WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

[htiff]

I agree; he knew the motel for a reason. I don't think they recognized him because the old recon didn't look like him. Had they had Carls or seen pics of his clothing they may have recognized him.

We never saw his clothes or boots till Eugene got the photos via FOIA. I wish Carl would have done a full body recon.

I don't consider his clothes grunge. Many people I know wear Tims, Tshirts with flannels and jeans.

I started looking in thread 4 but just don't have time. You also may want to go to his Reddit because they've looked at pretty much everything. I follow him here, the FB group and Reddit when I had time. I thought we discussed the boots here but maybe its one of the other places.

The boots he is wearing are unusual. And true "grunge" look was not dirty, or about being tatted up. In fact, if you look at Cobain, he's almost preppy at times. The true grunge look was low key--an everyman's look. The idea was that it was a look for everyone. It was a look of inclusivity, rather and exclusivity. And the movement itself, had an intellectual side to it. I beg to differ that the look Lyle has in his attire is not emulating, (or very close to emulating), the Seattle dress trends of that time.

The following is a documentary from 1984 on street-kids in Seattle. At the 15 minute mark you get a good overview of some of the kids who aren't as down on their luck. I few look like a young Lyle (the style of dress is '80s, pre-grunge, post-punk; but you can see that these kids were into the style of the time)--


http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsand...-five-cult-documentaries-that-you-need-to-see

I've known a lot of street-kids and they aren't all as bad off as the ones portrayed in this film. But you can see from this doc that these kids travel around a lot. Some look, and speak, as if they had a good home life early on, or at least one that would have provided basic medical and braces, at some point. They all have different stories as to why they left home. Some are very, very young.

Some of these kids do better than others, because they find an older person who lets them live with them for "companionship". Or they manage to work a little, flop a little, but don't really have to survive the meaner elements of the streets. But they are clean in appearance. Not all are on drugs. And they are very creative as to how they survive.

Spoiler Alert: Dwayne, in this film, who looks to still be a minor, does hang himself. Sadly, you can be a kid, one who never even made it through junior high, and know how to successfully hang yourself.

Just something to look at, as all the possibilities of who Lyle might have been are considered.

Sometimes we have to get our heads out of our bias, to see what is right in front of us.

 

[htiff]

<rsbm>

According to the detective, the clerk thought he had a backpack:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?39426-WA-Unidentified-Male-quot-Lyle-Stevik-quot-Grays-Harbor-17-Sept-2001-2&p=1190671#post1190671

Maybe. But even if he had a backpack, doesn't really change what he was wearing.

 

[htiff]

I agree; he knew the motel for a reason. I don't think they recognized him because the old recon didn't look like him. Had they had Carls or seen pics of his clothing they may have recognized him.

We never saw his clothes or boots till Eugene got the photos via FOIA. I wish Carl would have done a full body recon.

I don't consider his clothes grunge. Many people I know wear Tims, Tshirts with flannels and jeans.

I started looking in thread 4 but just don't have time. You also may want to go to his Reddit because they've looked at pretty much everything. I follow him here, the FB group and Reddit when I had time. I thought we discussed the boots here but maybe its one of the other places.

Those photos make all the difference. You can see Lyle's hair style. You can really see his face, in a way you can't in the reconstructions. I have done a 180 on who I thought this guy was.

 

[bears10]

Why do you think the boots are so unusual? Because you can't find them in a google search? FWIW if I tried to find google images of the Steve Madden shoes I wore in 2001 I doubt I'd be too successful. Especially the ones that weren't the major popular ones. Also maybe the boots were a gift. God bless his soul but one year I wanted a specific pair of uggs and my dad got me pretty much the complete opposite of what I wanted. I still kept them and wore them all the time though. JMO but the boots don't hold the key to his identity.

 

[htiff]

Why do you think the boots are so unusual? Because you can't find them in a google search? FWIW if I tried to find google images of the Steve Madden shoes I wore in 2001 I doubt I'd be too successful. Especially the ones that weren't the major popular ones. Also maybe the boots were a gift. God bless his soul but one year I wanted a specific pair of uggs and my dad got me pretty much the complete opposite of what I wanted. I still kept them and wore them all the time though. JMO but the boots don't hold the key to his identity.

All I have to offer at this time are anecdotes and empirical evidence, but I'm certain these boots only had a short run.

And when the description is given of Lyle, being dressed in all new clothing, that is just plain wrong.

