WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #4

[emeraldine]

It could have been a thrift store belt.

All the clothes could have been thrift store clothes.

He might have just grabbed whatever he could afford - especially if he was young.

 

[Roselvr]

Would it be so difficult to pay for his DNA to be analyzed and stored on sites like Ancestry.com? I am sure it would have a hit, and one could take it from there and figure out the branch he belongs to.

I gave info in the thread where it can be done for free with all but Family Tree which was $99. They could probably have it donated if CCM asked. I was just telling outofthedark that I want to see if someone can pass the info to him.

This might be weird, but I'm not sure if the clothes that were too large were really an indicator of having lost weight recently... Was there physical evidence of him having lost significant weight recently, or was that just because of the clothing sizes?

They believed he had been heavier due to the belt being worn more in places which indicated he had been heavier.

He had the stretch marks that gave them the idea that the clothes probably were his. We know he had money; why didn't he buy clothes that fit?

 

[Roselvr]

Found it. They can't do 23 and me because they need saliva. I think the adoption angels would help out here too

08-10-2013, 10:28 AM #658

I posted in the FB group the other day to CCD; asking if there is any more DNA for Lyle; also told him about 23andme; then also sharing the data with other sites. He most likely could get it all donated. I mentioned the same thing in another case.

08-08-2013, 09:27 AM #165 posted in CO - Christopher Enoch Abeyta, 7 months, Colorado Springs, 15 July 1986

Not sure if you got my PM here or on FB. If you'd like a link to the adoption group I go to; PM me.

If your brother was told he was adopted; it's possible he's going to order a family tree DNA kit from 23andme. It's the cheapest one out there & has the largest database. A LOT of adoptees are doing it to try to find their birth parents. You as well as your dad or male sibling should submit one in case he tries it. I'll copy a post on an adoption site to explain how to get your DNA into other sites as well...

There are groups of DNA search angels who will help you and educate you on how this works so you can then help others. People are finding their relatives every single WEEK~! do 23andme.com $99 and once you have those results upload to FTDNA (Family tree DNA) for about $99 and to GEDmatch and a DNA Tools site DNAgedcom.com both free.


23 and me- buy 1 kit at $99 get additional kits 20% off! They're really trying to have the largest registry!

How this offer works:
* Requires purchase of one kit at full price ($99)
* 20% off applies to each additional kit purchased in the same order
* Redeem online following the offer link
* No promo code needed

 

[astridxx]

If someone wanted to start a go fund me page to raise funds for this i would be willing to donate if the cops also sign off on releasing the DNA for that purpose.


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[outofthedark]

Lyle's crime scene pictures have now gotten 2,214 views in the mere 4 days that they've been online.

 

[Vabrownid1]

Typically, a cleft chin (what Lyle has) is visible even with obesity.

Because I am trained in facial shape analysis (I work with similar software that is being used in the video comparison), I can surmise that it isn't the same person. The intercanthal distance is different. The palpebral fissure is different. The frontal fridge, and subsequent placement of the orbital sockets is different. The nasal ala is also quite differently oriented. In addition, their mandibles just don't match. The shape and the occlusion of the jaws - Lyle has a much more prominent chin from the bony landmark of gnathion (leading me to believe he has American Indian blood in him). Typical caucasian chins slope directly downwards (like Dukic's), while Lyle's is more protruding.

Yes, I agree with this. My son has a cleft chin and was quite chubby in his early-teen years, now that he has lost all of the weight, his chin still looks the same. I also see the Native American.

 

[Estelle1]

My first post, and a very long one!

Yesterday I was looking at something on Wikipedia, and you know how it is - you start clicking on this and that, and before you know it, you've ended up on something completely random. Anyway, I discovered Lyle's Wiki page, and was fascinated from the offset. From there I discovered this place, and, many hours later, I've just finished reading every post in all four threads. I can't stop thinking about this case, which is heartbreakingly tragic, yet utterly, utterly bizarre. The bulk of information on here is posted by ColdCaseMan from 2006 to 2009. Is he still around? He seemed like a great guy, and a talented detective who brought us so much valuable information.

