WA WA - Sky Metalwala, 2, Bellevue, 6 Nov 2011 - # 6

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I suppose anything is possible. But it's strange, in so many of these cases where mom is the obvious suspect, I see a lot of people going straight to accidental drugging deaths or selling the child, hiding him or her, while I always go straight to physical abuse leading to death or intentional smothering, strangling, drowning, etc.

I really think most of the parents of these missing kids don't accidentally kill them. I think they either intentionally do so or it resulted from extreme physical abuse.

I read that we have about 2000 fatalities of children per year, due to abuse and neglect. More than one third of the deaths in 2009 were due to multiple forms of maltreatment, which I suppose would be abuse and neglect. A third or so were due to outright neglect and around 25% due to physical abuse alone: http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/fatality.cfm

But most of those cases are reported in some manner quickly to the authorities. These cases we are discussing are not reported. Why? I kind of feel like the reason is that in most of these cases, the children were murdered intentionally or died as a result of intensive physical abuse and the parents do not want to be charged with murder. So they hide the body, the evidence and refuse to talk.

Do you find the method of murder often depends on the gender of the parent?
I am thinking about how the method of suicide depends on the gender of the individual.
Mothers may use pills, poison, etc. Fathers may use methods requiring actions that are more physical; requiring more cnatact with the child's body.

Just wondering.

 

[gngr~snap]

Do you find the method of murder often depends on the gender of the parent?
I am thinking about how the method of suicide depends on the gender of the individual.
Mothers may use pills, poison, etc. Fathers may use methods requiring actions that are more physical; requiring more cnatact with the child's body.

Just wondering.

"When a young child is murdered, the most frequent perpetrator is a victim's parent or stepparent."

bad mama's?

"These rates of child murder are probably underestimates, due to inaccurate coroner rulings and some bodies never being discovered..."

guess we will never really know.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/

 

[InTheGarden]

From the reading i have done, I believe Sky was killed between 11/1 and 11/4. The mother was such a clean freak, would have killed him in the least messy way possible. She even told the father that she "dreamed" she had strangled him. I imagine Sky was wrapped and wound up in a dumpster before 11/6, the day of the alledged kidnapping. Horrible words to even write.

 

[Chris_Texas]

warning "rant here" I'm so sick of hearing about how reckless mothers are actually taking the fall for their other kids that killed the baby. I mean I've thought it too at times and it just goes to show how ridiculous we've gotten in this country. That we actually need to come up with other excuses no matter how much we see moms who "wanna party and don't stop even when their baby is dead" "get drunk and pass out while watching THREE small children including a SICK 10 month old" and "leave their 4YEAR OLD and 2! 2! TWO year old home alone or in the car for hours"

These are just the things these women have gotten CAUGHT doing. Those of us who are mothers know damn well how close many of us have come to hurting our kids with just an accidental oversight even as the most devoted moms. Maybe outwardly we presented well but at home I'm sure I'm not the only one who had a few heart stopping moments.

If this is the kind of thing these women did PUBLICLY with their children, then god knows what they did at home when no one was around.

This woman is responsible for her child being gone. Just like the McCaans are. I'm sick and tired of hearing about missing children and parents feeling persecuted for not keeping an eye on them.


Grrrr

To think we'd rather accuse a child of manslaughter than recognize what is staring us right in the face is pretty telling.

I am tired of the excuses as well, and equally tired of the double standard. Mom can leave the kids alone for 11 hours, she can walk off and leave them in the car, she can refuse to answer questions of take a poly, she can lie about the car dying, she can say and do anything she likes and some will dredge the depths of conspiracy lake to come up with some reason to excuse her or blame someone else -- usually dad.

If there was a video showing a gibbering mom chasing her shreiking kids around while waving a chainsaw, they would blame dad for buying the chainsaw in the first place.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I couldn't agree more and wanted to thank you for your post. Unfortunately until societies hold mothers as accountable for killing their children as fathers I think maternal filicides are likely to continue rising. For every Casey Anthony that makes prime time news are also the Ka Young, Stacy Barker, China Arnold, Shakara Dickens and many, many others who do not become household names.

