WA WA - Sky Metalwala, 2, Bellevue, 6 Nov 2011 - # 8

[Camille]

I'm not sure I want to know. I have nothing but sympathy for what he went through - it's outrageous.

Let's think outside the box for a minute ~ can you imagine what people would be saying if a father made his kids or wife go outside instead of using the bathroom, even in winter? We'd be screaming "abuse" to the heavens. :twocents:

Women can be abusive too. JMOO

Yes they can and no I don't really want to know what he did or where he went other than to know how this was even physically possible. Why are people just taking everything that this man says as truth?

 

[laniefi]

Is it a possibility she could be housed at the Russian Embassy?

Do police know where Julia Biryukova is?

Hmmm...not sure if she would have dual citizensip. Does anyone know?

 

[laniefi]

wonderful post, great post, I agree 1 million percent, yes that is 100% many times over. if I could ever find the happy clappy smilie you're have a round of applause.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Camille]

Her upbringing could give some hints to whatever "supposedly" triggered any mental issues, perhaps her family was abusive. The trigger was during the marriage, so that is the most important place to look. I get the feeling that that marriage was not a kind and loving one. Let's not forget we have only heard 1 strange side of the story, that I know of, and not much from the other side. Having been in an incredibly abusive relationship when I was younger, I know how charming and how rapidly someone can tell the world lies, and everyone believes it. You can't say anything b/c you have been threatened never to say anything or further punishment (possibly worse) will be next. Finally, after 23 years, at my daughter's wedding, that abusive ex's parents pulled me aside (yes he was there as he is the father of DD) and apologized for not seeing and not helping. I did not need the apology, but they did not see until he did it again with someone else, once we divorced. He was very charming, and all the bruises were my fault, I fell or was just clumsy. All the abuse was making me crazy. I was not allowed to eat, not allowed to go anywhere, not allowed to have friends, forced to do many things. So, just saying, the marriage is where he says she snapped, there was a trigger there. Just another angle to view.

Thank you! As I just expressed I don't know what everyone is just taking it for granted that Solomon telling the truth here. Just because his attorney filed that document doesn't mean it's the truth. People lie on the stand under oath and in legal documents all the time and yet even when perjury is proven it's rarely ever prosecuted.

 

[laniefi]

Yes they can and no I don't really want to know what he did or where he went other than to know how this was even physically possible. Why are people just taking everything that this man says as truth?

I am ALWAYS skeptical. I don't take what anyone says as gospel unless I saw it with my own eyes!

 

[laniefi]

thank you! As i just expressed i don't know what everyone is just taking it for granted that solomon telling the truth here. Just because his attorney filed that document doesn't mean it's the truth. people lie on the stand under oath and in legal documents all the time and yet even when perjury is proven it's rarely ever prosecuted.

***cough***cindyanthony

 

[Snowball58]

Interesting link. I have to believe that LE knows exactly where she is. They could not possibly be so incompetent that they lost her.

Still catching up, but I think that LE is being cagey on the questions about JB's location because perhaps she's been hospitalized...

 

[21merc7]

Thank you! As I just expressed I don't know what everyone is just taking it for granted that Solomon telling the truth here. Just because his attorney filed that document doesn't mean it's the truth. People lie on the stand under oath and in legal documents all the time and yet even when perjury is proven it's rarely ever prosecuted.

I agree Camille. I certainly have no idea what happened, but I have been through bitter divorce and custody and am well aware of the lying that goes on, the taping, the filming. Most importantly, stalking. Keeping tabs on your every move. While not mentioned yet in this case that I know of, it happens almost every time. It is horrible for everyone, but mostly the children. To use the "she is insane and was once diagnosed" issue conjures the Victorian Era in my mind, and yet is it used at least a million times per day in Courts across the Country even today. Who is to say he is not the one driving her insane?

I cannot help but wonder if the child is with his family, not just the idea of hers. So, I am sitting on the fence, looking at both sides in the sordid mess, and hoping that Sky is alive and well somewhere.

 

[JeannaT]

Several of us have expressed the opinion (assuming what we have heard about her mental issues is true) that while Julia might be guilty of harming her child, that she is also a victim of her illness and a system that failed to help her or her family.

This is not a pardon, nor does it excuse what she did (assuming she did anything), but a statement of reality. I would say that Julia slipped through the cracks in our mental healthcare system, but we are not talking about a system with a few cracks. We have chasms.

We could fill those chasms, but that costs money, and as a society we have other priorities. We care about American Idol, we care about blowing **** up on the other side of the world, we care about football and granite countertops and whether or not someone is gay. We care more about saving the endangered Snaperdoodle than whether every child has enough to eat.