Those boots were very worn at the heel. And why no curiosity as to why this guy wasn't wearing socks? That is odd. I know guys who didn't wear socks, because that was also a style at one point. But it was a little rebellious to wear boots and no socks. Or, Lyle just didn't have socks at the time he died.

The google searches I've performed weren't just for Timberlands, I was also on the search to find those specific boot soles. I couldn't even find those soles on any brand--and Timberlands and Docs often had a similar style of sole. The particular sole on Lyle's boot is unusual, period.

Here's a challenge: find that sole. Someone? If you think these boots are common, find a sole anything like the ones on Lyle's boots. Take the sole challenge!

I was looking something up on this case the other day, and I found no fewer than 20 pages of google links. And not ONE link, or article, not a single one, addressed the boots.

I do find it remarkable that this case could have been in grist of the internet mill for almost two decades and there is such a complete dearth of examination of the most tangible clues we have about this young man---What Lyle was wearing. These are tangibles, and I bet they are gone now.

This is one of those interesting cases to have followed for so long. Thousands of people pouring over this man's life and the most obvious evidence of who this guy is, was basically, just completely ignored.

Remarkable.

 

[htiff]

Lyle tangibles and not-so-tangibles:

--Lyle had more money than he needed for the duration of his stay (another fact that I don't remember being publicized). He paid for the first night of his stay when checking in, so technically he only owed for two more nights. This would have been around $90.00. He left 160.00.

--Lyle had eight, one-dollar bills in his back pocket. And a blue-uniball pen, in his right front pocket.

--Lyle's clothing consisted of a light-blue plaid flannel shirt; most likely worn on top of an oversized grey T. His Levis were baggy; and his belt was longer than it needed to be.

--Lyle wore no socks! and his boots were very, very worn Timberlands. (If you look closely at his foot, in one of the pictures he has what might be a corn, perhaps an indication that the boots caused some friction)

--Lyle's toothbrush and toothpaste had been recently purchased. The paste was barely used, and the brush was still stored in its box. Both were placed neatly to one side of a drawer (a little unusual if you think about it, most people like to let their toothbrush air dry after use). On the opposite side of that same drawer was loose change, laid out on a brochure or informational pamphlet of some kind.

The newspaper in the trash, didn't look as if it had been read. He had a soda at some point during his stay and discarded the empty, also in the trash.

--Lyle received a lot of towels from the maid, but only used three.

--Lyle didn't accept maid service, yet the sheets on his bed look almost made, close to being undisturbed. Only the blanket on the bed is in disarray.

--Lyle removed the bed spread and placed it over the window at the front of the room, apparently as a means to keep out light.

--It was the end of summer, yet Lyle had no tan lines.

--Lyle would seem to have known a great deal about "best practices" for suspension hanging. And appears to have performed a little recognizance prior to going through with his suicide.

--At least at the time of his death, Lyle was a man of very, very few words. In fact, he didn't even leave a complete written sentence in his wake.

--Lyle's toxicology report at death stated he was sober, but we don't know what drugs were tested for.

--Lyle showed no obvious indications of disease at the time of his death, but again, we don't know what was tested.

--Lyle had the address of a cheap motel memorized (that specific Best Western, at that time, did not have a great reputation)--and it was right on the interstate--84, which is a major thoroughfare for getting from one part of the country to another.

--The way Lyle spelled out the address for that Best Western, is how that address is spelled on written material about the Motel, specifically writing S. Progressive Ave. rather than writing out South Progressive Ave.

(An appendectomy is often emergency surgery and is sighted as a type of surgery not uncommon for the homeless to receive.)

Some things to keep in mind, if a person doesn't sign a lease, or have a job that requires an SS#; if they never have a utility bill in their name, they are very, very unlikely to show up on any type of search, especially not a Google search. Lyle Stevik could be Lyle's actual name, but he survived in such a manner that his name never got into the usual databases one would search.

If Lyle had a juvenile record it would have been expunged when he turned 18 and his fingerprints would have been expunged as well. So he wouldn't show up in AFIS even if he'd been in jail early in his life. And I personally, don't think he's much older than 20.

(DNA wasn't really taken back then on arrest, so that would have been a moot issue.)


No one in 17 years has come forward to post a missing person's alert for Lyle. No one has come forward in 17 years claiming to have known this man--that right there speaks volumes.

 

[bears10]

All I have to offer at this time are anecdotes and empirical evidence, but I'm certain these boots only had a short run.

