WA WA - Sky Metalwala, 2, Bellevue, 6 Nov 2011 - # 8

[21merc7]

Also, I don't think every OCD sufferer suffers OCD as a result of childhood or adult physical and or sexual abuse, but perhaps we should get feedback on that from some of the professionals and folks on WS who cope with OCD.

respectfully snipped

I know nothing about OCD. I do not think it is related to sexual abuse. I do have a friend diagnosed with OCD and several other issues, 15 different meds a day (that is a different topic), she was never abused. In fact, she had what most would consider a picture perfect childhood. Just the way her wires are composed. Her first realization of it was 1st year college, obsessed to the point of distraction about the color nail polish she was wearing and not able to concentrate on anything else. I thought it was interesting.

 

[rosemary]

Actually, IIRC, he said the front half of their marriage was good. It sounded to me like the 'trigger' coincided with couple of major stressors: Financial loss and the birth of the first child. Having the chronic added stressors of infants/toddlers in the house served to exacerbate her symptoms.

While I do realize many women silently suffer abuse at the hands of charming, deceptive and manipulative men, I don't think that's the case here. IIRC, abuse allegations never came up until custody wasn't going her way, and IIRC, she had offered to drop the abuse charges at one point as a bargaining chip--if she could take the children out of state? Also, last week, it was indicated she'd rather have the daughter go to Solomon than foster parents. So she wants the daughter to go with the man whom she alleged physically and sexually abused that same child?

To me, JB sounds more to be a liar and master manipulator than an abuse victim.

Also, I don't think every OCD sufferer suffers OCD as a result of childhood or adult physical and or sexual abuse, but perhaps we should get feedback on that from some of the professionals and folks on WS who cope with OCD.

i also have a hard time believing that solomon was the abuser that julia portrayed him to be. in the tapes, she sounded more like the dominant one than he did. he hardly said anything to her, and she seemed intent to badmouth him in front of her daughter. i also found it telling when in one portion of the tape, he said that he didn't want his mother to pick up his daughter because julia might make up stories about her as well:

Solomon: “My mom is not going to go by Julia’s doorway so Julia can make another story. That’s why we can just call the Issaquah Police.”

Continue reading on Examiner.com ‘Exchange from hell’: Window into dysfunction of Sky Metalwala’s family - National missing persons | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...ction-of-sky-metalwala-s-family#ixzz1dsdOh1az

i just want to add in that i have experienced growing up in a family where my mother was the dominant controlling and abusive one in the relationship. like solomon, my dad rarely spoke up whenever my mother heaped insult at him, she called him names in front of us, and listening to the tapes brought back memories of my parents arguing. even her ad about wanting to find a real man also reminded me of my mom, because she used to say that to my dad as a way of hurting him. she also used to tell us and tell everyone else how terrible he was to her, how he hit her etc. she completely badmouthed him to everyone who would listen whenever she was angry with him. i can completely believe that julia lied about the abuse she supposedly suffered from solomon based on my mother's own lies about my dad.

 

[laniefi]

You know I do feel badly for JB on the level that she is mentally ill. Just as you would not BLAME someone with Cancer, she can not help her brain chemistry. She did however have a support system (at least it seems with her husband trying to seek help for her and a caustic yet reliable relationship with her mother) that AT LEAST got her initial treatment and a diagnosis.

Where the sympathy ends for me personally is where JB stops taking her medication and seeking ongoing therapy. NOW, I am not sure what meds she was on, but when she became pregnant for Sky her husband said she just decided to stop taking her meds. I do not know what class of drug she was taking but it may have been wiser to stop taking them during pregnancy due to the risks to the unborn child (Sky).

We should ALSO not forget the LOVED ONES of people afflicted with mental illness - her husband and two children. From what he has said, he did try to get his wife the help she so desperately needed.

Anyone who has lived with someone with mental illness knows your reality is shaped each day you live with the person. You truly don't realize how bad it may have gotten until you get an event that serves as your wake up call. You live it every day. Each new day gets worse and worse but over the course of years you find yourself in H3LL. It is absolutely exhausting to deal with this type of home life. SO this man, husband and father is trying to save a declining business, has lost his home, seeminly has to ensure his children are FED and probably cared for in other ways all the while his wife is unraveling slowly.

I feel a great sense of empathy for those who suffer from mental illness AND who have lived with someone with mental illness....