We don't care about someone losing their home to foreclosure, or someone who's career just got exported to China. We don't care that there are millions of people in this country who's only form of healthcare is prayer. We don't care that there are a million American kids who went to bed tonight hungry, and who will get dropped off at school tomorrow after sleeping in their car. And if it's "only" a mental health issue? Well we damn sure don't care about that.

Our solution to mental health for most is prayer and prison.

And I think we can do better.

Great post.

And I am really surprised, reading that she did have psychiatric help, that they didn't point her husband in the way to "help". Families of people with OCD often think it "helps" to participate in bizarre rituals, but in fact, it's the exact opposite. The ONLY way to help someone with OCD is to not participate.

OCD is like an army with infinite soldiers in your brain. Once they conquer a territory in your behaviors, it's on to the next. They don't stop at the bizarre rituals they've created, this army is on the move to create more limitations once a certain bizarre ritual is firmly established.

The ONLY way for family members to help is to say no, we're not doing that. No, we're not eating out every day. No, we're not sleeping on top of the beds. No, we're all going to use the restroom whenever we want. No, we're not wearing the same clothes every day.

As painful as it LOOKS for the person with OCD- to force them not to obey their compulsions - it's much less painful in the long run than giving in.

And it seems so sad to me, that the doctors she had didn't point that out to Solomon. It's pretty standard care for patients with severe OCD.

 

[not_my_kids]

Still catching up, but I think that LE is being cagey on the questions about JB's location because perhaps she's been hospitalized...

And if she has been, there is a good chance that they can't even say that, because HIPPA laws are so strict. Not that that's a bad thing, but it can be annoying for us nosy sleuthers.

 

[jjenny]

Question please: How old was she when she immigrated from Russia if anyone knows?

It was reported she was 12.

 

[nursebeeme]

not sure if everyone saw this from yesterday: http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/solomon-metalwala-visits-4-year-old-daughter/nFd9x/

SM got to visit with M*** yesterday

 

[wenwe4]

I am still really confused about what role CPS played in this family. . . . clearly they were involved when Sky was 3 months old. The parents were required to attend parenting classes and serve one year probation for their criminal charges. We don't know if CPS also required further services to ensure the children's welfare but at the time CPS became involved the parents were still a couple. I am wondering if CPS closed their case with the parents and the parenting plan/declaration/allegations issues were only brought in front of Superior court. Superior court is a separate court action than juvenile or family court, and does not usually deal with CPS cases.

If the allegations were made to CPS, then CPS has a duty to follow up and investigate whether there was food in the home, whether people were allowed to use the toilet, whether the family members were not allowed to sleep in their beds or utilize clothing from their closets . . . etc.

 

[Abby Normal]

I'm here and been here from the start. :seeya:

Speculation on your part. Some are suggesting the photos were staged. There is no evidence that they were. None.

He obviously didn't get his daughter now either. He got supervised visits. There is obviously something wrong with him not getting full unsupervised custody.

I can only speak to the "now" after the child has been removed, and not to what their visitation was before the child was removed.

Personally, I've only had ONE child who went to a birth relative (distant or immediate) who got to go to straight unsupervised visits. And actually that one child just got to go straight to living with this other relative. Wealth, proving herself quickly, and good attorney involved in that case. Unsupervised visits are normal with people never shown to have harmed the children. Without allegations against him, it would likely have started with supervised visits if he was the non-custodial parent. With the allegations, it will be longer of that and more hoops to jump through. They will also need to give M time to become comfortable with a therapist to get a better picture of how she interprets everything.

The reason is that there is a liability for the state if they remove a child and place them somewhere that they then get hurt. HUGE liability. This process, along with making them jump through hoops to prove themselves, show that the state did everything within their power and makes them less liable (legally) if the child does come to harm after placement.

IOW- if the mom made allegations and then the child came into foster care (not uncommon at all) supervised visits would be the standard and not indicative of judgment agains the other parent.

I had one boy who came into my care, his parents never lived together but dad was on the BC and had visitation. The mom was found to be abusive. The Dad decided he wanted to take the boy in, rather than have him in foster care. By this time he had a wife and 2 small kids. A stable home, a decent job, and his wife put her boys into a shared room to give him his own room, stating that it was only right that their oldest son have his own room. She was a lovely woman, who obviously had decided to take this boy in as her own. There were no indications of ANY problems with this home. And the couple still had to go through the process. Supervised visits for 3 months, unsupervised for 3, with time spent at Dad's increasing during the unsupervised visits.

IOW- unless the two parents were living together, or he had equal custody, it would be normal for him not to get custody straight away.

Just my experience, and to qualify it, I have ZERO experience in the state in question.