And when the description is given of Lyle, being dressed in all new clothing, that is just plain wrong.

Those boots were very worn at the heel. And why no curiosity as to why this guy wasn't wearing socks? That is odd. I know guys who didn't wear socks, because that was also a style at one point. But it was a little rebellious to wear boots and no socks. Or, Lyle just didn't have socks at the time he died.

The google searches I've performed weren't just for Timberlands, I was also on the search to find those specific boot soles. I couldn't even find those soles on any brand--and Timberlands and Docs often had a similar style of sole. The particular sole on Lyle's boot is unusual, period.

Here's a challenge: find that sole. Someone? If you think these boots are common, find a sole anything like the ones on Lyle's boots. Take the sole challenge!

I was looking something up on this case the other day, and I found no fewer than 20 pages of google links. And not ONE link, or article, not a single one, addressed the boots.

I do find it remarkable that this case could have been in grist of the internet mill for almost two decades and there is such a complete dearth of examination of the most tangible clues we have about this young man---What Lyle was wearing. These are tangibles, and I bet they are gone now.

This is one of those interesting cases to have followed for so long. Thousands of people pouring over this man's life and the most obvious evidence of who this guy is, was basically, just completely ignored.

Remarkable.

Relax. I didn't mean for my previous comment to come across snarky, so apologies if that's how you took it.

I never said I think the boots are SO common. I just don't know if they are SO uncommon. It was 2001, and if the soles are worn out, maybe they were purchased even in say 1999, so I would truly have no idea how to scour the internet for pictures of boot soles from over 15 years ago.

 

[htiff]

Relax. I didn't mean for my previous comment to come across snarky, so apologies if that's how you took it.

I never said I think the boots are SO common. I just don't know if they are SO uncommon. It was 2001, and if the soles are worn out, maybe they were purchased even in say 1999, so I would truly have no idea how to scour the internet for pictures of boot soles from over 15 years ago.

Your comment wasn't snarky at all. I was genuinely hoping someone would take the challenge.

If we're here to sleuth--then lets really do that. Otherwise, why bother?

 

[outofthedark]

I thought they looked a bit like the tackhead boots that Timberland also markets, except for the heels.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sorry to interrupt this thread folks, but it is urgent.

Tricia Griffiths and this website are very, very special.

Tricia has never asked members for financial help before, but now she desperately needs our help to keep Websleuths going.

Please make sure you read her message and provide whatever help you can:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?344923-IN-Abigail-Williams-13-amp-Liberty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-64&p=13539601#post13539601

:tyou:

 

[rosesfromangels]

The imgur photos were so haunting. He had movie star good looks, so sad. He looks like he is definitely of native descent to me. Lots of indian tribes in the area he was found, and further up in to BC Canada. A reservation is probably a good place to investigate.

 

[carbuff]

Re: the boots

He may have had them re-soled. It was a common thing to do with comfortable high-quality boots when they started to wear out.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

 

[bears10]

I thought they looked a bit like the tackhead boots that Timberland also markets, except for the heels.

They remind me of chukkas but with more lace holes. https://www.timberland.com/shop/mens-timberland-waterproof-chukka-boots-black-50059001

 

[dotr]

Maybe the boots are not authentic, but if they are real - maybe the product number can be retrieved and help lead to the location where they were sold. imo.
rbbm.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-Spot-Fake-Timberland-Shoes-/10000000178468103/g.html

[h=1]How to Spot Fake Timberland Shoes[/h]

[h=3]Look Inside of the Shoe[/h] One of the first things a consumer should do when attempting to verify a pair of Timberland shoes' authenticity is to look under the tongue of the shoe. The product number is printed underneath the tongue and sometimes even along the inside of the shoe. This product number should match the style of shoe that the product claims to be. If the product number does not match, then the shoe is a fake. For example, if a style of Timberland boots has a product number of 10061, then that number should be present underneath the tongue.

[h=3]Verify the Tag[/h] Another way to check the specifics when looking for authentic Timberland shoes is to check the tag attached to the shoelace eyelet. If there is a barcode on the tag, then the shoe is a fake. While Timberland does not ever print a barcode on the eyelet tags of their shoes, many fraudulent producers of Timberland shoes do.

 

[htiff]

Re: the boots

He may have had them re-soled. It was a common thing to do with comfortable high-quality boots when they started to wear out.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

I was wondering that same thing.