 

[jash]

IIRC Julia's parents names have not been released by MSM.

I'm not sure what MSM stands for, but JB's mother's name (and her brother's) can be found in the linked article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2011/11/07/sky-metalwala-missing-was_n_1080847.html

 

[BritsKate]

It would not be hard to take the baby to Hawaii and then get him overseas from there (i.e. Russia).

Had the family ever been to Hawaii? Interesting name for a hotel there...

http://www.hotels.com/ho121596/mail...ited-states/?gclid=CKrertywu6wCFYHe4Aod_loQow

BBM
A visa would still be required for entry to Russia on a US passport. In order to obtain an entry visa an application would have to be made to the Russian embassy/consulate in the United States. Both a valid passport for the child and custodial order granting permission to remove the child from the United States would be required documentation in order to obtain a visa. The embassy/consulate do confirm the validity of the custodial order.

As far as we know SM's attorney has stated that JB was prohibited from removing the children which, imo, makes overseas travel almost impossibly unlikely. Some countries entertain the Visa Waiver Program which would make it more likely to secret a child through because no visa is required for a length of time (like Zahra's case) but Russia isn't one of them.

 

[jjenny]

I think it was a web crawler type mistake. There is an entirely different person with the same name as our JB with her first name spelled with a Y. YB is not the JB in this case.

Since she immigrated from Russia Julia is not her "original" name. Russian equivalent of Julia is in fact Yulia. So it's possible to spell it both ways, it just depends which way she prefers to spell it.

 

[Cubby]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around JB's decision that her 2 and 4 yr olds did not require adult supervision. I'm trying to understand how someone compulsive regarding cleanliness would have no worries about such things as an apartment fire, a gas leak in the building, a child climbing up on something pulling it down causing a fatal accident. I can go on and on about what kind of accidents can happen with a 2 and 4 yr old being left to care for themselves.

Anyone have thoughts on her having a compulsion to 'win' and 'prove' she didn't need anyone else's help with raising her children and her need to 'win' overrode her concern for her childrens safety?

I'm completely lost on how it was not impressed upon Julia that children need supervision. From the photo's we saw I see this being all about her and nothing about her children. Parenting requires self sacrifice and LOTS of it. I see JB unwilling to make a single sacrifice in order to properly care for her children. IMO every single thing she did was to make an impression about herself on others and nothing to do with caring for her children.

At least with Casey Anthony, she dumped that responsibility onto another adult when she didn't feel like parenting( when she was able). Julia appears to have dumped the responsibility of parenting on HER CHILDREN.

JMO

 

[laniefi]

Actually, IIRC, he said the front half of their marriage was good. It sounded to me like the 'trigger' coincided with couple of major stressors: Financial loss and the birth of the first child. Having the chronic added stressors of infants/toddlers in the house served to exacerbate her symptoms.

While I do realize many women silently suffer abuse at the hands of charming, deceptive and manipulative men, I don't think that's the case here. IIRC, abuse allegations never came up until custody wasn't going her way, and IIRC, she had offered to drop the abuse charges at one point as a bargaining chip--if she could take the children out of state? Also, last week, it was indicated she'd rather have the daughter go to Solomon than foster parents. So she wants the daughter to go with the man whom she alleged physically and sexually abused that same child?

To me, JB sounds more to be a liar and master manipulator than an abuse victim.

Also, I don't think every OCD sufferer suffers OCD as a result of childhood or adult physical and or sexual abuse, but perhaps we should get feedback on that from some of the professionals and folks on WS who cope with OCD.

I can only speak for myself but I was abused by my grandfather at age 4. Through therapy I realize that the CONTROL I lost while being abused what what drove my need to control aspects of my life that I could - washing my hands, sucking my thumb, repeating phrases, rituals, etc.

I do also have depression and fibromyagia which are treated with anti-depressants.

Again that is only me

 

[2goldfish]

Where the sympathy ends for me personally is where JB stops taking her medication and seeking ongoing therapy.

my snip

the thing is, perhaps she had no control over that either....at least she wouldnt have had the control a mentally healthy person would have. she may have gotten the idea that the pills were contaminated or suchlike.

a child will refuse medicine if it tastes badly, an adult taking nyquil knows it tastes horrendous but will take it because the mentally healthy adult KNOWS that it's only nasty for a minute and the good will soon outweigh the bad.