Anyway, as I was approaching the last few pages of this (the fourth) thread, those photos were posted on Reddit which are shocking to see. What a poor, poor soul. After reading everything, the part that saddens me the most is how Lyle left the money "for the room". I don't know why but that absolutely flaws me.

Everything has already been discussed in great detail, but I have a few observations about the case reports that were posted a couple of pages back.

1. Hotel clerk asks Lyle if he had 'used' the room when he asked to change because of noise. He says he 'messed up' the pillows. When she asked him if he had used the shower, he said no. Staff found out that he did. It's an odd thing to lie about, no? If he didn't want to inconvenience staff, who would have to inspect the room for future guests, why say he had messed up the pillows? They would have had gone in to sort them out so a quick inspection of the shower wouldn't have made any difference.

2. Hotel clerk didn't ask Lyle for ID when he was checking in because he looked 'okay'. But what if she did? We're presuming Lyle wasn't his real name, so if he had chosen this place specifically to end his life, could he have fallen at the first hurdle? He wouldn't have any documentation in Lyle's name to book the room in the first place. Was the name change a spur of the moment thing?

3. Hotel clerk says Lyle looked 'spaced out' when he returned an hour later to change the room (I'm paraphrasing a bit here, but it's in the case file). She said he gave her 'bad vibes'. What made her change her opinion from him looking 'okay' an hour earlier?

4. Up until the Reddit photos were released, Lyle's weight loss was constantly referred to because of the belt buckle and baggy trousers. But to me he looks borderline emaciated, almost skeletal, rather than just thin. Is this just the camera, perhaps? I say this because it's so apparent that it would have been something mentioned by the coroner - it wasn't. When the original autopsy photos were posted, Lyle was compared to a Calvin Klein model, what with the high cheekbones and square jaw. But the photos posted this week tell a different tale, and it looks like an eating disorder of some kind. Is that why it's so hard to determine his age? He has the body of a teenager, but the face of someone in his mid to late twenties.

5. Lyle's ethnicity is still so hard to determine by looking at him. In some photos he looks Native American, in others Eastern European/Russian.

And I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping someone can answer. On Reddit, there's mention of a phone number to someone called 'Caroline' on a piece of paper found in Lyle's pocket. I don't remember reading anything about this on here. Maybe I missed that, what's that about? Has someone got confused?

Is it conventional behaviour (perhaps there's no such thing in a case like this) to stay in a motel for three whole nights before taking your own life if it was pre-planned a long time beforehand? Lyle only paid for the first night upfront so again he's taking a risk (like in point 2) that the room wouldn't be booked for those subsequent nights. Unless it just wasn't that busy, but would he have known that before his arrival? Did plans change? A delay in his final actions? Again this is based on the consensus that Lyle travelled to the motel with the intention of suicide, and it wasn't on the spur of the moment. I wonder what he was doing Saturday and Sunday, apart from the sightings of him on the porch and 'pacing' the highway. Where did he buy the newspaper? Withdraw the money? What about food? Did he watch TV in the room? Read that Bible? It's a lot of time to kill when you're on your own in what seems like the middle of nowhere.

Also, who posted those photos on Reddit after all these years? And the case files? Why now, and for what purpose?

 

[Coffeelover]

Sorry if this has been previously discussed and it's very obvious, but I noticed that Amanda Park is on the edge of the Quinault Indian Reservation. I wonder if there is any connection?

 

[curioser]

And I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping someone can answer. On Reddit, there's mention of a phone number to someone called 'Caroline' on a piece of paper found in Lyle's pocket. I don't remember reading anything about this on here. Maybe I missed that, what's that about? Has someone got confused?

The Caroline note was from Grateful Doe, not Lyle. He has a forum here at http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?172-Grateful-Dead-Fan

And to address your points 1 and 3, I'm wondering if he made a "first attempt" just after he checked into the room, but it didn't work for some reason. That may explain why he "messed up" the pillows (hung them on the sides). And that would explain why he seemed spaced out. And maybe he really didn't remember about the shower at that point. This would also explain the odd behavior for a few days- he tried, but failed, so it threw him off. Maybe he struggled with whether it really was the right decision, or had to psych himself up to try again.