 

[htiff]

The imgur photos were so haunting. He had movie star good looks, so sad. He looks like he is definitely of native descent to me. Lots of indian tribes in the area he was found, and further up in to BC Canada. A reservation is probably a good place to investigate.

If my memory serves, Lane Youmans did contact one of the local tribes in the immediate vicinity, without luck. But I agree, he is distinctive looking.

 

[htiff]

I'm trying to figure out a way to capture Lyle's boots without the pic looking like they are on a dead man.

I think the only way to find out what boots these are is to see if there is some archivist at Timberland. There must be some record of what boots were made when, and what their features were.

(Well no luck there. Timberland brand was sold in 2011, so all earlier records are not kept by the current company.)

Just got to post pics of the boots and see if someone recognizes that particular boot. It is distinctive.

 

[Buttons]

I'm trying to figure out a way to capture Lyle's boots without the pic looking like they are on a dead man.

I think the only way to find out what boots these are is to see if there is some archivist at Timberland. There must be some record of what boots were made when, and what their features were.

(Well no luck there. Timberland brand was sold in 2011, so all earlier records are not kept by the current company.)

Just got to post pics of the boots and see if someone recognizes that particular boot. It is distinctive.

Forgive me if my post has deterred you from posting photos of Lyle's boots - while the photos are haunting, you are by all means free to post them.

I've always felt that Lyle's clothing, aside from the size of the clothing in comparison to his frame, was not distinctive or unusual at all, sadly. It's more of a mystery to me that he wasn't remembered by anyone that we know of so far (the bus drivers, for example) as he was someone that you would surely remember if you encountered or saw him.

That being said, not many people have been asked about him, have they? I suppose it would be difficult to know precisely who to ask when there's so little to go on. It's exasperating to think that there may be more than one someone out there who did notice him but never learned of his death and therefore never thought to come forward.

 

[htiff]

Forgive me if my post has deterred you from posting photos of Lyle's boots - while the photos are haunting, you are by all means free to post them.

I've always felt that Lyle's clothing, aside from the size of the clothing in comparison to his frame, was not distinctive or unusual at all, sadly. It's more of a mystery to me that he wasn't remembered by anyone that we know of so far (the bus drivers, for example) as he was someone that you would surely remember if you encountered or saw him.

That being said, not many people have been asked about him, have they? I suppose it would be difficult to know precisely who to ask when there's so little to go on. It's exasperating to think that there may be more than one someone out there who did notice him but never learned of his death and therefore never thought to come forward.

No your post didn't deter me at all. Truly the outpouring of interest into this man's life is inspiring.

And I think the choices made in trying to find out who this guy was were good. Lane Youmans is amazing. He lifted this young man out of obscurity, and in some ways Lyle's story has stayed as relevant, if not more so, than cases of unsolved murders, because of the idiosyncrasies of it.

We may never find out who Lyle is, because he didn't want us to. And there may be someone out there who recognizes him, but who would like to keep this information private.

I am still working on those boots, but that can be my own personal geek-quest.

I do think the chances are great that Lyle was a wanderer of sorts. Probably he was technically homeless, but he may have had "homes" that he stayed in for a time. But I think if he had held a lease, or paid bills, had a career that required a degree, etc. even if the name given on that sheet was an alias, there would be someone out there who recognized him, by now.

And because I've known a lot of kids who were homeless and lost, in the way I imagine Lyle may have been, this adds a whole new dimension to him, for me. If I'd actually seen his clothes and boots, the way they appear in those pictures, I would have come to this conclusion sooner. But that doesn't mean it would have mattered.

Lyle may be as clever as everyone believes him to be. And the last laugh is on us.

On the other hand, if there is a conscience after death, maybe this was a gift. Maybe somewhere, out there in the universe, he's out there looking down on all this sound and fury surrounding his life, and smiling.

 

[htiff]

I thought they looked a bit like the tackhead boots that Timberland also markets, except for the heels.

Tiimberland advertised this size boot has having 7 eyes, for laces (as opposed to Doc Marten's 8--maybe a copyright/trademark issue)

Lyle's boots were unusual in that they had four regular shoelace eyes at the bottom, and 3 metal half/eyelets at the ankle.

But the general style you suggest, seems to match.

In the '80s Timberland came out with over 500 models. So they may have been experimenting in those years, and later, and perhaps many models only enjoyed a very short run.



Premium Timberland Rag and Bone Tackhead Boat Chukka Boots Excellent Cond 12 EUC

https://www.ebay.com/i/282595997054?chn=ps&dispItem=1