WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

[Alleykins]

His was the only one I saved.

Thanks for getting back to me.

 

[Roselvr]

Exactly, dot! Thanks for posting the picture. My pc wasn't cooperating. Wonder why he's not in NamUs. He's a handsome feller.

He needs entering

The possibilities really are endless, aren't they? He has features that a lot of people from a lot of different places have. I guess it's good some people are focused on different places though and look into them. Question: I guess I read on Reddit or somewhere that the isotopes were only analyzed for North America and if it turns out he was born/raised in Europe or elsewhere that wouldn't show up? Does anyone know if that is true? I've read the isotopes results (most of it), but English is not my first language and reports like that aren't the easiest for me to read. Did I miss that part? Just to know if looking into missing people from Europe (born and/or raised) would make sense or not.

The analysis of Lyle's hair and whatever other samples they use would be complete. It indicates the presence of certain chemicals that would have been ingested from the environment during his life. That chemical "signature" doesn't change, and it can be compared to the chemical profile of the water in any given area.

They also have maps of the chemical profiles of the water in many areas.

So what they're saying is they compared his isotope signature to the known profiles of water around North America. (Most of the cases I've followed only compare to the US map.) That means he might be from Europe; they can't say either way because they didn't check.

If they want to compare his chemical profile to maps from Europe or other areas, I'm pretty sure they don't have to repeat the testing, they just do the new comparison. But I'm not one hundred per cent positive on that.

Had Lyle been from Europe, it would have said that. Look at the one Florida Jane Doe that was raised in a small town in Greece.
If I'm reading it right, and I don't have it up, there are 2 ways to read isotope results via city tap water or wells, the Canadian results come in to play if he drank well water

 

[dotr]

He needs entering



Had Lyle been from Europe, it would have said that. Look at the one Florida Jane Doe that was raised in a small town in Greece.
If I'm reading it right, and I don't have it up, there are 2 ways to read isotope results via city tap water or wells, the Canadian results come in to play if he drank well water

http://phys.org/news/2008-02-hair-reveals-victims-drank.html

Hair Reveals Where Murder Victims Drank Water
February 25, 2008

University of Utah scientists developed a new crime-fighting tool by showing that human hair reveals the general location where a person drank water, helping police track past movements of criminal suspects or unidentified murder victims.

"You are what you eat and drink - and that is recorded in your hair," says geochemist Thure (pronounced Tur-ee) Cerling, who led the research effort with ecologist Jim Ehleringer.

Their findings are being published online Feb. 25 in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The new hair analysis method also may prove useful to anthropologists, archaeologists and medical doctors in addition to police.

"We have found significant variations in hydrogen and oxygen isotopes in hair and water that relate to where a person lives in the United States," Ehleringer says. "Police are already using this to reconstruct the possible origins of unidentified murder victims."

One such officer is Salt Lake County Sheriff's Detective Todd Park, who is using the new type of hair analysis in an effort to identify a murdered woman whose remains were found near the Great Salt Lake in October 2000.

"It's a phenomenal method," says Park, a member of his department's cold case homicide unit. "I think it will help the law enforcement community a great deal."

The study found a strong correlation between hydrogen and oxygen isotope levels in hair and drinking water; 85 percent of the variation in isotope levels in a person's hair was explained by variations in drinking water isotope levels in areas where they spent time.

So a single hair can help determine a person's location during recent weeks to years, depending on the length of the hair sample and thus how much time it took to grow.

The scientists used the method to produce color-coded maps showing how ratios of hydrogen and oxygen isotopes in scalp hair vary in different areas of the United States.

the maps cannot pinpoint a person's exact locations in the past, but identifies general geographic areas where they stayed and drank local water.

"You can tell the difference between Utah and Texas," Ehleringer says. But, Cerling adds, "You may not be able to distinguish between Chicago and Kansas City."

sotope concentrations vary seasonally in rain and snow, but drinking water in reservoirs or ground water represents a region's average precipitation over time and space.

Drinking water from any area has an isotope signature that is incorporated into growing hair. That signature is not complicated by other beverages because "a significant fraction of beer, soft drinks and milk is local in its origin," Ehleringer says.