 

[rosemary]

my snip

the thing is, perhaps she had no control over that either....at least she wouldnt have had the control a mentally healthy person would have. she may have gotten the idea that the pills were contaminated or suchlike.

a child will refuse medicine if it tastes badly, an adult taking nyquil knows it tastes horrendous but will take it because the mentally healthy adult KNOWS that it's only nasty for a minute and the good will soon outweigh the bad.

JB may not have gotten to where she could know the good would outweigh the bad.

mind you, as I posted before meds are not very helpful in OCD and I cant speak for why she didnt go to therapy...this disease is brutal and wants nothing more than to protect itself like any other parasite. and it IS PARASITICAL. this is impossible maybe to explain to someone without it, that JB would not be in control of herself like you might think she was.

disclaimer: I'm not all caught up yet, I dont have many opinions yet, but I did want to point out that someone with as much issues as JB probably did not WANT to be that way.


eta: I just read your above post and see that I am preaching to the choir :hug:

but julia was sane enough to convince professionals that she was mentally capable to look after her kids. she was sane enough to get a criminal defense lawyer and was able to avoid talking to the police at all about sky's whereabouts. plus, add in the fact that she apparently took drugs prior to getting pregnant and was convinced that drugs and not behavioural therapy was the help that she needed, i seriously doubt julia had an aversion or fear of drugs. though i may sympathize with her because she clearly suffers from a mental illness, in the end she was the one who was responsible for her own actions. if she truly felt terrible about what her family was going through, she would have done the effort, the hard work to get the help she needed. she turned away from the only person who cared enough to get her help, and instead demonized him so that the children would be scared of him. julia was not mentally ill enough that she didn't know right from wrong. if she was completely out of it, she'd have confessed to the police where sky is rather than try to hide from them.

 

[jjenny]

And if she has been, there is a good chance that they can't even say that, because HIPPA laws are so strict. Not that that's a bad thing, but it can be annoying for us nosy sleuthers.

HIPPA laws would only apply to medical professionals, not police.

 

[laniefi]

not sure if everyone saw this from yesterday: http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/solomon-metalwala-visits-4-year-old-daughter/nFd9x/

SM got to visit with M*** yesterday

Interesting! Think LE made this possible?

 

[not_my_kids]

I am still really confused about what role CPS played in this family. . . . clearly they were involved when Sky was 3 months old. The parents were required to attend parenting classes and serve one year probation for their criminal charges. We don't know if CPS also required further services to ensure the children's welfare but at the time CPS became involved the parents were still a couple. I am wondering if CPS closed their case with the parents and the parenting plan/declaration/allegations issues were only brought in front of Superior court. Superior court is a separate court action than juvenile or family court, and does not usually deal with CPS cases.

If the allegations were made to CPS, then CPS has a duty to follow up and investigate whether there was food in the home, whether people were allowed to use the toilet, whether the family members were not allowed to sleep in their beds or utilize clothing from their closets . . . etc.

Respectfully BBM. They used to. Now they triage out cases before sending a worker out, not after the worker has viewed the home. If the worker that takes the call doesn't believe that an allegation is believeable, they don't have to assign a worker to follow up. It's been happening nationwide, and there are articles on it happening in FL, MI, CA and other places with high child abuse stats. Too many calls, not enough workers, money or hours in the day to follow up on all of them.

 

[JeannaT]

I am still really confused about what role CPS played in this family. . . . clearly they were involved when Sky was 3 months old. The parents were required to attend parenting classes and serve one year probation for their criminal charges. We don't know if CPS also required further services to ensure the children's welfare but at the time CPS became involved the parents were still a couple. I am wondering if CPS closed their case with the parents and the parenting plan/declaration/allegations issues were only brought in front of Superior court. Superior court is a separate court action than juvenile or family court, and does not usually deal with CPS cases.

If the allegations were made to CPS, then CPS has a duty to follow up and investigate whether there was food in the home, whether people were allowed to use the toilet, whether the family members were not allowed to sleep in their beds or utilize clothing from their closets . . . etc.

Mm hm. Profound case of "slipping through the cracks". What was going on in that family was gross neglect of the physical and emotional needs of everyone except Julia, and Solomon's solicitous attitude toward his wife enabled that. He so carefully covered for her illness, and catered to it, that it was allowed to continue without the death of the children. Until a little later.

Although, I must say, once he made that long and painful declaration in court, it appears no one from the court or CPS even bothered to check out his story.

 

[not_my_kids]

HIPPA laws would only apply to medical professionals, not police.

Yes, the police would know, but they would not be able to tell the general public at a presser. I never said that LE wouldn't know.