 

[Vabrownid1]

:welcome:

Awesome post!!

 

[catlike]

I waver some with the eating disorder. Only because as stated if it was a disorder that had taken place over time I think there would have been more evidence of this on his teeth and I believe I read in the past that evidence can also be found in the esophagus. Gastric contents can be extremely erosive and destroys the lining of the throat

Eating disorders don't necessarily include vomiting (although it is more likely than not). Wonder if that is why he kept that toothbrush and toothpaste so close—to prevent damage? Just throwing that out there as a thought.

 

[HeinzDoofenshmirtz]

Eating disorders don't necessarily include vomiting (although it is more likely than not). Wonder if that is why he kept that toothbrush and toothpaste so close—to prevent damage? Just throwing that out there as a thought.

It's also possible that perhaps he started off vomiting before just starving himself completely. Or perhaps he didn't eat often and only vomited when he did.


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[Estelle1]

The Caroline note was from Grateful Doe, not Lyle.

I'm not familiar with that case, but thanks for clearing that up!

I'm wondering if he made a "first attempt" just after he checked into the room, but it didn't work for some reason. That may explain why he "messed up" the pillows (hung them on the sides). And that would explain why he seemed spaced out. And maybe he really didn't remember about the shower at that point. This would also explain the odd behavior for a few days- he tried, but failed, so it threw him off. Maybe he struggled with whether it really was the right decision, or had to psych himself up to try again.

I'd never thought of it that way before, and now I'm wondering that too. But then again, it's a major shift in behaviour for the Saturday and Sunday. What Lyle wanted to do didn't work for whatever reason, but then he decided to extend his stay and spend the weekend reading the local newspaper, drinking cola (ColdCaseMan mentioned there was a soft drink cup with Coke on the front), and brushing his teeth, before trying again. But then the 'pacing' does suggest some kind of mental anguish, and anything is possible in this case it seems.

Eating disorders don't necessarily include vomiting (although it is more likely than not). Wonder if that is why he kept that toothbrush and toothpaste so close—to prevent damage? Just throwing that out there as a thought.

Another interesting point.

Regarding the eating disorder, it seems odd that it wasn't even suggested as a possibility in the case notes when describing his appearance. To these eyes, it looks like Lyle had lost a terrifying amount of weight, but then again, it could just be the photos. After all, you would have thought that the coroner would have picked up on something, even if there was no tooth damage. The weight loss was attributed to the clothes and belt notches - I don't think an eating disorder was ever suggested until the Reddit photos this week.

One final thing - on page 15 of the second case file, the coroner mentions four teeth were missing (#5, #12, #17, and #32), but no mention of what replaced them. I'm presuming implants of some kind, suggesting orthodontic work in the past? Orthodontics was mentioned from the very beginning, but what would this be exactly if all the other teeth, and I quote, were in "perfect" condition? Are these the teeth an orthodontist would remove to make way for braces? Or as I missing something completely? Maybe I didn't read that right.

I've also tried searching all the online newspaper archives for The Daily World for Sunday, September 16th, 2001, but to no avail. It's not catalogued anywhere it seems. I know CCM said there wasn't anything of any relevance that pertains to this case, but it would be interesting to see everything inside regardless.

 

[AliceInPain]

One final thing - on page 15 of the second case file, the coroner mentions four teeth were missing (#5, #12, #17, and #32), but no mention of what replaced them.

I think nothing would replace #17 and #32 as I think those are wisdom teeth.
Re #5 and #12 they are on the opposite side of each other on the top and my son had those exact teeth extracted last year before he was fitted with braces to treat his overbite.
His front teeth are straight now and the overbite gone, however he still needs braces to close the gaps where they pulled his teeth out. You can't tell unless he pulls his lip back.

Maybe Lyle had similar treatment but had the braces removed before it was finished?