The study found that areas where drinking water and hair have the lowest concentrations of hydrogen-2 and oxygen-18 include northern and western Montana, north-central Idaho and northwest Wyoming. The heavy isotopes drop out of clouds before they reach those inland areas because of both the cold and the distance from the Pacific Ocean.

Regions with the highest amounts of hydrogen-2 and oxygen-18 in drinking water and hair were southern Oklahoma, north-central Texas, Florida, south Georgia and southern South Carolina. Heavy isotope levels are high there because most water falls as summer rain and some evaporates from lakes, leaving more of the heavier isotopes behind in drinking water.

The two maps here show predicted average hydrogen (top) and oxygen (bottom) isotope levels in human hair across the continental United States -- isotopes that vary with geography because of different isotope levels in local drinking water. The ratios of heavy, rare hydrogen-2 to lighter, common hydrogen -1 are highest in red and orange areas in the top map, and lowest in the blue and darker green areas. The ratios of heavy, rare oxygen-18 to lighter, common oxygen-16 are highest in red and orange areas of the bottom map, and lowest in the blue and darker green areas. Photo Credit: The University of Utah

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, but you have to have a map of verified isotope results for ground and rain water before you can compare. That information is spotty or nonexistent for many parts of the world.

The Florida woman was compared to Greece in part because of a potential match from Greece. I never did hear how that turned out.


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[Roselvr]

Yeah, but you have to have a map of verified isotope results for ground and rain water before you can compare. That information is spotty or nonexistent for many parts of the world.

The Florida woman was compared to Greece in part because of a potential match from Greece. I never did hear how that turned out.


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Little Miss Panasoffkee thread

Clues emerge in cold case murder that may be tied to Tarpon Springs By Peter Jamison, Times Staff Writer Saturday, June 30, 2012 12:03pm

It's the stuff of popular mystery fiction: A young woman from a European village disappears in Florida in the wake of Epiphany, the Greek Orthodox celebration that annually attracts thousands to the coastal community of Tarpon Springs.

The woman's skeletal structure suggested she was of European descent, Kimmerle said. High-density strands in her bones, called Harris Lines, indicated she had endured some kind of childhood ailment that briefly arrested her growth — perhaps malnutrition or sickness.

Little Miss Lake Panasoffkee's remains were sent to George Kamenov in the department of geological sciences at the University of Florida. Kamenov tried to determine where she was from by studying the lead isotopes in her teeth.

The method is particularly useful in guessing whether somebody was born in Europe or the United States, Kamenov said. The teeth of those who grew up in Europe carry a distinctive lead signal, since European countries used leaded gasoline from Australia at a time when North American countries did not.

Kamenov went further. Comparing Little Miss Lake Panasoffkee's lead levels to those on record in various parts of Europe, he was able to pinpoint her possible hometown: Lavrion, a small fishing port southeast of Athens, Greece.

 

[carbuff]

Okay, that's fascinating. Also isn't the same kind of isotope as from the water. This is more like being able to identify kids who grew up downwind of Nevada's nuclear test facility by radiation elements in their bones.

It seems that there are dozens of potential tests that might offer clues. But which ones are likely to pan out?


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[jessr927]

Off topic, I have never seen ears attached like that.

FWIW, my boyfriend has attached earlobes and so does Don Henley of the Eagles

 

[carbuff]

So does my d-i-l. Hers are too tiny to even pierce.


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[Roselvr]

Okay, that's fascinating. Also isn't the same kind of isotope as from the water. This is more like being able to identify kids who grew up downwind of Nevada's nuclear test facility by radiation elements in their bones.

It seems that there are dozens of potential tests that might offer clues. But which ones are likely to pan out?


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Good question.

FWIW, my boyfriend has attached earlobes and so does Don Henley of the EaglesView attachment 99286

What is your BF's nationality?

 

[thecure123]

I also question of all places, why Washington he chose. I figured a place like Amanda Park especially after 9/11 would definitely recognize a foreigner as it was a small area. Or more sadly is that no one recognized him or paid any attention to him the time he was there. I assumed shortly after 9/11 everyone ( as I was just in middle school) was suspicious of others and would want to get to know their neighbors more just for comfort.

 

[Skigirl]

I also question of all places, why Washington he chose. I figured a place like Amanda Park especially after 9/11 would definitely recognize a foreigner as it was a small area. Or more sadly is that no one recognized him or paid any attention to him the time he was there. I assumed shortly after 9/11 everyone ( as I was just in middle school) was suspicious of others and would want to get to know their neighbors more just for comfort.

