WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #9

[Nova]

Not sure where you're getting your information, but that is absolutely untrue. Rudy's sentence was not reduced because he apologized.

I believe you are right, otto, but there have been numerous media reports that referred to the "apology."

 

[Nova]

Amanda and Raffaele had no reason to believe that Rudy had been detained by police for any reason, and did not know that they had his fingerprints. Knox and Sollecito wanted to stage the scene such that it appeared that a stranger broke in through Filomina's window. In theory, if Rudy had never been detained in the past, and since he was in Germany after the murder, evidence would not have easily led to Rudy.

Ah, yes, the "Master Criminal" theory. I don't see the evidence that AK or RS had the experience (or mental wherewithal that night) for that sort of reasoning.

ETA, otto, yesterday you made much of how AK supposedly spoke no English and RS spoke no Italian and therefore their relationship was based only in sex and violence. Yet somehow you also have AK learning countless details about RG's past and his relationship with LE--or you have RS learning this and somehow communicating it to AK as part of their conspiracy.

Surely you can see the inconsistency.

 

[otto]

That's an interesting question. Could MK's door be locked and then pulled closed from the outside? I've never heard this discussed before the recent posts on the subject.

If it were relatively simple to accomplish, locking the door might be like covering the body with a duvet: a hurried attempt to cover the horror out of regret, compassion, fear of discovery, whatever...

Meredith's bedroom door is a double key lock ... needs a key to lock it from the hallway.

 

[SMK]

Still OT, but in fairness, white people DO use terms like Irish-American, Italian-American, Jewish-American, etc. Jesse Jackson proposed African-American as an alternative to black in order to get the focus off skin color and instead to acknowledge the very different cultural history of Africans in the New World.

The Reverend Jackson is not king, not even of black people--and wasn't_me doesn't not have to agree with him, of course. With her, I will do my best to use "black" and "white" (despite the limitations of those terms).

What's interesting about these threads, I find, is that although the case principals refer to Africans rather readily, posters here have not found it necessary to make such distinctions EXCEPT with regard to whether an African hair was found that pointed ILE in a certain direction. Otherwise, few references to PL or RG mention race.

So maybe we're making a little progress...

Yes, it would seem so. Yes, I always have referred to myself proudly as an "Italian-American" but perhaps it is time to put such things behind us. :seeya:

 

[otto]

I don't know. But in my experience, drugs that interfere with one's memory also tend to interfere with one's ability to plan and to respond logically. So I doubt AK and RS could simply "forget" forming a conspiracy to murder with someone they barely knew and then cleaning up after the crime.

According to Dempsey, Raffaele's drug experience included acid and cocaine. It's possible that the pair were experimenting with either of these drugs on the night of the murder. All they have admitted to is drinking and using drugs (hashish) on the night of the murder.

 

[SMK]

Meredith's bedroom door is a double key lock ... needs a key to lock it from the hallway.

Are you saying that Meredith's bedroom door is NOT the kind which can be locked from the inside, and then you shut the door behind you? Where is a link to show it must be locked from outside with a key. And then how, pray, did they think Meredith had locked it from within? :waitasec:

 

[otto]

Ah, yes, the "Master Criminal" theory. I don't see the evidence that AK or RS had the experience (or mental wherewithal that night) for that sort of reasoning.

ETA, otto, yesterday you made much of how AK supposedly spoke no English and RS spoke no Italian and therefore their relationship was based only in sex and violence. Yet somehow you also have AK learning countless details about RG's past and his relationship with LE--or you have RS learning this and somehow communicating it to AK as part of their conspiracy.

Surely you can see the inconsistency.

Not true. I have said that Amanda did not know that Rudy's finger prints were taken by police ... I have not said that Amanda knew "countless details about Rudy's past".

Surely you can see that what you are saying is not based on what I have written.

 

[otto]

Are you saying that Meredith's bedroom door is NOT the kind which can be locked from the inside, and then you shut the door behind you? Where is a link to show it must be locked from outside with a key. And then how, pray, did they think Meredith had locked it from within? :waitasec:

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=1280

 

[OldSteve]

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=1280

I cannot tell how the lock works from the picture you linked to...

 

[otto]

I believe you are right, otto, but there have been numerous media reports that referred to the "apology."

Ample information was discussed and posted on this forum citing Italian law and the difference between a fast track trial and a full trial. Rudy opted for the fast track because he was afraid that AK and RS would blame him entirely for the murder. AK and RS took their chances with the jury.

Conspiracy theorists believe that Rudy was given a reduced sentence because he apologized as it helps paint Amanda as a poor little victim of the mean Italians. The fact is that AK, RS, and RG had legal options ... RG was the only defendant that acknowledge participation in the murder, opted for the fast track, and received the required 1/3 reduction of sentence at the end of all appeals.

 

[otto]

I cannot tell how the lock works from the picture you linked to...

Keep scrolling through the images on that link ... there are several photos showing the both sides of the door handle. Here's the hallway side of the door where you can see a key is required to lock the door.

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=1268

 

[Nova]

"No one I can think of makes this claim except for you."

That sounds like an attempt to discredit anything I have to contribute to this discussion ... not nice.

I seem to recall Malkmus posted information about the 11:30 start time, 12:30 interpreter time, and 1:45 accusation time (accompanied by copies of the statements 1:45 and 5:45) a long time ago. Perhaps Malkmus can comment.

I said nothing that was intended to discredit everything you contribute. On the contrary, I regularly cite you along with Allusonz and Malkmus as the posters most knowledgeable about this case.