JB may not have gotten to where she could know the good would outweigh the bad.

mind you, as I posted before meds are not very helpful in OCD and I cant speak for why she didnt go to therapy...this disease is brutal and wants nothing more than to protect itself like any other parasite. and it IS PARASITICAL. this is impossible maybe to explain to someone without it, that JB would not be in control of herself like you might think she was.

disclaimer: I'm not all caught up yet, I dont have many opinions yet, but I did want to point out that someone with as much issues as JB probably did not WANT to be that way.


eta: I just read your above post and see that I am preaching to the choir :hug:

 

[Cubby]

i also have a hard time believing that solomon was the abuser that julia portrayed him to be. in the tapes, she sounded more like the dominant one than he did. he hardly said anything to her, and she seemed intent to badmouth him in front of her daughter. i also found it telling when in one portion of the tape, he said that he didn't want his mother to pick up his daughter because julia might make up stories about her as well:

Solomon: “My mom is not going to go by Julia’s doorway so Julia can make another story. That’s why we can just call the Issaquah Police.”

Continue reading on Examiner.com ‘Exchange from hell’: Window into dysfunction of Sky Metalwala’s family - National missing persons | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...ction-of-sky-metalwala-s-family#ixzz1dsdOh1az

Everytime I read this, I find myself wondering why SM's attorney did not make the suggestion or push for these two to use an exchange center. An exchange center would have offered the opportunity for an exchange with zero interaction between the parents.

Of course I do not know for certain this option was not offered and am assuming it was not because we see no evidence of such in the documents which have been made public. :sigh:

 

[laniefi]

BBM
A visa would still be required for entry to Russia on a US passport. In order to obtain an entry visa an application would have to be made to the Russian embassy/consulate in the United States. Both a valid passport for the child and custodial order granting permission to remove the child from the United States would be required documentation in order to obtain a visa. The embassy/consulate do confirm the validity of the custodial order.

As far as we know SM's attorney has stated that JB was prohibited from removing the children which, imo, makes overseas travel almost impossibly unlikely. Some countries entertain the Visa Waiver Program which would make it more likely to secret a child through because no visa is required for a length of time (like Zahra's case) but Russia isn't one of them.

Oh sorry I meant get into Russia illegally - without documentation. My ancestry is Russian so I do know a bit about the culture and like any other money can sometimes buy you things - like false documents (Visa's, etc.).

 

[laniefi]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around JB's decision that her 2 and 4 yr olds did not require adult supervision. I'm trying to understand how someone compulsive regarding cleanliness would have no worries about such things as an apartment fire, a gas leak in the building, a child climbing up on something pulling it down causing a fatal accident. I can go on and on about what kind of accidents can happen with a 2 and 4 yr old being left to care for themselves.

Anyone have thoughts on her having a compulsion to 'win' and 'prove' she didn't need anyone else's help with raising her children and her need to 'win' overrode her concern for her childrens safety?

I'm completely lost on how it was not impressed upon Julia that children need supervision. From the photo's we saw I see this being all about her and nothing about her children. Parenting requires self sacrifice and LOTS of it. I see JB unwilling to make a single sacrifice in order to properly care for her children. IMO every single thing she did was to make an impression about herself on others and nothing to do with caring for her children.

At least with Casey Anthony, she dumped that responsibility onto another adult when she didn't feel like parenting( when she was able). Julia appears to have dumped the responsibility of parenting on HER CHILDREN.

JMO

Cubby - I think it can be described as tunnel vision. You are so completely consumed with your obsessions you lose touch with reality...

 

[laniefi]

my snip

the thing is, perhaps she had no control over that either....at least she wouldnt have had the control a mentally healthy person would have. she may have gotten the idea that the pills were contaminated or suchlike.

a child will refuse medicine if it tastes badly, an adult taking nyquil knows it tastes horrendous but will take it because the mentally healthy adult KNOWS that it's only nasty for a minute and the good will soon outweigh the bad.

JB may not have gotten to where she could know the good would outweigh the bad.

mind you, as I posted before meds are not very helpful in OCD and I cant speak for why she didnt go to therapy...this disease is brutal and wants nothing more than to protect itself like any other parasite. and it IS PARASITICAL. this is impossible maybe to explain to someone without it, that JB would not be in control of herself like you might think she was.

disclaimer: I'm not all caught up yet, I dont have many opinions yet, but I did want to point out that someone with as much issues as JB probably did not WANT to be that way.


eta: I just read your above post and see that I am preaching to the choir :hug:

That is very true. She may not have gotten meds and therapy LONG ENOUGH to get her to a place mentally where she could make rational decisions. Very true...