I remember 9/11 and after that very well. Really, even in the tiniest, most provincial towns, the only time people got hysterical about a stranger is if they were male, and looked potentially middle-Eastern. I doubt that Lyle would have raised eyebrows any more than a stranger ever would have in that town. Surely they wouldn't have expected to know every person who stayed in the motel, since the purpose of a motel is to provide a place to stay for people who are not from the area.

 

[jessr927]

What is your BF's nationality?

Half Irish, 1/4 German, 1/4 Italian.
Don Henley also mentioned Italian ancestry in a print interview I came across. Henley sounds like an Irish name though and his mother had an Irish maiden name IIRC (McWhorter?)

 

[Not_Important_]

Just wanted to let you guys know that the people over on /r/lylestevik on Reddit may have found some interesting new leads. I'm not sure if I can link to subreddits on WS but if you google "lyle stevik reddit" it should be the first link that pops up.

Here's a quick summary of what's going on. A user on reddit noticed that the isotope data lines up pretty nicely with past performance dates of a traveling circus, Circus Chimera. We also have some news articles corroborating the gaps between the performance dates. Additionally, a google maps with markers for all of the performances and news article mentions was created and is linked to on the subreddit.


There's a high chance this is nothing, but we would love more brainpower to sift through this.

 

[Alleykins]

Just wanted to let you guys know that the people over on /r/lylestevik on Reddit may have found some interesting new leads. I'm not sure if I can link to subreddits on WS but if you google "lyle stevik reddit" it should be the first link that pops up.
Here's a quick summary of what's going on. A user on reddit noticed that the isotope data lines up pretty nicely with past performance dates of a traveling circus, Circus Chimera. We also have some news articles corroborating the gaps between the performance dates. Additionally, a google maps with markers for all of the performances and news article mentions was created and is linked to on the subreddit.
There's a high chance this is nothing, but we would love more brainpower to sift through this.

That's a very interesting lead. Thank you for the heads up!

 

[U2forever]

Half Irish, 1/4 German, 1/4 Italian.
Don Henley also mentioned Italian ancestry in a print interview I came across. Henley sounds like an Irish name though and his mother had an Irish maiden name IIRC (McWhorter?)

I have an Aunt (maternal side) who married a McWhorter many many years ago. He died a few years ago. That is a name I rarely hear.


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[CD82]

WHOA
re: Reddit

Someone found a picture of the cast of Circus Chimera and one of the dudes DEFINITELY resembles Lyle. More than anyone else I've seen. What a break in this case, I'm totally lost for words here. People are amazing!

 

[Roselvr]

Just wanted to let you guys know that the people over on /r/lylestevik on Reddit may have found some interesting new leads. I'm not sure if I can link to subreddits on WS but if you google "lyle stevik reddit" it should be the first link that pops up.

Here's a quick summary of what's going on. A user on reddit noticed that the isotope data lines up pretty nicely with past performance dates of a traveling circus, Circus Chimera. We also have some news articles corroborating the gaps between the performance dates. Additionally, a google maps with markers for all of the performances and news article mentions was created and is linked to on the subreddit.


There's a high chance this is nothing, but we would love more brainpower to sift through this.

Chimera Circus Route Map (Sept 2000-September 2001) [See Comments] - Thanks to u/throwaway4048675309 Map link

 

[Alleykins]

I think that picture of the guy in that link is a definite possibility, even though the person looks a little heavier. A report I read stated that the UP had recently lost some weight, so that could explain the difference in size. This is just my observation, it could also be a the camera angle and the way the person in the picture is leaning.

 

[Roselvr]

I think that picture of the guy in that link is a definite possibility, even though the person looks a little heavier. A report I read stated that the UP had recently lost some weight, so that could explain the difference in size. This is just my observation, it could also be a the camera angle and the way the person in the picture is leaning.

Here is the pic. I'm just waking up, what I found of the circus is they use a lot of Mexican workers
For Circus Chimera, the show won’t go on

 

[MsRyber]

The eye brows on the striped shirt guy don't really curve. And this nose is really straight. I'm going to go out on a limb and say not him, but I think it is a good lead, none the less. If only there were another couple pictures that surface.