Motherhood is sacred. A mother purposely killing her child is against our laws of nature but it happens more often than statistics can even determine. Nearly every filicide case I have followed people are desperate to explain how a mother could violate a bond so precious. A mother must be crazy, have been beaten, been sexually violated, suffering from PPD or must be covering a murder for someone else.

Substance abuse, sexual abuse, domestic violence, prior contact with CPS, known abuse of the victim, mental illness or a criminal record are only prevalent in about half of one study of maternal filicides though (many differences occur between psychotic and non-psychotic).

The same paper also breaks down means of filicide. Beating, neglect and smothering top the list for non-psychotic filicides with no reported cases of overdose. (Based on competency evaluations conducted of 55 filicidal mothers from 1974-1996 by the Michigan's Center for Forensic Psychiatry.)

JMHO

I have a feeling it has always been a whole lot more common then people assume. I suspect that a whole lot of murdered kids have been written off over the years as crib death, accidents, and what not.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

"When a young child is murdered, the most frequent perpetrator is a victim's parent or stepparent."

bad mama's?

"These rates of child murder are probably underestimates, due to inaccurate coroner rulings and some bodies never being discovered..."

guess we will never really know.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/

Thank you for your response and for this information.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

"When a young child is murdered, the most frequent perpetrator is a victim's parent or stepparent."

bad mama's?

"These rates of child murder are probably underestimates, due to inaccurate coroner rulings and some bodies never being discovered..."

guess we will never really know.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/

Thank you for your response, and thank you for this information.:seeya:

 

[gngr~snap]

OK! Am I being paranoid or does Sky look "blue" in this photo?

Even around his mouth? Was he a HEALTHY toddler???
Do we know? Have we heard?sky, family christmas pix 048 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

click on the "pic" that isn't there and then you can see it I dunno what happened

 

[ClassyT]

OK! Am I being paranoid or does Sky look "blue" in this photo?

Even around his mouth? Was he a HEALTHY toddler???
Do we know? Have we heard?sky, family christmas pix 048 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Hes definitely cold or something. Hes also flipping his mother the bird. Good call!

 

[gngr~snap]

Hes definitely cold or something. Hes also flipping his mother the bird. Good call!

I see some nostril "flaring" too... like it's hard for him to get air...peds nurse here... I'm jaded :seeya:

 

[BritsKate]

Do you find the method of murder often depends on the gender of the parent?
I am thinking about how the method of suicide depends on the gender of the individual.
Mothers may use pills, poison, etc. Fathers may use methods requiring actions that are more physical; requiring more cnatact with the child's body.

Just wondering.

My opinion is that less/more physical only applies in adult to adult homicide. When a victim is smaller than the perpetrator it is easier to use physical violence. Adult to adult homicide generally dictates that men are more 'hands on' than women while females typically attempt to distance themselves from their victim.

In cases of filicide that generality is thrown out the window. Few studies have been conducted that focus on paternal filicide but in cases of maternal filicide pills and poison are rarely used in comparison to other means of murder. In cases of psychotic maternal filicides reported means of homicide were most often due to gunshot/knife wounds; drowning and strangling. For non-psychotic mothers it was most often neglect; battery or smothering. Of 55 studied filicides only 3 included an intentional overdose.

This is of course a generality. Diane Downs shot her children and Darlie Routier used a knife but neither are considered psychotic filicides in my opinion. Some classic psychotic filicides are: Dena Schlosser (she cut her baby's arms off); Andrea Yates (drowned all 5 children); and Sun Cha Warhola (strangled her two children). Other classic non-psychotic filicides include: Casey Anthony (potential smothering); Stacy Barker (smothering); China Arnold (burns due to microwave) - she is also an example of the rare revenge filicide; Ka Young (burns due to microwave); Susan Smith (drowning); Colette Harris (caused over 80 injuries to her 2 year old son); Ana Maria Cardona (on death row in Florida - starvation, neglect, and severe torture to her 3 year old); Kim Crawford (son died of internal injuries due to her beating him); Tasha Parsons (beat son to death with aid of boyfriend).