What I was referring to was your repeated insistence that "nothing happened" between 11:30 when AK's interrogation began and 12:30 when the English-speaking interrogator was brought it.

Once again, AK spoke some Italian but wasn't fluent. She tried to participate in an Italian-language interrogation for an hour, a period that must have been incredibly stressful and confusing for her. But it isn't true she understood nothing she was asked; she herself says she tried to explain the message she got from PL and eventually gave up and handed her phone to the interrogators.

At that point, the interrogators misinterpreted her reply to PL and got very excited. Whether because they thought they had a breakthrough or because everyone began speaking faster, it was decided an English translator was needed. Unfortunately for AK, what she got was not an English translator but an English-speaking interrogator.

But back to you: you prefer to claim that no communication was possible between 11:30 and 12:30 because that means AK caved to pressure in only one hour instead of two. You may look back at previous threads and see where you invented this distinction.

NOBODY ELSE says AK understood nothing in that first hour, just that her understanding was insufficient to keep up with a mass interrogation.

 

[SMK]

I cannot tell how the lock works from the picture you linked to...

nor can I...

 

[SMK]

Keep scrolling through the images on that link ... there are several photos showing the both sides of the door handle. Here's the hallway side of the door where you can see a key is required to lock the door.

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=1268

Well, from what I can see, with that kind of handle, it is not a simple door where you could turn the lock, and close it behind you, locked. But I don't see evidence of a keyhole. You mean Meredith would have to use a key from inside if she wanted to close it? And whoever locked it from the outside, needed a key as well? and where was/is this key???

 

[Nova]

Meredith's bedroom door is a double key lock ... needs a key to lock it from the hallway.

But it can be locked from the outside, yes? We don't have to assume anybody crawled out through her window.

Do you know if that key was ever found? I'm just curious whether you know off the top of your head. Please don't feel you need to make a research project out of the subject.

 

[Nova]

Yes, it would seem so. Yes, I always have referred to myself proudly as an "Italian-American" but perhaps it is time to put such things behind us. :seeya:

I think it depends on context. Most of the time it isn't necessary to qualify "American." But if one is discussing differing ethnic traditions, then the "hyphenated" terms become useful.

 

[Nova]

According to Dempsey, Raffaele's drug experience included acid and cocaine. It's possible that the pair were experimenting with either of these drugs on the night of the murder. All they have admitted to is drinking and using drugs (hashish) on the night of the murder.

I've never heard of acid making one homicidal, at least not since the Manson Family (and that was a unique group dynamic).

Cocaine can increase aggression, of course, but usually in habitual users, not during casual experimentation.

(For the record, I have no personal experience with the former and only brief experience with the latter--30 years ago.)

 

[otto]

I said nothing that was intended to discredit everything you contribute. On the contrary, I regularly cite you along with Allusonz and Malkmus as the posters most knowledgeable about this case.

What I was referring to was your repeated insistence that "nothing happened" between 11:30 when AK's interrogation began and 12:30 when the English-speaking interrogator was brought it.

Once again, AK spoke some Italian but wasn't fluent. She tried to participate in an Italian-language interrogation for an hour, a period that must have been incredibly stressful and confusing for her. But it isn't true she understood nothing she was asked; she herself says she tried to explain the message she got from PL and eventually gave up and handed her phone to the interrogators.

At that point, the interrogators misinterpreted her reply to PL and got very excited. Whether because they thought they had a breakthrough or because everyone began speaking faster, it was decided an English translator was needed. Unfortunately for AK, what she got was not an English translator but an English-speaking interrogator.

But back to you: you prefer to claim that no communication was possible between 11:30 and 12:30 because that means AK caved to pressure in only one hour instead of two. You may look back at previous threads and see where you invented this distinction.

NOBODY ELSE says AK understood nothing in that first hour, just that her understanding was insufficient to keep up with a mass interrogation.

Dempsey's book costs $7.99, and it's a quick read. It will help with understanding the family's perspective of the facts. Dempsey may be playing a bit with "Amanda the victim" when she claims that Amanda did not know enough Italian to do anything more than order pizza, but that is her position on Amanda's knowledge of Italian. I decided that since there is automatic skepticism of information coming out of the court, perhaps information coming from people that believe Amanda is a victim would be taken seriously. It seems that is also viewed with skepticism if the facts are unfavorable to Knox. The bottom line is that there are many facts that are unfavorable to Knox. Some people seem to have a bottomless pit of explanations for everything she did ... others look at is as problematic for the innocence argument.

The interpreter that arrived at 12:30 was not an interrogator. She was hauled out of bed to interpret, and the family's position is that she was not a proper interpreter. Regardless, Amanda signed two statements confirming what she said during her questioning as a witness, and as a suspect. She then reiterated her statement a day later.

 

[otto]

nor can I...

Is there any reason for not scrolling through the 10 or 12 photos of the door handle depicting both the inside and outside of the door?

Yes, a key was needed to lock it from the inside and the outside of the room ... the photos of the actual door demonstrate this.

 

[Nova]

Not true. I have said that Amanda did not know that Rudy's finger prints were taken by police ... I have not said that Amanda knew "countless details about Rudy's past".

Surely you can see that what you are saying is not based on what I have written.

Perhaps I went overboard with the word "countless". My bad. But you have mentioned several details about RG that AK "might have" known, yet at other times you claim she was unable to understand any Italian.

In what language do you imagine she was grilling RG on his criminal history?