 

[Damarna]

I think nothing would replace #17 and #32 as I think those are wisdom teeth.
Re #5 and #12 they are on the opposite side of each other on the top and my son had those exact teeth extracted last year before he was fitted with braces to treat his overbite.
His front teeth are straight now and the overbite gone, however he still needs braces to close the gaps where they pulled his teeth out. You can't tell unless he pulls his lip back.

Maybe Lyle had similar treatment but had the braces removed before it was finished?

I am thinking this is what occurred. Makes sense. [emoji106]

 

[outofthedark]

For those wondering about body hair, his chest appears in one of the photos they took of the cuts on his hand.

 

[emeraldine]

I never thought about this until I saw the post above, even though it was always obvious...really, it seems strange that nobody asked for his ID. Every time I have stayed in a hotel, check-in was very thorough. The person at the front desk has always asked for personal information for every adult staying in the room(name/address/phone number/picture ID), all vehicle information if applicable(VIN/license plate/year/make/model), etc.

They have asked me for these things even if they remembered me from previous visits.

How does looking "okay" make a license check not necessary? Situations like this are exactly why they're supposed to ask...you never know who LE is going to call you back about later on, wanting an identity and/or time of check-out.

Maybe he already knew that place wouldn't be "carding" him(and, therefore, it was no risk to him)...they don't seem to have already known him, though.

 

[Estelle1]

I never thought about this until I saw the post above, even though it was always obvious...really, it seems strange that nobody asked for his ID. Every time I have stayed in a hotel, check-in was very thorough. The person at the front desk has always asked for personal information for every adult staying in the room(name/address/phone number/picture ID), all vehicle information if applicable(VIN/license plate/year/make/model), etc.

They have asked me for these things even if they remembered me from previous visits.

How does looking "okay" make a license check not necessary? Situations like this are exactly why they're supposed to ask...you never know who LE is going to call you back about later on, wanting an identity and/or time of check-out.

Maybe he already knew that place wouldn't be "carding" him(and, therefore, it was no risk to him)...they don't seem to have already known him, though.

Agree with all of this. Nowadays you'd find it hard to check-in anywhere without providing ID of some kind. And this was 2001, not 1951. Booking systems are used to capture personal details for marketing, as well as for security, so identification is pretty much a necessity. Maybe Lyle just got "lucky" and slipped through the system? I know this was a motel, not a hotel, so check-in policies wouldn't have been as strict. But judging by the photos of the room and the exterior, it looks a pretty decent place and not the kind of motel where "no questions are asked".

There were not one, but two, instances when Lyle could have been asked for identification; when he was checking in, and the second point of contact - the room change. The 'I didn't ask him for ID because he looked okay' suggests that the establishment did have a policy of asking some guests, so there's no way Lyle could have been absolutely sure that a room there was a given without providing whatever they needed.

This whole case still boggles my mind.

 

[Roselvr]

We discussed the ID in the FB group; this was right after 9/11; someone had experience with the area; possibly the hotel & said they did not need ID back then. The East Coast has been very tight with everything since 9/11

I gave info in the thread where it can be done for free with all but Family Tree which was $99. They could probably have it donated if CCM asked. I was just telling outofthedark that I want to see if someone can pass the info to him.

He had the stretch marks that gave them the idea that the clothes probably were his. We know he had money; why didn't he buy clothes that fit?

I spent time yesterday passing on the DNA for genealogy to Lyle's case manager; so cross your fingers. She was very interested in it. I can't promise that it will happen for Lyle but it's possible that at some point with other cases it will be routine to upload to various databases. I do not know the legalities or if HIPPA would come into play.

 

[brett1968]

We discussed the ID in the FB group; this was right after 9/11; someone had experience with the area; possibly the hotel & said they did not need ID back then. The East Coast has been very tight with everything since 9/11



I spent time yesterday passing on the DNA for genealogy to Lyle's case manager; so cross your fingers. She was very interested in it. I can't promise that it will happen for Lyle but it's possible that at some point with other cases it will be routine to upload to various databases. I do not know the legalities or if HIPPA would come into play.

Roselvr, the DNA moving all of a sudden and the extreme interest by his case manager makes me even more certain that this man is Ilija Dukic.