JMO

 

[Bearcat109]

I think I am finally caught up on reading all of the threads relating to Sky. I am new here and want to let everyone know how thankful I for all the information here. My heart just breaks for Sky! He is so adorable. I just can't understand any of this.

 

[gngr~snap]

My opinion is that less/more physical only applies in adult to adult homicide. When a victim is smaller than the perpetrator it is easier to use physical violence. Adult to adult homicide generally dictates that men are more 'hands on' than women while females typically attempt to distance themselves from their victim.

In cases of filicide that generality is thrown out the window. Few studies have been conducted that focus on paternal filicide but in cases of maternal filicide pills and poison are rarely used in comparison to other means of murder. In cases of psychotic maternal filicides reported means of homicide were most often due to gunshot/knife wounds; drowning and strangling. For non-psychotic mothers it was most often neglect; battery or smothering. Of 55 studied filicides only 3 included an intentional overdose.

This is of course a generality. Diane Downs shot her children and Darlie Routier used a knife but neither are considered psychotic filicides in my opinion. Some classic psychotic filicides are: Dena Schlosser (she cut her baby's arms off); Andrea Yates (drowned all 5 children); and Sun Cha Warhola (strangled her two children). Other classic non-psychotic filicides include: Casey Anthony (potential smothering); Stacy Barker (smothering); China Arnold (burns due to microwave) -

she is also an example of the rare revenge filicide

; Ka Young (burns due to microwave); Susan Smith (drowning); Colette Harris (caused over 80 injuries to her 2 year old son); Ana Maria Cardona (on death row in Florida - starvation, neglect, and severe torture to her 3 year old); Kim Crawford (son died of internal injuries due to her beating him); Tasha Parsons (beat son to death with aid of boyfriend).

JMO

imo this could be the case...
kill the male child save the female?
he can still have another male child in the future though :waitasec: who knows!

revenge is what my gut is sayin...

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

I think I am finally caught up on reading all of the threads relating to Sky. I am new here and want to let everyone know how thankful I for all the information here. My heart just breaks for Sky! He is so adorable. I just can't understand any of this.

:wagon:

 

[Bearcat109]

Thank you! I have a lot to learn.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I did a decent amount of research on filicide during Caylee's case. I don't relish the thought of going back through those threads...(insert several expletives and the word "Pinellas" here)...but I will try and see what I can dig up.

IIRC, my research was very similar to what BritsKate said. Mothers were more likely to kill children under five, while fathers were more likely to kill older/teenage children. Fathers were more likely than mothers to use weapons. Mothers were more likely to drown, strangle, or smother their children.

Mothers were more likely to dispose of their children in a place close to home (I think this is part of the logic behind the 1 mile radius search for Sky.) Fathers are more likely to dispose of children further away - even an hour or more away. Mothers are more likely to place their child in a "womb" like environment (enclosed or wrapped in some way.)

 

[ClassyT]

I see some nostril "flaring" too... like it's hard for him to get air...peds nurse here... I'm jaded :seeya:

If that photo was Christmas of 2009, he was only 3 months old and their circulation sucks at that age. And its probably cold on the floor. Also his sister is grabbing him or the flash startled him. He needs some properly clothes. Brrr

 

[Melanie]

Hes definitely cold or something. Hes also flipping his mother the bird. Good call!

And did ya notice the vacuum track marks in the carpet? Like she just vacuumed before putting them down for the pictures.

MOO

Mel

 

[ClassyT]

And did ya notice the vacuum track marks in the carpet? Like she just vacuumed before putting them down for the pictures.

MOO

Mel

Every one of her photos seem very controlled, very staged and generally creep me out...I will be honest. The one from Christmas where she is randomly poking ornaments on the Christmas tree made me snicker a bit. And then she set it up so her daughter was doing the same thing. It was weird. Just odd. She wasnt OCD shes a control freak.

 

[ClassyT]

Where is Estgate Park and what is that building behind them? IMG_0767 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!