might have backed into the water while turning around and got the van stuck, but he doesn't know why she'd drive off a paved road to the beach.

Simmons said it appeared the van was backed into the water."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011351454_missing16m.html

Thanks for this! I don't remember if I saw it or not. So, I wonder what Pribbenow meant when “He told The Olympian newspaper that the back hatch and side door were open, the front end was stuck in the mud and “you could see where the wheels had spun in trying to back out.”

Does he mean back further out into the water? I wouldn't think so. Weird.

Maybe Shantina drove straight down that road, toward that heap of whatever it is in that picture, hit it, then put it in reverse (causing the circular pattern) and then got stuck trying to pull out forward. Hmmm Who knows! It could be the tow truck's tracks, it could be Shantina's, it could be someone else's. All I know is it is just BIZARRE!