 

[Peliman]

Since she immigrated from Russia Julia is not her "original" name. Russian equivalent of Julia is in fact Yulia. So it's possible to spell it both ways, it just depends which way she prefers to spell it.

Question please: How old was she when she immigrated from Russia if anyone knows?

 

[laniefi]

Question please: How old was she when she immigrated from Russia if anyone knows?

I want to say 12...can someone confirm?

 

[oh_gal]

I'm not replying to you exactly, just in general re: the coat and car seat thing

I dont necessarily think it's odd to not coat up a child in a car seat, because presumably you have the car heated up or whatever, it's that she supposedly left sky, alone, in an unlocked car, in the cold, without a coat, and he was supposedly sick enough that she was taking him to the hospital.

it does not add up. I'm still reading up but so far my opinion was he was never in the car at all.

I read somewhere that the car wasnt truly out of gas/petrol, can anyone confirm or deny that for me?

Not to mention the fact that someone could come along and hit the car (with Sky in it) as it sat on the side of the road....hello???!! (Not directed at you, Gold, just the apparent...non-thinking going on here, if, indeed, he was in the car).

 

[2goldfish]

Several of us have expressed the opinion (assuming what we have heard about her mental issues is true) that while Julia might be guilty of harming her child, that she is also a victim of her illness and a system that failed to help her or her family.

This is not a pardon, nor does it excuse what she did (assuming she did anything), but a statement of reality. I would say that Julia slipped through the cracks in our mental healthcare system, but we are not talking about a system with a few cracks. We have chasms.

We could fill those chasms, but that costs money, and as a society we have other priorities. We care about American Idol, we care about blowing **** up on the other side of the world, we care about football and granite countertops and whether or not someone is gay. We care more about saving the endangered Snaperdoodle than whether every child has enough to eat.

We don't care about someone losing their home to foreclosure, or someone who's career just got exported to China. We don't care that there are millions of people in this country who's only form of healthcare is prayer. We don't care that there are a million American kids who went to bed tonight hungry, and who will get dropped off at school tomorrow after sleeping in their car. And if it's "only" a mental health issue? Well we damn sure don't care about that.

Our solution to mental health for most is prayer and prison.

And I think we can do better.

wonderful post, great post, I agree 1 million percent, yes that is 100% many times over. if I could ever find the happy clappy smilie you'd have a round of applause.

 

[JeannaT]

I get what you are saying, but they can only report what she is telling them, they can't outright say she is a liar or that they know she is a liar without some proof. No doubt they will uncover the truth sooner or later and they can then clarify it, but at this point they have no choice. LE can say what they know in public, not what they believe or suspect.
And at this point, I'm sad to say, we cannot prove that she did NOT leave the boy in the car, because they had done it before, they have it on record. And why would Solomon have sensed she was lying, when he was guilty of doing the same thing?
What I'm having trouble understanding is why so many people are so aghast at the idea of leaving him alone in the car and blast her endlessly for it, yet turn around and say they don't believe her. Either she did or she didn't. If we're going to criticize her for being so careless, we cannot also say she's lying, she never left him, he was never in the car that day at all. Can't have it both ways.

You make really good points.

But, I am almost always "on the fence" when a suspect claims innocence. I really err on the side of thinking, it COULD be true what they're saying. With her, I just don't feel she's innocent.

Good point on not blasting her for leaving the child in the car and then stating there's no way Sky was in that car.

 

[Peliman]

I want to say 12...can someone confirm?

Is it a possibility she could be housed at the Russian Embassy?

Do police know where Julia Biryukova is?

 

[laniefi]

fact is, the meds barely do anything at all for OCD. behaviour therapy only, because you have to...retrain yourself to think & react normally. it is extremely hard work.


no link as everything I can find is drug company related and says otherwise, alas. you must trust my years & years of personal experience I guess.

So true, I had to actually tell myself to leave the ornaments on our Christmas tree that my husband hung ALONE! I kept wanting to fidget with them and rearrage them to be PERFECT.

Even though I am in a very good place mentally now it still pops up in such wierd ways (at least for me).

P.S. - I was so proud of myself that I did not touch any of the ornaments! LOL